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Thread: Smoke diver

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Heart and "want to" is very important...but if one wants to challenge such a class, being in good physical condition is a damned good ideal.
    Indeed. My point was that you do not have to be running 4-5 minute miles and benching 350. Even in supreme shape, without heart and want to you will fail or quit by the 2nd or 3rd day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcl312 View Post
    We start out with class room stuff, safety lectures, how to don and doff gear, ect. Gradually get into field evolutions starting with raising ladders, dragging hose ect. It is 120 hours and our students don't touch SCBA until at least 20 hours into program. When they leave I feel they are proficient in the use of SCBA but not to the level of the smoke divers classes described here.
    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a
    You will learn absolutely nothing about firefighting, but will learn volumes about yourself. The firefighting aspect you should know before you get there. You should already know how to operate the handline and the SCBA. What you will learn is that there is nothing you cannot do while wearing an SCBA as long as you DO NOT QUIT!!
    What they said. Smoke Divers != FF1
    Smoke Divers doesn't teach you any new FF tactics.. but its not supposed to. It puts you in a position to know more about yourself, your body, and your air consumption. How far can you go when pushed, how long can it last when pushed? It takes the basics you learned in FF1 and says "Ok, now do it while stressed". It was exhausting, but I loved every second of it. (except the puking in the mask part.. that I could do without).
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Indeed. My point was that you do not have to be running 4-5 minute miles and benching 350. Even in supreme shape, without heart and want to you will fail or quit by the 2nd or 3rd day.
    When I took it in Burlington Cnty I saw a guy as you describe bonk on the 2nd night, never to return. Meanwhile the 100lb soaking-wet skinny kid pushed his heart out through his nose but completed the course. I think both of them learned something from the experience, as did their partners.
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    Whoa seems like Pierce is catching alot of flack. I don't really believe him either because my first week of "FF1 school" also referred to as RECRUIT school was mostly classroom. Also I am right there with TnNozzleman because I have experienced the hell he speaks of!! I am also happy to say that I am one of the elite few to complete the course. TN has 120,000 plus firefighters and only 3,000 have completed the course, so it is pretty tough. But from what I hear Florida and Georgia have the toughest classes.

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    Whats the course give you? Do you get paid more? Or is it just bragging rights?

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    What they said. Smoke Divers != FF1
    Smoke Divers doesn't teach you any new FF tactics.. but its not supposed to. It puts you in a position to know more about yourself, your body, and your air consumption. How far can you go when pushed, how long can it last when pushed? It takes the basics you learned in FF1 and says "Ok, now do it while stressed". It was exhausting, but I loved every second of it. (except the puking in the mask part.. that I could do without).
    The "smoke divers" course material is the same stuff every new firefighter ought to get. How is it that FF1 courses can tell a firefighter that they have enough training to work in a burning building without giving them the proper mask confidence training? Sort of rhetorical, as I know we did it for years up in the furthest NE state. Too bad so many FF 1+2 programs add more EMS, first aid, driving, pumping, haz-mat, WMD and other none essential basics and then argue they don't have enough time to put newbies through a rigorous SCBA confidence program. A firefighter who has not been pushed to the point of near breaking or has not "died" (run out of air) in an SCBA drill is likely not ready for a working fire unless you have a great OJT system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MassFireGuy View Post
    Whats the course give you? Do you get paid more? Or is it just bragging rights?
    Personally, I do not agree with it, but there is at least one department in Mississippi that requires it for promotion.

    As far as bragging rights, maybe for some, but for me it was more of a personal challenge. As stated, you are only going to learn about your extending your personal limits while in the confines of turnouts and SCBA. It will not make you better than anyone, but better prepared.

    The best thing about the class is that it has yet to fall victim to political correctness or influence. You meet the goals or you fail, period.
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 06-26-2008 at 01:57 AM.
    RK
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    I agree with what was said you will learn alot of about yourself and increase your confidence while being in your airpack. You will learn who many breaths you can get when you have no air left. Conserving your air better, etc...

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    There are many different smoke diver programs out there. I agree with the person above that says mississippi's program is one of the toughest. MS smoke diver is not just whether you can do skills or not... it's about doing the skills over and over until the instructors are satisfied you have it perfected. They push you absolutly as far as you can go then they see what kind of decision making abilities you have. If you want to try MS's program you better be in the best shape of your life and have a good head on your shoulders or you will regret it (making about 12 runs in an afternoon). haha By the way MS smoke diver has a song thats pretty funny by... Dennis Beyer?

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    Default Smoke Diver Offshore

    Theres a course taught for the offshore/marine industry called Smoke Divers. Its more specific on going into involved spaces on offshore rigs, ships etc. Mostly concerning fighting B & C class fires and rescue in engine rooms, tanks, holds, storage areas. It was being taught at Texas A&M in US, as well as Australia and Norway. Evidently its a pretty tough and stringent course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MassFireGuy View Post
    Whats the course give you? Do you get paid more? Or is it just bragging rights?
    I just read all the threads on the Smoke Diver Program questions. I went through the Smoke Divers Program in Georgia in 1984. The program was and in my opinion still is one of the best programs out there. Does it teach fire fighting techniques? No it does not. But it is a great tool for the fire fighter who wants to be all he/she can be. Wearing the blue and yellow rocker on your uniform stated to all that you had indeed went through hell. There was a sense of respect given to those who completed the course. If you look around in different departments in Georgia you will see that most of the fire officers from LT. to Fire Chief wear the rocker. What does this tell you? It tells you while you do not receive any additional money for attending the course, you do stand and equal or better chance of getting promoted up the ranks quicker. It tells that customer you are working for that you will do everything in your power to go in and get their son or daughter, dog or cat, that you have been pushed to you limits and beyond, and you can take it.
    FIDO...............

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    I have thought about trying the course here in Ga. But the G.P.S.T.C requires that you stay on site for the whole week so you can be looked after by medical staff..... proper fluid intake, diet and so on. They had a guy die there last year from a M.I, I don't know if he was takeing the diver class or something else. But they have gotten real tight on student health and wellfare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke245 View Post
    It tells that customer you are working for that you will do everything in your power to go in and get their son or daughter, dog or cat, that you have been pushed to you limits and beyond, and you can take it.
    FIDO...............
    Yeah, I doubt that...John Q. Public isn't going to know (nor likely care) what that blue and yellow rocker on your uniform means. When their house is burning they're going to be yelling about why'd you take so f'ing long to get there, not saying "Oh, thank God, he's a certified Smoke Diver, everything's going to be alright now!"

    Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's an excellent class (I don't know anyone who's been through it), and within the fire service there should be a deal of respect afforded to those who complete it, but Joe Citizen could really give a crap....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itshotinhere View Post
    I have thought about trying the course here in Ga. But the G.P.S.T.C requires that you stay on site for the whole week so you can be looked after by medical staff..... proper fluid intake, diet and so on. They had a guy die there last year from a M.I, I don't know if he was takeing the diver class or something else. But they have gotten real tight on student health and wellfare
    That incident was not during Smoke Divers. It occurred in a Basic Firefighter course.
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmleblanc View Post

    Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's an excellent class (I don't know anyone who's been through it), and within the fire service there should be a deal of respect afforded to those who complete it, but Joe Citizen could really give a crap....
    And to be absolutly honest, other members of the fire service dont either. I am not knocking Smoke Diver is any way, I hope to one day do it myself. But the face is, like mentioned earlier, it is more of a personal achievement deal. You do it to learn about yourself, not to walk around telling everyone you are a Smoke Diver.

    And I dont know where the info about most upper ranks of the fire service in GA having Smoke Diver rocker patches came from. I train with different guys from all over the state, and very few of them are Smoke Divers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    And to be absolutly honest, other members of the fire service dont either. I am not knocking Smoke Diver is any way, I hope to one day do it myself. But the face is, like mentioned earlier, it is more of a personal achievement deal. You do it to learn about yourself, not to walk around telling everyone you are a Smoke Diver.

    And I dont know where the info about most upper ranks of the fire service in GA having Smoke Diver rocker patches came from. I train with different guys from all over the state, and very few of them are Smoke Divers.
    Thanks for clarifying that... it sounds like something you'd see on a t-shirt or a bumper sticker.

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    the following is the link to the GA Smoke Diver web site.
    http://georgiasmokediver.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Thanks for clarifying that... it sounds like something you'd see on a t-shirt or a bumper sticker.
    Our Smoke Divers instructor had Tshirts made up. I'm not ashamed to admit I bought one. It's like a litmus test. If the shirt is too tattered to wear, it's time to take the class again.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
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