1. #1
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    Default Nfpa Scba Brackets In Our New Engine

    My Department recently took delivery of an E-one which is outfitted with the "911 seats" that have NFPA COMPLIENT CYLINDER BRACKETS. These brackets release the scba when the user pulls a rip cord. The bracket uses a webbing that stretches over the backplate and clips into a fastener on the back of the seat frame. The webbing needs to pass between your coat and the backplate as you exit your seat. Thus you can not, under the MFG recomondations, tighten any of the scba straps until you get out of the seat. By far this is the worse user freindly item on our new engine.
    Anyone here know of a NFPA complient bracket that works better than these?

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    Piney Power
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    Our tender/pumper, a 2005 Seagrave, just has jumpseats that have a strap around the entire SCBA setup and clips in to hold it on the bracket. You just have to pull a string and the entire setup comes loose and you are able to do whatever you need to from there. We have an enclosed crew cab and since it was made around 2005 I would think that they are NFPA compliant as of recent unless they changed it from 2005 to now.
    Pinewald Pioneer Vol. Fire Co. No. 1 Sta. 20
    "Piney Power"

    Berkeley Emergency Response Team (B.E.R.T./Haz-Mat/WMD/CBRNE) Station 85
    Berkeley Township, New Jersey 08721

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    Just wait until you are seated with the SCBA straps around your arms, you pull the string...and you have the entire string in your hand...lots of fun then.

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    Piney Power
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    Hmm...well, we are spec'ing a new engine for maybe in 2 years so we'll see what they put in it. I hope that's not what is. I'd hate to be doing that. Having to sit and not be able to secure the straps until you have to get up.
    Pinewald Pioneer Vol. Fire Co. No. 1 Sta. 20
    "Piney Power"

    Berkeley Emergency Response Team (B.E.R.T./Haz-Mat/WMD/CBRNE) Station 85
    Berkeley Township, New Jersey 08721

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    I always thought these straps were used to secure UN-used SCBAs that are in the cab. No? If your putting it on, its being used.

    Do what we do...Pull the cord, sit down, put SCBA on. Now the SCBA is secured...to you.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

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    ALL NFPA compliant SCBA brackets that I have seen SUCK! They are so bad that I would actually rather put the SCBA's back in the compartments and just put it on when I get there.

    NFPA standards go too far in many instances and this is a perfect example.
    RK
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    Our new truck is being equipped with the newer style that uses a mechanical system that holds the bottle vertical while a ring swings down over the top of the cylinder. Upon release of the seat handle the top ring pops up and the SCBA can be pulled forward and out, no strings or materials between the pack and your back.

    H.O. Bostrom Firefighter seat:

    http://www.hobostrom.com/en/fire/fr_..._SecureAll.asp
    Pierce also has a similar mechanical seat mount that eliminates these issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Our new truck is being equipped with the newer style that uses a mechanical system that holds the bottle vertical while a ring swings down over the top of the cylinder. Upon release of the seat handle the top ring pops up and the SCBA can be pulled forward and out, no strings or materials between the pack and your back.

    H.O. Bostrom Firefighter seat:

    http://www.hobostrom.com/en/fire/fr_..._SecureAll.asp
    Pierce also has a similar mechanical seat mount that eliminates these issues.
    While I've spent the better chunk of my time dealing with Zico and their release system, I was getting mighty tired of their equipment just falling apart. The system is great.... until first tug.

    However not to discredit them they have the mechanical style available too.

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    Default thanks for the replies

    Glad to hee the rest of the world is dealing with the maddness of the almighty NFPA, as we are. Many here are working around the problem here but I would like to offer a solution. Thanks for the input on the H.O. site and I'll look into the Zico system as well.
    JD
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    Got a chance to see the Bostrom seats at Harrisburg. Nice looking setup and pretty stoutly built. I like the fact that you don't have to order a different bracket depending on the bottle size. It's one setup that is adjustable for whatever height and diameter bottles you run. It's also able to be retrofit to your prior Tanker model SCBA seats. The problem is that the price is a bit hard to swallow. I think that its about 600 for the retrofit and over 1000 for a whole seat. (But dont quote me on that .)

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    Hey imagine that, the NFPA coming up with something to inhibit firefighting operations and cost more money.
    BE A BACKBONE - NOT A JAWBONE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ha11igan View Post
    Hey imagine that, the NFPA coming up with something to inhibit firefighting operations and cost more money.
    Tell me how does this inhibit firefighting ops.....?

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    Pull the cord, sit down, put SCBA on
    Same here. Not a big deal.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    I always thought these straps were used to secure UN-used SCBAs that are in the cab. No? If your putting it on, its being used.

    Do what we do...Pull the cord, sit down, put SCBA on. Now the SCBA is secured...to you.
    I can only say in response to this that if you pull the cord to release the strap on the scba brackets we have, without being seated, the scba will fall out of the seat. The bracket is nothing more than a rounded V that the scba rests against, the strap holds it against the V. If that is what they have it isn;t as simple as pulling the strap sitting down and putting the scba on.

    These brackest suck big time and I am sure many FD's have done what we did to modify them.

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    As said before pull the cord then sit down. It sucks but if involved in a apparatus mva atleast the pack will not go flying around (hopefully). Sometimes it's just as easy to put the pack on just before you step off the truck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I can only say in response to this that if you pull the cord to release the strap on the scba brackets we have, without being seated, the scba will fall out of the seat. The bracket is nothing more than a rounded V that the scba rests against, the strap holds it against the V. If that is what they have it isn;t as simple as pulling the strap sitting down and putting the scba on.

    These brackest suck big time and I am sure many FD's have done what we did to modify them.
    These are the newer NFPA compliant type that ensures the pack must be secured to ride down the road when no one is in the seat. Our tower has these and they are a PITA. Like I said, the new mechanical fit type look like the bes solution to flying object and user friendliness.

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    we have brackets that are a 3/4 circle with the straps to hold the SCBAs in place. For the most part the SCBA is secured with this strap unless someone is riding in this seat, in which case the strap is released at the start of shift and put back in place at the end. (we are a combination department so there is anywhere from 2-6 people per engine depending on the day and time)

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    Zico catalog shows several choices in mechanical hold brackets (1045). Options available hold the cylinder from sides or from top/bottom.

    Flamefighter also has a retro fit kit to eliminate the straps design.

    I recently drove a new E-One pumper that had the Bostrom units. Very slick, only had to move the release handle (on seat between leg) up about 1" to release.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I can only say in response to this that if you pull the cord to release the strap on the scba brackets we have, without being seated, the scba will fall out of the seat. The bracket is nothing more than a rounded V that the scba rests against, the strap holds it against the V. If that is what they have it isn;t as simple as pulling the strap sitting down and putting the scba on.

    These brackest suck big time and I am sure many FD's have done what we did to modify them.

    Hmmm...Ours are just like the old type of bracket, just that they have a strap that goes over the pack with a release and pull cord. Without the strap, they stay in place just like the old ones. The strap serves no purpose other then to hold the pack in place during rapid deceleration.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    Hmmm...Ours are just like the old type of bracket, just that they have a strap that goes over the pack with a release and pull cord. Without the strap, they stay in place just like the old ones. The strap serves no purpose other then to hold the pack in place during rapid deceleration.
    The newer NFPA compliant brackets no longer have the "clips" the bottle snaps into. Now, as FYREDUP notes, the bottle is, for lack of better terms, leaned against the "Vee" shaped brackets and held in place by the strap. Of course you could just by the high cycle bottle clips of old and change out the two bolts per bracket...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    The newer NFPA compliant brackets no longer have the "clips" the bottle snaps into. Now, as FYREDUP notes, the bottle is, for lack of better terms, leaned against the "Vee" shaped brackets and held in place by the strap. Of course you could just by the high cycle bottle clips of old and change out the two bolts per bracket...
    We replaced on set of the new brackets with new "older" style brackets. Our SOG says anytime the seat is unoccupied the strap must be inplace. If you will don scba the strap may be released before you sit down.

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    Edge317,see post #3 for the answer to your query. When the string pulls out and the pack DOES NOT release,trust me your operations WILL be inhibited.As RFD states Bostrom has a better idea,and we're using it. T.C.

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    I still don't see how it effects operations. I haven't used the brackets, you have so I'll just take it as that. When do you pull the cord once your seated or when your on scene? In the event that it doesn't release when the cord is pulled is it difficult to manually release it when you are out of the SCBA?

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    2 of our E-ONE engines are 96 models with the 911 seats. Ours have the older spring clamps to where all you have to do is sit down, strap up and pull the pack out...no strings attached. The packs don't move as the clamps are spring loaded and they have worked well for many years. Only drawback is that they sit pretty low in the seats and if you are tall, its a PITA to get it on and be ready when you step out of the truck.

  25. #25
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    Thumbs up

    We started using the inertia-lock seats from pierce, with a clamp on the upper middle of the seat that clamshells closed around the bottle as you press it in. Step out of it, and it opens... get into a wreck and the lock drops shut and keeps you in the seat- presumably. Fortunately we've not yet had to put that one to the test.

    We've done some dorking around with it and when those things are locked, they're locked- but they won't lock no matter how hard you pull on the bottle / BA harness. The inertia mechanism is unrelated to the bottle and operates independently- still on the seat... just not on the bottle. Properly adjusted, the seats hold the bottles nicely when not in use, and when in use have only caused one "missfire" which happened before the user got in the truck. A quick scan on the indicator that sits slightly behind the seat would resolve that (we're still learning the seats finer points.) It takes some adjustment but once they're dialed in they work pretty well.

    There is another one out there that has sort of an "ejection seat" style handle between your legs on the front of the seat. I can't remember who makes it but it looks slick. Anyone used those?

    As for those other ones, I do the same thing. We've got our original stock seats in one of our other pumps- at least we did up until recently when we retrofitted in some with just a bracket holder with no safety attachment. Those are my favourite- because you're not sitting so far forward in the seats. I'm finding a lot of these seats are so cramped up they really push you forward on the "seat" portion and makes it almost impossible to sit properly in them... especially in the officer's seat.
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