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  1. #1
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    Default Anyone know any regs on this?

    I am a member of an industrial emergency response team. The company really does not like to acknowledge us as firefighters, does not buy us any firefighting equipment or PPE (turnout gear). Our turnout gear is years old and out of NFPA spec. Now they are making a Fire Extinguisher Class for the plant employees that any of us that are firefighter certified (from our volunteer departments as the company will not pay for us to attend any fire training) will be required to teach. Now I just found out that will include a live fire evolution where they put wood in a 55gal drum and light it on fire for the employees to extinguish. I am not OK with it as they will not acknowledge and equip us properly as firefighters but want us to teach a live fire evolution. I am also only 1 of 2 people on the team that is a state certified fire instructor (once again paid for by my volunteer dept not my paid one). I am looking for any help or suggestions on what to do.


  2. #2
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdw930 View Post
    I am a member of an industrial emergency response team. The company really does not like to acknowledge us as firefighters, does not buy us any firefighting equipment or PPE (turnout gear). Our turnout gear is years old and out of NFPA spec. Now they are making a Fire Extinguisher Class for the plant employees that any of us that are firefighter certified (from our volunteer departments as the company will not pay for us to attend any fire training) will be required to teach. Now I just found out that will include a live fire evolution where they put wood in a 55gal drum and light it on fire for the employees to extinguish. I am not OK with it as they will not acknowledge and equip us properly as firefighters but want us to teach a live fire evolution. I am also only 1 of 2 people on the team that is a state certified fire instructor (once again paid for by my volunteer dept not my paid one). I am looking for any help or suggestions on what to do.
    I would look for state law to cover this...

    In NJ it could be handled many different ways (open burning, air pollution regs, etc), but it is surely illegal as you describe it.

    They call it a 55 gallon drum, I call it a single chamber incinerator.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
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    You are kind of over a barrel buddy.

    As an industrial fire company, that is a private company. Meaning they do not have to abide by the rules and regulations of the state or NFPA or have the responsibilities that a municipal fire compay does. There are certain requirements and laws that a government has to adhere to. A private company does not have to abide by the same regulations. Technically, depending on what state you are from, all they have to abide by is the OSHA regulations for protective equipment.

    Now you could be compared to an "industry standard" such as "this is what the neighboring departments are doing, why aren't we?" That might be some ammunition for you.

    Also if a business does not want to pay their employees for something, they don't have to. If there was a union contract, they would have to abide by the contract for payment rules. Otherwise, you are owned by the company.
    Jason Knecht
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    Default be careful

    Id be very careful being you are an NJ Instructor, If someone gets hurt its gonna be your ***. I suggest you call the Division of Fire Safety and explain this situation to them and ask them what you should do. And dont beleive just because its private industry that NFPA regs dont matter, again if someone gets hurt some lawyer is gonna be throwing those minimal standards in your face

  5. #5
    CFSI/CFSII/CFEI sepalmer's Avatar
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    Default OSHA is not a small town in Wisconsin.

    OSHA 1910.156 Covers fire Brigades and 1910.157 Covers Portable fire extinguishers. This may give you some answers to your questions. You can look both up on the web.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    As an industrial fire company, that is a private company. Meaning they do not have to abide by the rules and regulations of the state or NFPA or have the responsibilities that a municipal fire compay does. There are certain requirements and laws that a government has to adhere to. A private company does not have to abide by the same regulations. Technically, depending on what state you are from, all they have to abide by is the OSHA regulations for protective equipment.
    This is not always true. Some state regs include industrial fire brigades, some laws like our open burning and pollution laws do relate to private industry, and then some laws don't differentiate.

    It depends on the state.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  7. #7
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    As an "Emergency Response Team" for this company, what do they expect you to do? Is there some kind of job description or anything? Do they provide you the PPE/bunker gear?

    Not that I'm an expert in this kind of thing, but I think the above factors are going to play into what you can do about your situation. If they require you to perform firefighting duties, they should be required by OSHA to provide you appropriate training, PPE, and testing of that PPE. If they don't require you to fight fires, you may be putting your butt on the line if you do and get hurt.

    The same thing should apply if you're required to assist in medical or trauma incidents.

    I'd start with finding out what's required of you as a member of this team and what, if any, kind of procedures they have. From there, compare the requirements with what OSHA mandates (don't stop with the federal OSHA, check with your state regulations as well). I think what you'll find is a lot of cross-referencing with NFPA.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Clearly, OSHA regulations cover this. I would check with them first. Also, I would believe that you would need to be a certified trainer to do any training. But I am unsure about that. Your first stop should be a call to your local OSHA office.

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