1. #1
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    Default Ward "No Smoke" vs "Smoke Blotter"

    While pursuing a sole source purchase of several Ward No Smoke diesel exhaust control systems, we were made aware of a competitorís product called the "Smoke Blotter Phantom Switch Engine Emission Control System" which is under the Magnegrip Group. Both systems are truck mounted exhaust control systems that eliminate the need for hoses in the bay.

    Does anyone have any experience with the "Smoke Blotter" system? The Ward system seems to be popular and there are positive testimonials, but we have never heard of the other system.

    Any help would be nice.

    Thanks,

    Mike Linkins
    Deputy Chief
    Polk County (FL) Fire Rescue

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    A fire dept that is trully concious of it's Fire Fighters health, would get a Plymovent or other type of exhuast evacuation system.

    Both the No Smoke and Smoke Blotter, releases hazardous fumes, that the system does not catch. Therefore, still a danger to your people in the station.

    The plymovent is a one person user. Only when your backing into your station, does it require one person to hook it up. When leaving, it has a switch on the upper rail, that automatically releases, so you can make a run, with all hands on board, and no delay.

    We used to have the No Smoke system, and got rid of it. It was just too expensive replacing the catalyst boxes. As well, as other problems that crept up having it on the rigs.

    Just my 2 cents.

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    Default I must Disagree

    I would much prefer the No Smoke System to the hoses no matter who's it is. We run 3 people on an engine company besides not being NFPA compliant We usually have 1 guy in the street and the third person is spotting the driver as per normal safety standards. I am not 100% sure but I do belive that the No Smoke is close to having 2010 emissions cleanliness with thier current units. I don't want to see what the hose systems will look like when a new 2007 emissions unit regenerates. Okay I do want to see how hoses look in a puddle on the floor of someone's station.

    To say nothing of hoses not detaching and causing lots of damage in the stations.

    No I do not sell No Smoke Systems
    Fyrtrks

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    To be honest, I hate all this fume stuff. We looked at Ward and didn't like the extra crap hanging on the bottom of the vehicles. Our apparatus manufacturers didn't like installing them. The Union chose Plymovent. A good system. Annoying to hook up hoses when backing in. Extra crap hanging in the apparatus bay. If generation x, y, and z and the Local is happy, so be it.

    "I love the smell of a good diesel exhaust in the morning....smells like...Victory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrtrks View Post
    I would much prefer the No Smoke System to the hoses no matter who's it is. We run 3 people on an engine company besides not being NFPA compliant We usually have 1 guy in the street and the third person is spotting the driver as per normal safety standards. I am not 100% sure but I do belive that the No Smoke is close to having 2010 emissions cleanliness with thier current units.
    Do your guys ride in traffic in their POV's? Maybe some like to take walks about the city at times? Maybe a few even smoke? A warm diesel engine doesn't put off such a large amount of toxic fumes that we all need the "No smoke" systems. The hose systems catch the start-up first run emissions which are the worst your motors will expel. This is why we don't even risk running a guy over to hook up the hose when returning from calls.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrtrks View Post
    I don't want to see what the hose systems will look like when a new 2007 emissions unit regenerates. Okay I do want to see how hoses look in a puddle on the floor of someone's station.
    You'd have to be stupid to run any truck for long periods on the hose systems, pull it onto the apron and run the regeneration there.

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    Do your guys ride in traffic in their POV's? Maybe some like to take walks about the city at times? Maybe a few even smoke? A warm diesel engine doesn't put off such a large amount of toxic fumes that we all need the "No smoke" systems. The hose systems catch the start-up first run emissions which are the worst your motors will expel. This is why we don't even risk running a guy over to hook up the hose when returning from calls.
    The No Smoke also works on inital start up as does the hose systems. The idea behind a capture system is defeated if not used all the time, in your analogy the only bad diesel soot is at start up and the diesel soot produced after the truck warms up although less is better for you? I think not diesel soot is bad period.

    You'd have to be stupid to run any truck for long periods on the hose systems, pull it onto the apron and run the regeneration there.
    I'm sure you aren't calling me stupid so I will let that puppy sleep on the porch. Depending upon the manufacturer you may not have a choice of when the regeneration process takes place.
    Last edited by Fyrtrks; 07-19-2008 at 10:25 PM.
    Fyrtrks

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    What would you do if I called you stupid?
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    Back to the topic....

    We have 30 stations to eventually outfit and a large number of apparatus to deal with. We like the idea of a hoseless system, since it is somewhat more passive. I do think we would have compliance issues with having the hoses hooked back up when units return to quarters. I also hear that there is a lot of damage with the hose systems.

    We have done a fair amount of homework on the subject and looked at hose systems, ceiling mounted fans, and the truck mounted units. So far we are impressed with Ward, but we have not pulled the trigger yet and we need to find out about this "Smoke Blotter" to see if it is a viable substitute.

    Thanks

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    We put Wards on all our rigs last year. So far they've been great.

    One of the reasons we went with Wards is you can use them while your on a scene if needed, as well as when checking the rigs on the ramp at start of shift.
    Obviously, you cant do either with a hose type system.

    In fact, running rigs on the ramps in the morning and the concentration of nasty stuff we were exposed to was the main reason we went to a smoke system in the first place. We have vent fans inside the bays that did a decent job on start up and backing in.
    Last edited by Dave1983; 07-20-2008 at 08:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrtrks View Post
    The No Smoke also works on inital start up as does the hose systems. The idea behind a capture system is defeated if not used all the time, in your analogy the only bad diesel soot is at start up and the diesel soot produced after the truck warms up although less is better for you? I think not diesel soot is bad period.
    My point was just as you've noted, the warmed up engine produces much less harmful products than the initial start-up. While we would all like to protect ourselves as much as possible, we can also look at this from a rational point of view. I'm not against anyone choosing Ward's or what ever, but this issue has been studied, and hose/capture systems have cleaned up many stations. Just look at how often we used to have to scrub walls and repaint or replace ceiling tiles.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrtrks View Post
    I'm sure you aren't calling me stupid so I will let that puppy sleep on the porch. Depending upon the manufacturer you may not have a choice of when the regeneration process takes place.
    Actually I was not trying to call anyone stupid, but your point that regeneration would melt hoses is invalid unless someone actually thought it was a good idea to conduct regeneration while hooked to a system.
    Maybe the "no smokes" have improves, but I've yet to see a truck that's had one for any amount of time that still works flawlessly.

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    What does the Wards etc do that the 2007 emissions equipment doesn't do? To my understanding the new (current) exhaust particulate collection gear does a better job cleaning the exhaust that the addons from Wards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa
    What does the Wards etc do that the 2007 emissions equipment doesn't do? To my understanding the new (current) exhaust particulate collection gear does a better job cleaning the exhaust that the addons from Wards.
    Finally, somebody has asked the right question!!!!

    ANSWER: NOTHING

    Just because you can't see the fumes/soot, doesn't mean your breathing clean air. And those pushing the "boxes", are still in harms way, and still breathing toxic fumes. If you want to be real about your lungs and air quality, get a hose system that evacuates the exhuast.

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    This gets better and better.When you look outside and you see the air stratifing at around three feet off the pavement,how pure do you think that is?Do I think extraction systems are a good idea? Yes I do.Do I think they're going to exempt you from breathing bad air? No I don't. And it doesn't matter who's system you use you'll still get pollutants in your quarters. T.C.

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