1. #1
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    Default Intake valve options

    Rural FD. New 1250gpm topmount pumper. 6" side intakes. No hydrants in fire district. All operations are tanker shuttle and portatank/drafting (from left/driver side of pumper. "Best" intake valve would be a Precon but as a bit expensive not (yet) on the list of "solutions".

    1st intake was a butterfly w/handwheel operator. Due to location of the two 2-1/2" discharges have to cant the valve about 10degrees so the operator wheel will clear discharge. Chief doesn't like. So next option is same valve with a lever operator. Vulnerable to big feet/use as a step - break lever or valve. Valid point.

    Next option is a crank operated gate valve (Kochek 12A). Fits space available but only about 3-1/2" opening. So some to considerable restriction. Kochek does not know how much. And chief says not strong/durable enough.

    So anyone have any other "solutions". Footvalve strainer?

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    If they want to be NFPA compliant (and it just makes sense to me) the thing needs a slow close mechanism. I run a rear mount that for some reason was delivered without a slow close 6" valve, and opening it slowly is key or the pump shudders something fierce. Then again, if he's always drafting...

    Maybe I'm not understanding the issue well enough, but my vote would be for TFT's ball intake or jumbo ball intake unit, you may want to verify with them, but I believe the handwheel can be located on either side (left or right, looking at it from "front", I just can't recall since I last saw the valve and the sales presentation). It's fairly compact as well, operates very smooth, and one of them should give you the flow you're looking for. I'm looking for a cut sheet on TFT's site, haven't had any luck yet. Browsing TFT's site also might give you some ideas, as they have other large valves that might fit the space.

    If the chief can get over the valve being off of 100% vertical orientation, the intake can swivel and lock, so that would be vertical if that's the chief's gripe.

    PM me and I can give you an e-mail or phone number of a TFT rep that I'm sure would help answer your questions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Rural FD. New 1250gpm topmount pumper. 6" side intakes. No hydrants in fire district. All operations are tanker shuttle and portatank/drafting (from left/driver side of pumper. "Best" intake valve would be a Precon but as a bit expensive not (yet) on the list of "solutions".

    1st intake was a butterfly w/handwheel operator. Due to location of the two 2-1/2" discharges have to cant the valve about 10degrees so the operator wheel will clear discharge. Chief doesn't like. So next option is same valve with a lever operator. Vulnerable to big feet/use as a step - break lever or valve. Valid point.

    Next option is a crank operated gate valve (Kochek 12A). Fits space available but only about 3-1/2" opening. So some to considerable restriction. Kochek does not know how much. And chief says not strong/durable enough.

    So anyone have any other "solutions". Footvalve strainer?
    Hope I'm not misreading anything here, but how about the Harrington/AWG or Akron, or a couple of others where the operating wheel is perpendicular to the side of the truck? The valve can swivel to its heart's content, but the wheel is always in the same place.

    If the Precon is the one I'm thinking of, we bought one with our '89 Duplex/Quality, but got away from it pretty quickly. Too much friction loss.

    Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

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    100% drafting operation so a pressure relief valve doesn't do anything useful in this application (and as to my understanding is not required by NFPA). And expensive. As not hooked to a pressurized supply no requirement for a slow close valve (or so I understand it).

    Will never be hooked to a hydrant or other pressure supply.

    Hydrashield Precon is the brand I'm familar with. Work well for drafting FD. A bit expensive at around $2000 though. Which is the issue here.

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    Do you really mean 100% Drafting? As many FD's don't have a pressurized water system but do operate in pumping relays, which then makes the supply of the pressurized nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    Maybe I'm not understanding the issue well enough, but my vote would be for TFT's ball intake or jumbo ball intake unit, you may want to verify with them, but I believe the handwheel can be located on either side (left or right, looking at it from "front", I just can't recall since I last saw the valve and the sales presentation).
    I second that.

    The TFT Jumbo Ball Intake is the sharpest intake valve I've ever seen. The handwheel can be located facing left or right, and it can oriented where the handwheel faces vertical, on either the left or right side too.

    The TFT valve is designed to that when it's closed, the valve is dry, this virtually eliminates all corrosion to the internal components. It has a built-in 30 elbow that free swivels or locks in position.

    I started a thread about it here: http://forums.firehouse.com/showthre...187#post944187, and I had the TFT rep send me one to demo to persuade my Dept to switch. But we haven't bought any new trucks since so I don't know if my sales pitch worked. The TFT Jumbo Ball Intake could flow over 1,500 GPM from a draft.

    Here an owner's manual I found online: http://www.tft.com/newsite/literatur...-200_rev10.pdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Do you really mean 100% Drafting? As many FD's don't have a pressurized water system but do operate in pumping relays, which then makes the supply of the pressurized nature.

    Yes 100% very frequently the case for smaller FD in rural area (certainly in Iowa). In fact (a totally BS deal) in areas where the feds have finance installation of rural water systems the "Rural Water Co" will only allow you to fill foldatanks at the hydrant and then have to draft to fill tankers.

    LDH relay is unknown, certainly in NE Iowa.

    I'm sure the TFT ball intake is a great piece (from what I've read) but does not address the draft question of shutting the intake in order to hold suction/switch to booster tank. This is the strength of the Precon. Both are expensive but I'm sure the TFT is even higher than the Precon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Both are expensive but I'm sure the TFT is even higher than the Precon.
    I don't know the price of the PreCon, but I was quoted a sales price of the TFT-JBIV, model AX8NX-NX of just under $1,300.
    Last edited by txgp17; 07-30-2008 at 04:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Yes 100% very frequently the case for smaller FD in rural area (certainly in Iowa). In fact (a totally BS deal) in areas where the feds have finance installation of rural water systems the "Rural Water Co" will only allow you to fill foldatanks at the hydrant and then have to draft to fill tankers.

    LDH relay is unknown, certainly in NE Iowa.

    I'm sure the TFT ball intake is a great piece (from what I've read) but does not address the draft question of shutting the intake in order to hold suction/switch to booster tank. This is the strength of the Precon. Both are expensive but I'm sure the TFT is even higher than the Precon.
    we have the new tft ball valves and it work well for us. and we have to draft all the time
    Last edited by jeremy1213; 08-03-2008 at 02:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Yes 100% very frequently the case for smaller FD in rural area (certainly in Iowa). In fact (a totally BS deal) in areas where the feds have finance installation of rural water systems the "Rural Water Co" will only allow you to fill foldatanks at the hydrant and then have to draft to fill tankers.

    LDH relay is unknown, certainly in NE Iowa.

    I'm sure the TFT ball intake is a great piece (from what I've read) but does not address the draft question of shutting the intake in order to hold suction/switch to booster tank. This is the strength of the Precon. Both are expensive but I'm sure the TFT is even higher than the Precon.
    We're set up with the TFT BIV's (looking at swapping the jumbos in the future) and they work great for drafting. Ours is set up with a 6" male on the swivel and we use a 6" F x 4" Storz adapter for our LDH.

    We've always used the low-level strainers with the siphons built in. I can't say as I've payed attention to how much bleed-off there is of the water in the suction line, but anytime we've swapped from tank water to dump tank we just fill/pressurize the suction with the siphon, open the BIV and start drafting.

    I don't know what you're getting the other options priced at, but I bought our BIV's around $850-900/each (2 years ago I think).

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    We had the Pre-Con installed on our new pumper when we bought it a few years back. We don't regret it. Almost 100% of our pumping is from draft. We have a lever operated butterfly valve on the older pumper; works OK, but nothing like the ease of the Pre-Con.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Rural FD. New 1250gpm topmount pumper. 6" side intakes. No hydrants in fire district. All operations are tanker shuttle and portatank/drafting (from left/driver side of pumper. "Best" intake valve would be a Precon but as a bit expensive not (yet) on the list of "solutions".

    1st intake was a butterfly w/handwheel operator. Due to location of the two 2-1/2" discharges have to cant the valve about 10degrees so the operator wheel will clear discharge. Chief doesn't like. So next option is same valve with a lever operator. Vulnerable to big feet/use as a step - break lever or valve. Valid point.

    Next option is a crank operated gate valve (Kochek 12A). Fits space available but only about 3-1/2" opening. So some to considerable restriction. Kochek does not know how much. And chief says not strong/durable enough.

    So anyone have any other "solutions". Footvalve strainer?
    Look at the Hale MIV ...

    http://www.haleproducts.com/Main/Products,123,123.aspx

    Yes, it is expensive, but so are the valve's you hang on the outside. We put a manual on our side mount and a MIV-E on the opposite side to control that intake. It has a manual override if the electric died on scene. May be an option on your top mount so the operator can open and close from panel instead of getting up and down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefDog View Post
    Look at the Hale MIV ...

    http://www.haleproducts.com/Main/Products,123,123.aspx

    Yes, it is expensive, but so are the valve's you hang on the outside. We put a manual on our side mount and a MIV-E on the opposite side to control that intake. It has a manual override if the electric died on scene. May be an option on your top mount so the operator can open and close from panel instead of getting up and down.
    We have that one of those on one of our Engines. It has frequently failed to open when hooked to a pressurized hydrant.

    To counter this, the Drivers procured a traditional Piston Intake Valve, and attached it, while leaving the MIV open all the time. If they need to draft, the Piston Intake is removed, and the MIV is used instead.

    Nice Valve, but it's service has been less than impressive, and for the price you would pay, you could equip both steamers with a TFT JBIV.
    Last edited by txgp17; 08-03-2008 at 01:40 PM.
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    As truck just went into service a bit late for a MIV. And to my understanding NFPA "requires" a pressure relief outside of the pump panel if you using a pressurized source/supply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    As truck just went into service a bit late for a MIV. And to my understanding NFPA "requires" a pressure relief outside of the pump panel if you using a pressurized source/supply.
    Any gated intake that is 3" or larger, is required to have an adjustable pressure relief, and an air bleeder valve (don't recall the size).
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    Default TFT Jumbo

    I took a quick pic of our TFT Jumbo Ball Valve. As explained before, the advantage of this particular valve is that the elbow also rotates and has a locking pin. They're not cheap. We purchased several of them last year and paid $1,225 each.
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    We use the TFT BIV and jumbo valves. Very big opening in the jumbo valves.The swivel neck makes drafting hose positioning much easier.We originally purchased the BIV valves. When the jumbo valves came out we purchased them and moved the BIV valves to the passenger side. We normally draft from the pump panel side and use the passenger side for supply from 5" supply line when using hydrants.
    Last edited by Ranburne; 08-04-2008 at 10:12 PM.

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