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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I'm not saying the DE is a force, simply, on a per capita basis they do better. As a whole California, New York, Texas, Alaska will always produce more than the smaller states like Rhode Island, Connecticut, Delaware, Massachusetts. When comparing one state to another you have to do it on a normalized scale. In many cases the sheer number of people will sway the balance as will the total size of the state. But looking at the GSP (I know what that is now ) on a per person or per acre basis will tell how productive each really is. If I produce $10 per acre on 100 acres and the fellow next door produces $1 per acre on 10,000 acres I would be far more efficient and hence more productive. The other guy would be using his resources inefficiently and hence wasting far more.
    Now you're moving the goal line to be effiency per individual. The bottom line is the bottom line. And that is what interests capitalists when they invest in a community. The market is where the consumers live. CA is also fortunate with being a coastal state that enables it to be conduit for forreign trade and being a place many want to visit. No offense to those in the Midwest, but few people I've ever met want to visit a wheat field. While the bigger guy may be less efficient he is also wealthier due to sheer volume that is occurring. In the example you provide, you may be ten times more efficient, but your competitor is ten times wealthier. Please explain to me when you were able to buy groceries with efficiency. If the larger farmer has any sense he will do two things immediately. They will buy the smaller guy after they have adopted the methodology to become more efficient. This isn't rocket surgery.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I realize I'm not he only one paying high taxes. The problem I have is that out alleged leaders just keep spending money they don't have to buy votes. Taxes need to be reduced as does the spending. Bush got it half right, he cut the taxes. He should have demanded cuts in spending as well.
    Bush reduced the rate of taxation. If you understand how the monetary system operates he has raised taxes tremendously by virtue of the deficits he has both submitted and approved. Deficit spending is tax shifting. And Bush has shifted almost as much as debt as his predecessors combined.
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-07-2008 at 11:16 AM.
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    Just an observation. TomCat1066 seems to write well thought out posts using proper grammar, sentence structure and punctuation. Sort of like someone with an education. And then we have jsin925 who seems to write like a third grader. I wonder if he really does have a degree. And if he does, given his writings, I can understand why he can't get a job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Now you're moving the goal line to be effiency per individual. The bottom line is the bottom line. And that is what interests capitalists when they invest in a community. The market is where the consumers live. CA is also fortunate with being a coastal state that enables it to be conduit for forreign trade and being a place many want to visit. No offense to those in the Midwest, but few people I've ever met want to visit a wheat field. While the bigger guy may be less efficient he is also wealthier due to sheer volume that is occurring. In the example you provide, you may be ten times more efficient, but your competitor is ten times wealthier. Please explain to me when you were able to buy groceries with efficiency. If the larger farmer has any sense he will do two things immediately. They will buy the smaller guy after they have adopted the methodology to become more efficient. This isn't rocket surgery.
    Businesses invest by looking at the ROI. They want to get the most return for each dollar invested. That is the bottom line, what percentage did my investment return?

    NY also has a port, as well as the financial district. And what is really funny is that is where most of the wealth is, yet the state subsidizes their mass transit. If one ignores NYC the state is relatively poor. What is interesting is that the poor areas are republican and the wealthy areas are democratic. That alone says something.

    Bush reduced the rate of taxation. If you understand how the monetary system operates he has raised taxes tremendously by virtue of the deficits he has both submitted and approved. Deficit spending is tax shifting. And Bush has shifted almost as much as debt as his predecessors combined.
    That is sort of what I said. They didn't cut spending when they should have. Our government is worse than business. When business makes poor decisions and looses money they go out of business and file bankruptcy. Government just prints more money and puts us deeper in debt. And the next two clowns running for the president won't help matters either. Both want to spend more than they have.

    I got an idea, How about a balanced budget amendment?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    And yet again you fail to answer this basic question. You say the economy sucks, and use your fruitless job search as an example, yet you won't even tell us what field you are seeking employment in? Come on...do you even have a masters?
    i'm not talking about myself anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    That quote is one of the guiding principles of communism, socialism, and pretty much every economic system and advocates stealing from those who have been able to achieve and give to those who can't/won't.
    so people should be punished for being poor? are you saying if one is poor it's that person's fault? corporations get welfare, which is a form of socialism. universal healthcare is a form of socialism. public schools are a form of socialism. maybe the fire dept should be privatized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    So, tell me then, if you are having such trouble with the job hunt, how are you able to travel out of country to meet with these people? If you can afford to travel out of country, how come you say it would be to expensive to move?
    how presumptuous of you to think i paid for it. the coffee roaster paid for everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    You keep mentioning Milton Friedman. Have you even read any of his work?
    i don't think i mentioned him in my last post, and yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Just an observation. TomCat1066 seems to write well thought out posts using proper grammar, sentence structure and punctuation. Sort of like someone with an education. And then we have jsin925 who seems to write like a third grader. I wonder if he really does have a degree. And if he does, given his writings, I can understand why he can't get a job.
    And I don't even have a degree

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Perfect!!! Bravo!!!! I just heard this girl the other night, can't get a job because the economy is bad. Question: So young lady, what is your degree in? Fine Arts.

    Why is it the artsy liberal types are always so quick to blame someone else for their problems?
    you know everytime you buy a bottle of something, a motorcycle, a chair, so on and so forth, someone had to design the bottle, the motorcycle, the chair, and most likely that person went to art school and majored in industrial design, therefore having a degree in fine arts.

    and why use liberal in such a pejorative sense? are you liberal about nothing? do believe in premarital sex, which is a liberal idea?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Just an observation. TomCat1066 seems to write well thought out posts using proper grammar, sentence structure and punctuation. Sort of like someone with an education. And then we have jsin925 who seems to write like a third grader. I wonder if he really does have a degree. And if he does, given his writings, I can understand why he can't get a job.
    you seem to think i care what you think about me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    you know everytime you buy a bottle of something, a motorcycle, a chair, so on and so forth, someone had to design the bottle, the motorcycle, the chair, and most likely that person went to art school and majored in industrial design, therefore having a degree in fine arts.
    And there are a finite amount of jobs for those fields. It's generally a well known fact that, as a fine arts major, you will have difficulty in finding a job in that field. My own mother has a degree in fine arts, and her and her classmates all understood this (she was a non-traditional student so I actually knew her classmates). It isn't difficult to do a bit of research to see what the job market is like before studying something.

    And, for the record, I don't dog any major. However, when someone majors in Women's Studies, or Philosophy, then complains they can't get a job with the degree? Well, we called all those programs "You want fries with that" degrees for a reason.

    Of course, jsin925, you're experiencing these same pressures. Please, tell us what your degree is in so we can understand just how bad things are. Otherwise, we have to assume you've got a "you want fries with that?" degree and see no reason to put validity to anything you've related. On the other hand, finding out you have a degree like engineering, computer science, etc, would help us understand what you're saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    4.depends on where one lives. norway is pretty much socialist and it works out fine for them. venezuela is bolivarian socialist and it works out fine for the majority of people there, that's why hugo chavez has constantly been re-elected, and the rank and file of their military put him back in power when the military brass and the elites tried there coup in 2002. south america is moving towards socialism, and electing presidents who aren't part of the elite (chavez, morales, lula, and the lady in chile, i forgot her name, who is a socialist, single mother, agnostic, and i believe she was tortured under pinochet). what works for the goose doesn't always work for the gander.
    Are you kidding me? Hugo Chavez?

    First, let's talk about Norway. Norway has steadily moved away from socialism and more towards personal ownership of capital. It's arguable to even say they were a socialist country as that would imply no private ownership of capital. They have sold off state interests in the petroleum industry, state television stations, and many other industries. Sweden has even privatized their social security program!

    Did you know that Norway had one of the highest single mother rates in the western world? Why? Because the welfare state of Norway pays unwed mothers....

    Let's talk about your hero, Hugo Chavez. From the US state department:

    http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/rm/31740.htm

    He is a scumbag ruthless dictator who abuses his power, people and spits on democracy. When you violate human rights and use vigilante death squads, I don't know how you can consider that an honest election.

    He is of the ilk of Hitler, Mussolini, and Castro.

    I am now firmly in the camp that you do not have a masters degree and I wonder at the level of your secondary education.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I am now firmly in the camp that you do not have a masters degree and I wonder at the level of your secondary education.
    Welcome aboard Chief. We've got a fresh pot of coffee ready

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    you know everytime you buy a bottle of something, a motorcycle, a chair, so on and so forth, someone had to design the bottle, the motorcycle, the chair, and most likely that person went to art school and majored in industrial design, therefore having a degree in fine arts.

    and why use liberal in such a pejorative sense? are you liberal about nothing? do believe in premarital sex, which is a liberal idea?
    Yes, and those people have jobs.

    The liberals are claiming that premarital sex is THEIR idea?!?!? I think that there are some prehistory folks that would disagree.

    The liberals just perfected the art and now can screw a whole country over without marrying them.

    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    Welcome aboard Chief. We've got a fresh pot of coffee ready
    That had better be fair market coffee...
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    What US citizens have been arrested? Which US citizens have been ripped from their homes by the government?

    Innocent until proven guilty? Come on, we're not talking about crime, were talking about warfare. We're talking about people who are not US citizens who have taken up arms against the United States. We're talking about people who are combating the United States and who have a goal of toppling us as a nation. These are not common criminals, and you know that.
    None...YET. Today the act has only been used for, as far as is known to the public, for the war on terror. However, that is not its only limits. That is the problem.

    By the rest of your response, you didn't do the homework assignment. Shame on you. The other statute I mentioned has nothing to do with either terrorism or war, and it relates directly to law abiding, US citizens.

    Everyone needs to realize that the war on terror is the veil being used by the people currently in power to cover their actual agenda, which is of a much wider scope.

    Surely your intelligent enough to realize that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    i'm not talking about myself anymore.
    Nice cop out. Then we'll assume you're just full of it. We can now disregard your ramblings about your plight as the BS they obviously are.

    so people should be punished for being poor? are you saying if one is poor it's that person's fault?
    First, you need to define poor. The poor in this country are far better off any many places in the world. And, is it their fault if they're poor? Depends on the person. If they were born with limited mental capacity, then probably not. Same can be true of physical capacity. However, if they are of average intelligence, physically sound, and are poor, then it's been their decisions that have led them there.

    Is it a bad thing? Not if it's their choice. But, ultimately, it is up to them to fix it if they're unhappy. Not the government.

    corporations get welfare, which is a form of socialism.
    And I dare you to find one post where I say that's OK. Corporations should thrive of fail on their own. Period.

    universal healthcare is a form of socialism.
    What makes you think I don't know this? What makes you think I agree with universal healthcare?

    public schools are a form of socialism.
    Yes, they are. And look at the crappy job they do of educating people. Your own lack of writing skills should be example enough

    maybe the fire dept should be privatized?
    Right. Even though one thing that is the government's responsibility is public safety.

    how presumptuous of you to think i paid for it. the coffee roaster paid for everything.
    How presumptuous of you to expect me to be a freaking mind reader. Why then, did a coffee roaster, pay for you to travel out of country on this little trip? Inquiring minds want to know.



    i don't think i mentioned him in my last post, and yes.
    Really? That's funny, because you seem to think of him as a socialist when in fact he was actually against government involvement in the free market economy, believing that the free market economy (not that "fair market" BS you've been running on about) lead to political and social freedom.

    Maybe it's time to reread? It sounds like you're thinking Keynes instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Are you kidding me? Hugo Chavez?

    First, let's talk about Norway. Norway has steadily moved away from socialism and more towards personal ownership of capital. It's arguable to even say they were a socialist country as that would imply no private ownership of capital. They have sold off state interests in the petroleum industry, state television stations, and many other industries. Sweden has even privatized their social security program!

    Did you know that Norway had one of the highest single mother rates in the western world? Why? Because the welfare state of Norway pays unwed mothers....

    Let's talk about your hero, Hugo Chavez. From the US state department:

    http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/rm/31740.htm

    He is a scumbag ruthless dictator who abuses his power, people and spits on democracy. When you violate human rights and use vigilante death squads, I don't know how you can consider that an honest election.

    He is of the ilk of Hitler, Mussolini, and Castro.

    I am now firmly in the camp that you do not have a masters degree and I wonder at the level of your secondary education.
    because i mention people you all jump to the assumption that i think this person is a great guy. chavez was democratically elected. last election there were people there to make sure everything was on the up and up, and they declared that the election was kosher. he respected the votes of the people when they voted down his last referendum. what dictator does that? i don't believe what the state dept says about him, considering the cia was in on the coup attempt in 2002, and continue to fund his opposition. he is no hitler or mussolini, but he may be a little like castro. he does give poor people here heating oil at a discounted rate. all a pr move, but he still does it.

    we violate human rights, extraordinary rendition for example, and we kill innocent people. we are no saints.

    i don't care about the single mother rate in norway. being a single mother isn't an evil to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    he is no hitler or mussolini, but he may be a little like castro. he does give poor people here heating oil at a discounted rate. all a pr move, but he still does it.
    C'mon now. Don't even think of trying to portray Castro as a humanitarian, or a "leader for the people". If you do, we need to grab a beer and have you talk with a couple of local Cubans in the area.
    They will be more than happy to share their thoughts on Castro. In fact, they are more than happy to debunk any good thoughts anyone would have about any of the Castros.
    The stories they have are repulsive, completely repulsive. Their opinions also show why we need to keep the embargo going..

    He doesn't care about the poor, he doesn't take care of them, he keeps them oppressed and poor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    None...YET. Today the act has only been used for, as far as is known to the public, for the war on terror. However, that is not its only limits. That is the problem.

    Dave, I realize the concern. The problem that I have is in trying to make us safer. I am not a technology wizard, nor do I work in Federal law enforcement. I am not now, nor have I ever been a conspiracy theorist. I do also believe that the government is trying to protect us here, in the United States.

    Any type of legislation needs to be adjusted and evaluated. And again, oversight is the key, to ensure that the law is being adhered to. I believe in being very proactive in pursuing terrorism, and there needs to be flexibility in being able to stay ahead of them.
    Maybe if I were smarter I could come up with a better solution, but I'm not. All I know is that you have to be alive in order to enjoy any type of freedom. I'm not advocating eliminating any freedoms, I'm just trying to talk about how we can keep people alive and enjoy our freedoms.





    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    By the rest of your response, you didn't do the homework assignment. Shame on you. The other statute I mentioned has nothing to do with either terrorism or war, and it relates directly to law abiding, US citizens.

    I should have addressed the post better. I was only addressing the Patriot Act, but in looking back I wasn't clear about that. You have to cut me some slack though, my quarterback was just dealt to the Jets. My entire sports world has been turned upside down in the past several months.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    Everyone needs to realize that the war on terror is the veil being used by the people currently in power to cover their actual agenda, which is of a much wider scope.
    Surely your intelligent enough to realize that.
    Again, I am not a big conspiracy theorist. History may prove me wrong, maybe it won't.
    It doesn't matter who is in office, someone will come up with far fetched idea about anyone in office.
    Last edited by jasper45; 08-07-2008 at 01:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    Nice cop out. Then we'll assume you're just full of it. We can now disregard your ramblings about your plight as the BS they obviously are.
    please do. that's your right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    First, you need to define poor. The poor in this country are far better off any many places in the world. And, is it their fault if they're poor? Depends on the person. If they were born with limited mental capacity, then probably not. Same can be true of physical capacity. However, if they are of average intelligence, physically sound, and are poor, then it's been their decisions that have led them there.
    do you know any poor people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    Is it a bad thing? Not if it's their choice. But, ultimately, it is up to them to fix it if they're unhappy. Not the government.
    where did i say that is was the responsibility of the government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    And I dare you to find one post where I say that's OK. Corporations should thrive of fail on their own. Period.
    i never said you did. i was just pointing out forms of socialism in our society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    What makes you think I don't know this? What makes you think I agree with universal healthcare?
    the majority of the western industrialized world does, but i never said you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    Yes, they are. And look at the crappy job they do of educating people. Your own lack of writing skills should be example enough
    you're being presumptuous again, and assuming i went to public school. i don't see any problems with my writing skills. i don't capitalize letters out of laziness. let's look at some of your writing skills from your previous post: "The poor in this country are far better off any many places in the world." "Corporations should thrive of fail on their own. Period." period is not a sentence. there should be a comma between own and period to point out just one mistake. but you know, i really don't care about your writing skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    Right. Even though one thing that is the government's responsibility is public safety.
    why not leave it up to the free market, have different fire depts, and let the people choose which one is doing the better job? blackwater can have a stab at that too.

    does public safety include aiding people after a hurricane? bush thinks fema should be privatized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    How presumptuous of you to expect me to be a freaking mind reader. Why then, did a coffee roaster, pay for you to travel out of country on this little trip? Inquiring minds want to know.
    you're the one who jumped to conclusions, not me. does it matter why they paid for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    Really? That's funny, because you seem to think of him as a socialist when in fact he was actually against government involvement in the free market economy, believing that the free market economy (not that "fair market" BS you've been running on about) lead to political and social freedom.

    Maybe it's time to reread? It sounds like you're thinking Keynes instead.
    that's funny, i don't remember ever including him in on have anything to do with a fair market economy, only pinochet's. i do believe he was pinochet's economic advisor, and his government was soooo free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    C'mon now. Don't even think of trying to portray Castro as a humanitarian, or a "leader for the people". If you do, we need to grab a beer and have you talk with a couple of local Cubans in the area.
    They will be more than happy to share their thoughts on Castro. In fact, they are more than happy to debunk any good thoughts anyone would have about any of the Castros.
    The stories they have are repulsive, completely repulsive. Their opinions also show why we need to keep the embargo going..

    He doesn't care about the poor, he doesn't take care of them, he keeps them oppressed and poor.
    i don't believe i was portraying castro as a humanitarian. i don't even think i said chavez was a humanitarian. castro is a dictator, where chavez was democratically elected. both have nationalized things in there country, but chavez hasn't done it to everything like castro. castro does send doctors to third word nations, and americans can go to medical school there for free under some certain program. a local lady is doing it, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to afford med school. cuba does have a higher literacy rate than america too. it may all be pr, but he does it.

    i'm quite aware of castro killing dissidents, and other horrors. he's no saint by any means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    do you know any poor people?
    Yep. Lots of them. And, universally, it has been their decisions that led them there. Some are OK with their lot in life, since they're happy with it. Others want to blame everyone but themselves. Go figure.



    where did i say that is was the responsibility of the government?
    By espousing ideas that socialism is better, that free market economy is responsible for keep the poor downtrodden, you're advocating a change in the economics of this country. That can only happen with government intervention.



    never said you did. i was just pointing out forms of socialism in our society.
    So what? Did I say it didn't exist in our society?

    the majority of the western industrialized world does, but i never said you did.
    Again, so what? What point does this have with the discussion?

    you're being presumptuous again, and assuming i went to public school.
    But in most states, if not all, the requirements for even private education is laid out by the public school systems in those states. Even if you received private education, it was still mandated to meet certain forms by socialized education. The same is true of homeschooling.

    On some level, we're all public school educated.

    i don't see any problems with my writing skills. i don't capitalize letters out of laziness. let's look at some of your writing skills from your previous post: "The poor in this country are far better off any many places in the world." "Corporations should thrive of fail on their own. Period." period is not a sentence. there should be a comma between own and period to point out just one mistake. but you know, i really don't care about your writing skills.
    Oh, so it's laziness? Sure. Whatever. I make typos, because I'm human (the "any" should have been "than"). My "." before the word "Period" was intentional. I wanted more of a pause than a comma uses. But you knew that, didn't you there skippy?

    why not leave it up to the free market, have different fire depts, and let the people choose which one is doing the better job? blackwater can have a stab at that too.
    Why don't you answer the questions that have been asked of you before you make up ridiculous examples of hypothetical situations?

    But I'll play the game. Simple. There is insufficient profit for companies to wish to enter the game. Volunteer companies that are quite wealthy are tax free organizations usually that can get donations, as well as receive tax dollars. So even though some of these have, in the past, shown an extremely high excess of cash flow, that wouldn't happen with a for profit company. As such, it's not lucrative enough.

    However, some parts of the fire service, notably EMS, are privatized in many areas, and with great success.

    One important thing to note is that this discussion has been about national level economics. Fire departments are, on the whole, financed by local governments. Please, let's try and return to the subject at hand.

    does public safety include aiding people after a hurricane? bush thinks fema should be privatized.
    Post hurricane clean up may or may not be public safety. However, it could easily be argued that nothing in the US Constitution supports the idea that FEMA should even exist.

    you're the one who jumped to conclusions, not me. does it matter why they paid for it?
    It matters only for one reason. I believe that everything you've posted in this thread is bull$h!t. Your evasion of every pointed question has led me and apparently others here to believe that you've made up every detail about yourself in this thread.

    that's funny, i don't remember ever including him in on have anything to do with a fair market economy, only pinochet's. i do believe he was pinochet's economic advisor, and his government was soooo free.
    And yet you thought the Marx quote could have come from him? Pinochet was a piece of crap. No arguments there. So have some of the US Presidents. Hitler considered himself a socialist. So what? Past dictators who used one form of economics over another are irrelevant to the discussion.

    You still won't answer questions that have been asked time and time again. You evade every question about your "experience", and think you can speak with some authority.

    Sure...the same authority as anyone else who's trying to make me laugh.

  21. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    because i mention people you all jump to the assumption that i think this person is a great guy. chavez was democratically elected. last election there were people there to make sure everything was on the up and up, and they declared that the election was kosher. he respected the votes of the people when they voted down his last referendum. what dictator does that? i don't believe what the state dept says about him, considering the cia was in on the coup attempt in 2002, and continue to fund his opposition. he is no hitler or mussolini, but he may be a little like castro. he does give poor people here heating oil at a discounted rate. all a pr move, but he still does it.
    You do know that Hitler was elected by the people of Germany don't you? Getting elected by the people doesn't make you tyrannical dictator, shooting people in the back of the head for disagreeing with you does. I've read through most of your whining socialistic ramblings and find them drole. You need to do your homework on what works. Your idea on economics is socialistic/communistic. Fair is word made up by those that can't or won't do what needs to be done to succeed. Have you ever heard of a fair fight? I have, its the one's I win. Government intervention in the business world for economic reasons is almost all ways a bad idea. A free market economy is regulated by the consumer not the government and not businesses. A consumer run economy will force companies to produce high quality less expensive goods, don't believe me look at the auto industry. In the 1980's when the big 3 were producing crap the Japanese were producing high quality cars that were less expensive, care to guess which ones Americans were buying? The competition forced the American automakers to offer better quality at a better price and they did. Their current problems is as much a problem of interference as it is anything. Special interest groups (unions) have forced the automakers into loosing money. Also you need to define poor, if you are using income then it differs throughout the U.S. but even the poorest person in the U.S. is better off than being in some third world ****hole where your life isn't worth one red cent. The poorest of our country can receive free food in almost any city in the U.S., they can go to any hospital and receive medical care, they are protected under the same laws that protect the "rich", and they have the ability to elevate their position if they choose to do so. Our country offers free education and social services to those "less fortunate" so that they may raise their position in life. Don't feed me a line about being poor in this country, being poor is almost (not entirely) a choice, it is not fate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    It matters only for one reason. I believe that everything you've posted in this thread is bull$h!t. Your evasion of every pointed question has led me and apparently others here to believe that you've made up every detail about yourself in this thread.
    good. then let's not discuss me any more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    good. then let's not discuss me any more.

    Nope. Let's.

    After all, you brought it up. As my son and his friends say "No take backs!"

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    OK, I've thought about it a bit longer and figure, what the heck. I can be charitable and all that.

    However, in return for not discussing "you", you have to not bring up your "experiences" that you feel the need to share unless you're ready to discuss "you". If you bring up "you" and your life experiences again, then it's open season

    After all, every question about you has been posted as a response to something that you chose to share about yourself. Your experiences being used as an example of how your point is correct. However, when questioned further, you clam up. So, if you don't want people asking questions about yourself, then you should probably clam up a good bit sooner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlcooke3 View Post
    You do know that Hitler was elected by the people of Germany don't you? Getting elected by the people doesn't make you tyrannical dictator, shooting people in the back of the head for disagreeing with you does. I've read through most of your whining socialistic ramblings and find them drole. You need to do your homework on what works. Your idea on economics is socialistic/communistic. Fair is word made up by those that can't or won't do what needs to be done to succeed. Have you ever heard of a fair fight? I have, its the one's I win. Government intervention in the business world for economic reasons is almost all ways a bad idea. A free market economy is regulated by the consumer not the government and not businesses. A consumer run economy will force companies to produce high quality less expensive goods, don't believe me look at the auto industry. In the 1980's when the big 3 were producing crap the Japanese were producing high quality cars that were less expensive, care to guess which ones Americans were buying? The competition forced the American automakers to offer better quality at a better price and they did. Their current problems is as much a problem of interference as it is anything. Special interest groups (unions) have forced the automakers into loosing money. Also you need to define poor, if you are using income then it differs throughout the U.S. but even the poorest person in the U.S. is better off than being in some third world ****hole where your life isn't worth one red cent. The poorest of our country can receive free food in almost any city in the U.S., they can go to any hospital and receive medical care, they are protected under the same laws that protect the "rich", and they have the ability to elevate their position if they choose to do so. Our country offers free education and social services to those "less fortunate" so that they may raise their position in life. Don't feed me a line about being poor in this country, being poor is almost (not entirely) a choice, it is not fate.
    our government is the corporations. are you anti-union? i never said this country should become a socialist state. where did i say that? i gave an example of fair trade coffee as a way that capitalism can work with fair market prices. the coffee roaster i spoke of is quite successful, and has done what it takes to succeed. they are the starbucks of my town. when i think free market i think nafta, cafta, etc. all in my opinion are bad programs. maybe i should be saying free trade instead. and for democrat haters nafta was bill clinton's plan. can't get mad at the gas prices then because that's the free market and capitalism. the government shouldn't intervene because that would be bad. why should bp, shell, mobile, etc, be fair to the consumer? they're raking in billion dollar profits, and that's what it takes to be successful, right?

    the majority of poor people are children. children are innocent.

    i'm no christian, but i do believe that what you do to the least of my brethren you do unto me. but then again i guess jesus was more of a socialist.

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