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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    you wouldn't believe it anyway, unless it was on fox news, cnn, or msnbc.
    Name an american who has had their constitutional rights violated by the act.

    Tell me of an instance, even if you want to cite some crackpot site...something, anything.


    Yes, there are MANY critics of the US and our policies, when was the last time they were jailed or killed for it by the government.

    Tell me the last time the president of the USA has sent death squads after their political adversaries, or locked them in jail? Tell me the last time, the Republicans or Democrats have refused to participate in an election because they felt that the system was SO corrupt that they would have no chance.

    There are major, MAJOR differences between the US and Venezuela under Chavez, and if you can't admit to it, then you are being intellectually dishonest.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Name an american who has had their constitutional rights violated by the act.

    Tell me of an instance, even if you want to cite some crackpot site...something, anything.
    jose padilla. you might not think so, but his lawyer would argue differently.

    to get specific names is difficult considering the government doesn't have to release that info. but see: http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/03/09/se...ers/index.html. also, there were laws before the PATRIOT act that were harmful as well, but the PATRIOT act reinforced them, see: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/30/na...30patriot.html

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Yes, there are MANY critics of the US and our policies, when was the last time they were jailed or killed for it by the government.
    this is tricky, but i would argue martin luther king, jr. his own family doesn't believe that james earl ray shot him. king was critical of capitalism and the vietnam war. in one speech, he stated that something is wrong with capitalism, and claimed there must be a better distribution of wealth, and maybe america should move toward a democratic socialism.

    geronimo pratt, a former black panther. he was locked up for 27 years (declaring his innocence the whole time) and his conviction was vacated in 1997, on the grounds that the prosecution had not disclosed that a key witness against pratt was an informant for both the fbi and the lapd.

    leonard peltier, a member of aim. amnesty international (you know, the group that you used to prove that chavez is a bad guy) considers him a political prisoner.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Tell me the last time the president of the USA has sent death squads after their political adversaries, or locked them in jail? Tell me the last time, the Republicans or Democrats have refused to participate in an election because they felt that the system was SO corrupt that they would have no chance.
    refusing to participate, no. filing lawsuits against nader so he couldn't run, yes. see: http://www.thelangreport.com/politic...dernader-sues/. also, making it very difficult for a third party voice to be heard, yes: http://www.debatethis.org/nation.html.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    There are major, MAJOR differences between the US and Venezuela under Chavez, and if you can't admit to it, then you are being intellectually dishonest.
    yes, there are major differences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    You can disagree with the policy all that you want, no problem with that.
    The fact is though, they are encouraging people to come and protest. There is no limiting of your ability to speak freely, none at all. People complain that it is a violation of privacy to have to go thru a metal detector, or a search as well.
    i'm not familiar with the denver democratic convention. who are the "they" that are encouraging people to come and protest?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    You can go to the convention and protest till you're blue in the face if you want. The conventions are still going to go on, which are all part of free speech. Are you trying to suggest that the Secret Service should not try to make the conventions as safe as possible? Is it a violation of your rights for them to protect the leaders of our country?
    my questions are how far away from the covention will the free speech zone be, and will the media cover it? the people put the leaders in the position they are in, why should the people be sequestered away from them? we have the right to assemble in this country, but when the government says you can only assemble in this area, away from the media and the leader you put in power, that's when it becomes suspect to me. is the government truly by the people and for the people when the government dictates for the people where and when they can protest? thomas jefferson said an enlightened people, and an energetic public opinion... will control and enchain the aristocratic spirit of the government. he also said every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. the people themselves are its only safe depositories.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    Limiting free speech is when you can not express yourself. Free expression can not come at the expense of others, though. If your free speech endangers other people, it should be stopped.
    For some people, detonating an explosive could be a form of free speech. For others, it's burning a flag. If you burn that flag in a crowd, you are placing other people at risk, as is the explosive.
    i agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    It is a tough issue. However, allowing people to congregate in one spot to voice their opinion is no different than keeping protesters in a specific spot in front of the Whitehouse. People are still allowed to voice their opinion, protest, or express themselves freely. There is no infringement of anyones rights at the Democratic convention.
    thomas jefferson said a democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. i believe free speech zones were created so the people one is protesting against don't have to encounter the protestors, nor do the media. it is a way of stifling the voice of the opposition, while saying you have the freedom to say what you want, but not around me. i'm not sure if the jefferson quote fits my argument, but i like it so much that i had to throw it in there somehow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    jose padilla. you might not think so, but his lawyer would argue differently.
    Jose Padilla, who was sentenced to 17 years in jail on terrorism conspiracy charges?

    Sounds like the system worked. I guess we could have waited until after he committed an act of terrorism and then arrested him. It would be fairly easy for americans to avoid this... dont' meet with Al Quada operatives and plan terrorist acts against the US.

    Does this case make me fear for my freedom? Absolutely not.


    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    this is tricky, but i would argue martin luther king, jr. his own family doesn't believe that james earl ray shot him. king was critical of capitalism and the vietnam war. in one speech, he stated that something is wrong with capitalism, and claimed there must be a better distribution of wealth, and maybe america should move toward a democratic socialism.
    But it's pretty well proven fact that the government did not. Of course, it could have been Elvis Presley or aliens in the black helicopter that shot him.

    It's interesting that your conspiracy theories always rely on other conspiracy theories... at some point it gets a bit ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    geronimo pratt, a former black panther. he was locked up for 27 years (declaring his innocence the whole time) and his conviction was vacated in 1997, on the grounds that the prosecution had not disclosed that a key witness against pratt was an informant for both the fbi and the lapd.
    Wait, he had his day in court, was convicted... Chavez's victims don't get that basic right. Also, he was not proven innocent, the charges were dropped on a technicality.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    leonard peltier, a member of aim. amnesty international (you know, the group that you used to prove that chavez is a bad guy) considers him a political prisoner.
    Again, he had a trial. So, this means you are willing to accept the criticism of Venezuela by Amnesty Int?

    A political prisoner? Hardly. He's a criminal prisoner jailed for shooting two FBI agents.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    refusing to participate, no. filing lawsuits against nader so he couldn't run, yes. see: http://www.thelangreport.com/politic...dernader-sues/. also, making it very difficult for a third party voice to be heard, yes: http://www.debatethis.org/nation.html.

    yes, there are major differences.
    The point is that in the last election, the opposition parties didn't even run against Chavez because they felt the elections were so rigged. They didn't even try.
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 08-09-2008 at 09:13 AM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    my questions are how far away from the covention will the free speech zone be, and will the media cover it? the people put the leaders in the position they are in, why should the people be sequestered away from them? we have the right to assemble in this country, but when the government says you can only assemble in this area, away from the media and the leader you put in power, that's when it becomes suspect to me. is the government truly by the people and for the people when the government dictates for the people where and when they can protest?
    There are always some limits on your basic rights. These limits are essential to protect the rights of others. Again, this is fifth grade civics stuff here.

    You have a right to free speech, but you can't yell fire in a crowded theater.

    You have a right to bear arms, but you can't walk into the pentagon with a gun.

    You have a right to practice your religion, but you can't sacrifice small children.


    As far as this free speech zone. Would you rather there be no designated zone and then people get hurt or they do not get an opportunity to be heard?

    If you saw the zone, you would notice that it also creates a GREAT opportunity for the press to catch every single word of the protest and actually gives the protestors a greater venue where they have a shot of getting their message on the news.

    Would you have them on the stage next to the speaker?

    Your rights should never interfere with my rights.

    Class dismissed.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Jose Padilla, who was sentenced to 17 years in jail on terrorism conspiracy charges?

    Sounds like the system worked. I guess we could have waited until after he committed an act of terrorism and then arrested him. It would be fairly easy for americans to avoid this... dont' meet with Al Quada operatives and plan terrorist acts against the US.

    Does this case make me fear for my freedom? Absolutely not.
    jose padilla was indicted on charges that he conspired to murder, kidnap and maim people overseas, not here in the usa. it took the government 3 years to come up with those charges.

    paul craig roberts has said that the padilla case overthrew the constitution and did far more damage to the US' liberty than any terrorist could. but he's a nutjob who used to work for the reagan administration and came up with reaganomics, so what would he know, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    But it's pretty well proven fact that the government did not.
    i disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Wait, he had his day in court, was convicted... Chavez's victims don't get that basic right. Also, he was not proven innocent, the charges were dropped on a technicality.

    Again, he had a trial. So, this means you are willing to accept the criticism of Venezuela by Amnesty Int?

    A political prisoner? Hardly. He's a criminal prisoner jailed for shooting two FBI agents.
    your original question was "Yes, there are MANY critics of the US and our policies, when was the last time they were jailed or killed for it by the government?" i gave examples of people who were jailed and they did not get a fair trial. you never asked who was jailed without a trial.

    i can accept amnesty international's criticism of chavez. i can accept people's criticism of me. doesn't mean i agree with it.

    there are always people opposing chavez in venezuela. the major tv networks are against him, and say so everyday.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    The point is that in the last election, the opposition parties didn't even run against Chavez because they felt the elections were so rigged. They didn't even try.
    manuel rosales ran against him representing the opposition parties. he just lost.

    chavez tried to end term limits for the president, but the referendum was voted down, and he said he'll respect the wishes of the people. we'll see if he steps down in 2013 when his term ends.

    the majority of americans want the troops home and cheney said "i don't care". our leaders really respect our wishes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    As far as this free speech zone. Would you rather there be no designated zone and then people get hurt or they do not get an opportunity to be heard?
    why are you assuming people would get hurt? i believe people should be able to stand outside of the doors of the conventions and complain all they want.

    but you know, thomas jefferson was a nutjob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Wealth redistribution at it's finest... Obama should be ashamed.

    Typical liberal approach. Polarize and divide the haves and have-nots. Create a disenfranchised voting block, stay in power.

    Just an FYI of where things stand right now.
    (Raugh)


    MEDIA IGNORES ENERGY PROTEST

    HOUSE REPUBLICANS ASK EVERY DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN
    TO SUPPORT CONGRESS ENERGY PROTEST AS MANY LIBERAL
    NEWS MEDIA IGNORE THE INTERNET'S URGENT NEWS STORY

    By Kris Alingod, AHN News http://www.gantdaily.com/ August 7, 2008

    Washington, D.C.(AHN) - House Republicans sent letters on Thursday
    asking every Democratic congressman to join their protest against House
    Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) refusal to hold a special session and allow a
    vote on offshore drilling.

    "Right now, the biggest challenge facing most American families is
    the price of energy," the letter from Republicans read. "But on August
    1st Speaker Nancy Pelosi adjourned the House of Representatives for a
    five-week vacation, continuing to ignore this crisis. Americans rightly
    expect more from us as their elected representatives."

    "If you agree that Congress should not be taking a five-week vacation
    until we address the energy crisis, will you join us in publicly calling
    on Speaker Pelosi to reconvene the House and allow a vote on increasing
    American-made energy?," they added.

    House Republicans continued to their floor protest for the fifth day
    on Thursday. They began last Friday just after Congress adjourned for its
    summer recess. Their speeches before the empty chamber have been filled
    with vitriol against Pelosi, who has argued that oil companies should
    first drill in the 68 million acres of current leases and that the
    government should release oil from the Strategic Oil Reserve (SRP).

    Republicans maintain that ending the ban on exploration in the Outer
    Continental Shelf (OCS) and Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
    (ANWR) would help stem rising energy costs. Drilling in these areas,
    however, is banned by a 1981 legislative moratorium.

    Former Majority Chief Deputy Whip Robert Walker joined Republican
    colleagues on the floor on Thursday, a day after former Speaker Newt
    Gingrich visited the Capitol to lend his support.


    WALKER LENDS VOICE TO GOP PROTEST
    By Jackie Kucinich, correspondent for The Capitol Hill Publishing Corp.
    Walker, who served as Speaker Newt Gingrich's (R-Ga.) chief deputy
    whip and was known as the master of House rules in his day, made his
    first speech on the floor since retiring in 1997.

    He arrived one day after Gingrich offered his support at a press
    conference but declined to speak on the floor since he was no longer a
    member of Congress.

    In addition to the continued rounds of floor speeches, Republican
    leaders sent a letter to Democratic members asking them to join them in
    calling for the congress to come back to Washington to deal with the
    energy crisis.

    Only current members can be recognized to speak on the floor during
    regular order; guests such as leaders from abroad are given permission by
    the Speaker to address the lower chamber. The fact Congress is not in
    session allowed Walker to bend the rules.

    Walker led tourists and staff on a stroll down Memory Lane as he
    described a House where issues of the day were debated and resolved
    before the members left the floor.

    "One of my frustrations with Republicans and the Democrats when they
    controlled this House is that we don't have those kind of debates," he
    said. "Too often what we do is rig bills before [they reach the floor] .
    . . and [they come to the floor] on closed rules where very few if any
    amendments are permitted . . . at the end the majority wants to have the
    bill exactly the way they wrote it."

    Walker, now the chairman of the lobbying firm Wexler and Walker, has
    acted as an informal adviser to the House GOP since the party moved to
    the minority in 2006. Walker and Gingrich consistently used House rules
    to derail Democrats during their time in office.

    Asked during a press conference Thursday morning whether their Senate
    Republican colleagues would join them on the floor, Minority Whip Roy
    Blunt (R-Mo.) said that many Senate colleagues were supportive but did
    not say whether they would join House lawmakers back in Washington.
    The protest could continue right up until the start of the Democratic
    National Convention, according to a Wednesday night memo from the office
    of Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio).
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    why are you assuming people would get hurt? i believe people should be able to stand outside of the doors of the conventions and complain all they want.

    but you know, thomas jefferson was a nutjob.
    Are you saying people don't get hurt at demonstrations? You've never seen or heard of that?

    As for the Venezuela debate, etc... it's really dragged on way too long and it's certainly off topic. I'll let you have the final words.

    As for the rest of your points. I'll just shake me head and move on. I love to debate, but I honestly can't debate theorys like the government conspired to have MLK killed, when there is not one iota of evidence.

    You drag other off-topic points into every debate. You post erroneous information and your sources are not sources, just other people's opinions.

    You win, I quit.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Are you saying people don't get hurt at demonstrations? You've never seen or heard of that?

    As for the Venezuela debate, etc... it's really dragged on way too long and it's certainly off topic. I'll let you have the final words.

    As for the rest of your points. I'll just shake me head and move on. I love to debate, but I honestly can't debate theorys like the government conspired to have MLK killed, when there is not one iota of evidence.

    You drag other off-topic points into every debate. You post erroneous information and your sources are not sources, just other people's opinions.

    You win, I quit.
    honestly, the whole thing was starting to bore me too. i'll concede and let you win. we can agree to disagree. but, i did use amnesty international just like you, cnn, the ny times, etc, and some of your sources were just other people's opinions too. that's neither here nor there. what does make this country great ( i hope you can agree with me on this) is that we both can have different opinions, talk about them, and move on without any animosity. the world goes on no matter what we think. no hard feelings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    "One of my frustrations with Republicans and the Democrats when they controlled this House is that we don't have those kind of debates," he said. "Too often what we do is rig bills before [they reach the floor] . . . and [they come to the floor] on closed rules where very few if any amendments are permitted . . . at the end the majority wants to have the bill exactly the way they wrote it."
    i share his frustration. i think they just don't want to work together for the benefit of the people, just their parties.

    as far as the vacation thing, they should only get as much vacation as the average person, which is very limited. there is no way they should be taking a vacation now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    Just an FYI of where things stand right now.
    (Raugh)


    MEDIA IGNORES ENERGY PROTEST

    HOUSE REPUBLICANS ASK EVERY DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN
    TO SUPPORT CONGRESS ENERGY PROTEST AS MANY LIBERAL
    NEWS MEDIA IGNORE THE INTERNET'S URGENT NEWS STORY
    Wait a minute.

    Do you really think that we're going to believe that journalists are inclined to provide a liberal "slant" in their reports? (Sarcasm)

    Well, according to Bill Dedman of MSNBC, "MSNBC.com identified 143 journalists who made political contributions from 2004 through the start of the 2008 campaign, according to the public records of the Federal Election Commission. Most of the newsroom checkbooks leaned to the left. Out of 143 journalists: 125 giving to Democrats and liberal causes, 16 to Republicans, and two to both parties."

    That means that journalists officially endorse a "liberal" point of view, 87% of the time. Does that sound even remotely equitable?

    Furthermore, WILLIAM TATE of Investor's Business Daily found that:
    "An analysis of federal records shows that the amount of money journalists contributed so far this election cycle favors Democrats by a 15:1 ratio over Republicans, with $225,563 going to Democrats, only $16,298 to Republicans. "

    Gentlemen the facts are clear. The vast majority of journalists are flaming liberals. You should know this in advance every time you watch, listen, or read a journalists alleged “account” of events.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Wait a minute.

    Do you really think that we're going to believe that journalists are inclined to provide a liberal "slant" in their reports? (Sarcasm)

    Well, according to Bill Dedman of MSNBC, "MSNBC.com identified 143 journalists who made political contributions from 2004 through the start of the 2008 campaign, according to the public records of the Federal Election Commission. Most of the newsroom checkbooks leaned to the left. Out of 143 journalists: 125 giving to Democrats and liberal causes, 16 to Republicans, and two to both parties."

    That means that journalists officially endorse a "liberal" point of view, 87% of the time. Does that sound even remotely equitable?

    Furthermore, WILLIAM TATE of Investor's Business Daily found that:
    "An analysis of federal records shows that the amount of money journalists contributed so far this election cycle favors Democrats by a 15:1 ratio over Republicans, with $225,563 going to Democrats, only $16,298 to Republicans. "

    Gentlemen the facts are clear. The vast majority of journalists are flaming liberals. You should know this in advance every time you watch, listen, or read a journalists alleged “account” of events.
    just a question, but would it be better if they donated more money to the republicans? should journalist not be able to vote, and should who they voted for be a matter of public record? could it be that people who have more conservative views don't go into journalism as a profession, but rather something like business? are conservatives more honest than liberals? who has more of an affect on legislation, journalists or corporations? does congress care what the people think anyway? i don't trust the mainstream media, just offering up questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Gentlemen the facts are clear. The vast majority of journalists are flaming liberals. You should know this in advance every time you watch, listen, or read a journalists alleged “account” of events.
    And what's your point? As JS asked, should journalists not be allowed to vote? Should more conservatives be forced to go into journalism?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    just a question, but would it be better if they donated more money to the republicans?
    Yes, if those donations were equitable to what was given to the Dems. I don't want journalists to abstain from having an opinion, I just don't want all of them to have the same opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    should journalist not be able to vote, and should who they voted for be a matter of public record?
    Every law abiding & tax paying citizen should be able to vote, and all those votes should be anonymous.
    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    could it be that people who have more conservative views don't go into journalism as a profession, but rather something like business?
    It "could" be anything you can fathom, but an explanation doesn't change the fact that journalists are more inclined to be liberal, and in turn they have tendency to present things from a liberals' point of view.
    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    are conservatives more honest than liberals?
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    who has more of an affect on legislation, journalists or corporations?
    I don't know, but clearly journalists have more influence than is acceptable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    does congress care what the people think anyway?
    Ask them, I'm not a congressman.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    And what's your point?
    It was stated in the last two sentences.
    The vast majority of journalists are flaming liberals. You should know this in advance every time you watch, listen, or read a journalists alleged “account” of events.
    Next time try reading the whole post.
    As JS asked, should journalists not be allowed to vote?
    You always try to derail a discussion into something the other party didn't even mention. Did you see anywhere in that post that I mentioned voting? NO YOU DON'T. Of coarse they should be allowed to vote.
    Should more conservatives be forced to go into journalism?
    No, but if liberals had their way that would most likely be their remedy. Pass a law forcing the outcome that they desire is the norm. Example: A liberal has no quarrels with racial quotas for Affirmative Action. So if it's acceptable to select job applicants based on race, how could it not be acceptable to choose based on political views.
    Last edited by txgp17; 08-10-2008 at 01:48 PM.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    why are you assuming people would get hurt? i believe people should be able to stand outside of the doors of the conventions and complain all they want.

    but you know, thomas jefferson was a nutjob.
    I go away for three days and this thread goes nuts.

    Why haven't anyone of you dealt with the fundamental point? This sociolist IS NOT A FIRE FIGHTER! Why are you wasting one more second on him? I will not.

    Here are two sure things;

    1. He will never get a job in the fire service.
    2. When he doesn't get a job in the fire service, he will be crying discrimination.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Lets bring attention back to the original post, and how poorly Nancy Pelosi's grasp on reality really is.

    She's so stupid, that she doesn't even recognize that the Iraqi Troop Surge was a success.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u026Jeu5pp4

    Beyond that, she's even credited the reduction in violence in Iraq to the actions of the Iranians.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd576oS_KL0
    Last edited by txgp17; 08-10-2008 at 01:57 PM.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    And what's your point? As JS asked, should journalists not be allowed to vote? Should more conservatives be forced to go into journalism?
    The point is that there is the potential for liberal bias in the media based on the donations of those journalists.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Lets bring attention back to the original post, and how poorly Nancy Pelosi's grasp on reality really is.

    She's so stupid, that she doesn't even recognize that the Iraqi Troop Surge was a success.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u026Jeu5pp4
    You know what is even funnier than Her Looniness mis stating the "Surge's" mission is that when Barbara Wlaters lets her response slide aroun 1:16 about how Nancy was supposed to "clean up the mess" and she says "we did." Then says that all disaproval ratings (continually ignored by our resident Liberals) are lower than the loathed President's. She says that the questions about Congress' approval is directly related to Iraq - but they aren't.

    What a maroon.

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Beyond that, she's even credited the reduction in violence in Iraq to the actions of the Iranians.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd576oS_KL0
    And this clip ends with a thought that reminds me of a very scary thought. This twit, who has done NOTHING since becoming Speaker of the House - and even less since the Democrats have regained "control." She is third in line of succession to become President of the United States.

    This one is even better - and even more germain to the topic of this thread. Alas I suspect that Noz and scfire will not say anything about it, other than to lambaste REpublicans for using her statements and facts against her.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd576oS_KL0
    Last edited by DaSharkie; 08-10-2008 at 03:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    The point is that there is the potential for liberal bias in the media based on the donations of those journalists.
    So if they didn't donate, would that change their opinions?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So if they didn't donate, would that change their opinions?
    Not necessarily, but when your own media outlets show a political bias in your political monetary donations and the public finds out, don't be shocked when people are suspiscious of a slant in your reporting - and go elsewhere for their news.

    Hence the declining readership in newspapers and declining viewership of news programs- being based in part on perceived biases.

    Just do yoru damned job - inform the public with the truth, not your version of the truth.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    you know everytime you buy a bottle of something, a motorcycle, a chair, so on and so forth, someone had to design the bottle, the motorcycle, the chair, and most likely that person went to art school and majored in industrial design, therefore having a degree in fine arts.

    and why use liberal in such a pejorative sense? are you liberal about nothing? do believe in premarital sex, which is a liberal idea?
    Yes, but there are millions of unemployed actors, artist, and the like. Not so with other professions.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925
    you seem to think i care what you think about me.
    Nope, not at all. It's just a function of how you present your self and who comes off sounding and looking more intelligent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    ...
    Quote:
    "corporations get welfare, which is a form of socialism."

    And I dare you to find one post where I say that's OK. Corporations should thrive of fail on their own. Period. ...
    I would say in a prefect world this would be true. However, American businesses must compete with foreign companies. We are in direct competition with countries like China, where the people work for the state and the state controls everything. Next, we tax our businesses plus we add additional costs through higher wages, environmental regulations, safety regulations, etc. In order to keep jobs here we need to subsidize these corporations.

    The problem is that we try to steer policy with grants and subsidies. The proper approach would be to cut taxes, and also cut spending

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So if they didn't donate, would that change their opinions?
    I'm not sure if you are trying to be funny or if you really don't see the connection?

    The donations merely give us insight into what their beliefs are, as most won't openly come out and tell you what they believe.

    I kind of like that idea, how about each journalist be open about their bias?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    I should have addressed the post better. I was only addressing the Patriot Act, but in looking back I wasn't clear about that. You have to cut me some slack though, my quarterback was just dealt to the Jets. My entire sports world has been turned upside down in the past several months.

    Yes!!! And in the process, the Jets will go from Pretender to contender.

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