1. #351
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Nice try. I was asked to name a firearm that had no sporting value. The weapon I named did just that.
    Actually, that would depend on how you define sport. While attending a recent conference in Las Vegas I found out they has a firing range where you could go to shoot. They even had fully auto weapons you could rent. A lot of people were interested. I however, could have cared less. I got to shoot all the fully auto weapns I wanted while serving my country. And it didn't cost me a thing. There is a thrill though of pulling the trigger and just letting them rip.

  2. #352
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    The thread was first derailed by scfire86 when he failed miserably to use a firearm topic in an attempt to show hypocrisy in the political spectrum. A .50 cal M2 HB was never banned because it lacked a "sporting purpose." But at least thats a "political" issue.
    Since this thread is actually supposed to be about Pelosi turning off the lights and microphones in the House prematurely, the sidetrack actually happened on page 1, when it became about oil and drilling in the ANWR. So, for 18 pages now, this thread hasn't been about the original topic.

    And the big question is...so what? You're the only one who seems to be bothered by it.

  3. #353
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Actually, that would depend on how you define sport.
    I believe I've discovered your true identity.


    Bill Clinton.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  4. #354
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    We have both conservative and liberal newspapers in the LA and OC areas. Both are circling the drain. I won't miss the OC rag. They are on a jihad against all public servants. Especially fire and police. The usual overpaid and underworked BS.
    Like I said, when you push an AGENDA with your "reporting" then people will go elsewhere for the facts.

    Thank you for re-stating what I wrote.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  5. #355
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I believe I've discovered your true identity.


    Bill Clinton.
    Now that is funny right there, I don't care who you are.

    But back on topic, it looks like Nancy is coming down off her high and is coming to her senses. Seems she is now willing to listen to the people and bring this to a vote. Perhaps America will become more self sufficient by using our own natural resources instead of someone elses. I did have to laugh though. Her claim was she was trying to "save the planet". Somebody needs to explain to her that the planet includes the entire globe, not just he USA. What is the difference if the oil is drilled in Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, the Middle East, Alaska, or off shore?
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 08-13-2008 at 09:41 AM.

  6. #356
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Memphis Tn,USA-now
    Posts
    5,436

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Nice try. I was asked to name a firearm that had no sporting value. The weapon I named did just that.

    Where does it say that firearms may only be owned for sport?
    Back on subject,this morning,Nancy was quoted on Fox about how she'd support debating drilling if it included a broad range of topics.
    Most likely she wants to insure that spills are harshly punished and those that spill or harm the environment are slammed as well.
    Maybe she needs to go out on a drill rig and try to explain to the people working there how to do their jobs.I wonder how that would be received:as help or an insult?
    If she thinks that drill crews don't know how to do their jobs without tearing up the planet,maybe she shouldn't run for re-election but instead open a school where she can teach oil companies how they should be accomplishing their mission statement.

  7. #357
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Greensboro, NC USA
    Posts
    1,317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Isn't freedom of speech a wonderful thing? In Russia, China, and Cuba they don't allow that.
    I've not asked anyone to keep quite, only to take the discussion to the appropriate forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Nice try. I was asked to name a firearm that had no sporting value. The weapon I named did just that.
    You attempted to bait & switch, and failed at both. You insinuated that some overreact when the .gov bans a firearm because it has no sporting purpose. When asked to provide an example, you answered the .50 cal M2 HB. Now you're using the term "sporting value" which is similar, but not the same as "sporting purpose". Either way, your statement will be debunked in two ways: In legal terms and on principal.

    First, the "Sporting Purpose" clause is a near absolute power granted to the Attorney General to authorize the importation of rifles and shotguns into the United States only if it is recognized as suitable for sporting purposes. This clause only applies to importation; domestic production is excluded from it. As a requirement of the government contracts regulating their production, all M2’s used by Uncle Sam were produced domestically, thus they cannot be imported, thus each one is excluded from the Attorney General’s authority granted under this law. The details of this can be found in 18 U.S.C. section 925 (d) (3).

    Secondly, this sporting purpose clause can only be applied to rifles and shotguns. It cannot be applied to pistols, revolvers, or machine guns. By definition, a M2 is a machine gun; therefore it is excluded (again) from the requirements of the sporting purpose clause.

    Finally, I’ll address your hair splitting definition of a firearm that has no sporting value. You wrote “no sporting value”, which is clearly synonymous with “zero sporting value”. If I find just one sport where a 50 cal M2 HB can be used, then a M2 would have “some” sporting value, thus making your statement false.

    I refer you to the “Classes Of Competition” found on page 5 of the Official Match Rules and By Laws of the Fifty Caliber Shooter’s Association, Inc, an organization dedicated to advancing the sporting uses of the .50 BMG cartridge. They have 16 shooting competitions scheduled for 2008.

    Paragraph 3 details the requirements for any firearm used in the Unlimited Class which reads: “Any barreled receiver that fires a bullet with a diameter of .510/.511 inches.” Though it’s called a “50”, the actual diameter of a 50 BMG’s projectile is .510” to .511”. Clearly, an M2 machine gun falls into this broad category. And in the used firearm market there are several M2’s that are available for private ownership and are presently for sale. That means we can buy an M2, and use it for sport shooting at FCSA shooting matches, thus an M2 HB has “some” sporting value, and it would have a sporting purpose.

    Your Sporting Purpose/Value misconception has been busted. Look on the bright side: At least you didn't deny being the first person to hijack the thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    And the big question is...so what? You're the only one who seems to be bothered by it.
    Just because the Bandwagon engages in a behavior does not make it proper. If most everyone decides to talk on their cellphone during a movie, that doesn't make it kosher. Popularity is irrelevant to the argument.
    Last edited by txgp17; 08-13-2008 at 02:54 PM.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

  8. #358
    Forum Member
    ThNozzleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Jefferson City, TN
    Posts
    4,339

    Default

    I've not asked anyone to keep quite, only to take the discussion to the appropriate forum.
    These forums take off-topic directions all the time. And for most of us that have been here for years it is one of the things that keeps it interesting for us. Don't like it? Tough.
    Shouldn't you be spending more time researching how a TurboDRAFT operates, anyway?

  9. #359
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Just because the Bandwagon engages in a behavior does not make it proper. If most everyone decides to talk on their cellphone during a movie, that doesn't make it kosher. Popularity is irrelevant to the argument.
    And what about this is "improper". Threads drift, and they always have and always will. It's not about popularity anyways. It's about the fact that for 18 pages this thread has, more or less, been off topic. There's been discussion about drilling in the ANWR, the gun discussion, the economy, and even a little football.

    There's no reason to get worked up about a thread going off topic.

  10. #360
    the 4-1-4
    Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    I've not asked anyone to keep quite, only to take the discussion to the appropriate forum.

    Well then, what does gun control have again with Nancy Pelosi, off shore drilling, etc... ?

  11. #361
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Greensboro, NC USA
    Posts
    1,317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Shouldn't you be spending more time researching how a TurboDRAFT operates, anyway?
    So you're holding a grudge against me because you made incorrect statements about an item you'd never even used. Nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    Well then, what does gun control have again with Nancy Pelosi, off shore drilling, etc... ?
    Ask scfire86, he inserted that into his argument, just 29 posts into the thread.
    Last edited by txgp17; 08-13-2008 at 01:42 PM.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

  12. #362
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Nice try. I was asked to name a firearm that had no sporting value. The weapon I named did just that.
    I can't seem to find the term sporting anywhere in the Constitution.

    What is important to remember is that the framers of the Constitution had just gone through a revolution to gain their freedom. Key to the overthrow of the tyrannical government was the ability of the revolutionary forces to have firearms. The framers intended for the populace to have guns of what ever type to protect them from bad government

  13. #363
    the 4-1-4
    Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Ask scfire86, he inserted that into his argument, just 29 posts into the thread.

    No need to, Sc was not the one who's panties were all twisted about because the thread had drifted off topic.
    I'm just surprised (not really though) to see you would continue to keep this thread off course. After all, there are plenty of gun control threads on these boards.
    And you know how it is, no one would want to read the title of this thread and read about gun control, but whatever.

  14. #364
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ECCMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Near somewhere on the front range
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Thank you for reinforcing my point. I was being facetious.
    You are welcome...glad to have your back...even if it is hard to read sarcasm/facetiousness in a post.

  15. #365
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Although I am undoubtedly the most intelligent person most of you will ever encounter, when I have limited knowledge of a subject, I admit it. I have limited knowledge of the subject of offshore drilling. But I can't seem to remember a major oil spill that occurred from a drilling rig. Anecdotally, I have heard about a major spill in like 1968. But in my adult life, there apparently hasn't been one.

    If that is true, wouldn't that make offshore oil drilling incredibly safe and environmentally friendly? There wasn't even a major spill post-Katrina. Of course, that would provide even further proof that Pelosi is a fool.

    Secondly, I have an aquaintance who regularly fishes in AK in the area where the Valdez oil spill occurred. He reports that the area is cleaner, more beautiful and has an abundant array of fish since the oil spill. There is no evidence of the spill. I am not advocating having an oil spill to spark a makeover, but I think it shows that these horrible incidents don't mean the end of life as we know it.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  16. #366
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ECCMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Near somewhere on the front range
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Although I am undoubtedly the most intelligent person most of you will ever encounter, when I have limited knowledge of a subject, I admit it. I have limited knowledge of the subject of offshore drilling. But I can't seem to remember a major oil spill that occurred from a drilling rig. Anecdotally, I have heard about a major spill in like 1968. But in my adult life, there apparently hasn't been one.

    If that is true, wouldn't that make offshore oil drilling incredibly safe and environmentally friendly? There wasn't even a major spill post-Katrina. Of course, that would provide even further proof that Pelosi is a fool.

    Secondly, I have an aquaintance who regularly fishes in AK in the area where the Valdez oil spill occurred. He reports that the area is cleaner, more beautiful and has an abundant array of fish since the oil spill. There is no evidence of the spill. I am not advocating having an oil spill to spark a makeover, but I think it shows that these horrible incidents don't mean the end of life as we know it.
    George,

    True or not (and I making no judgement on the veracity of your statement), that is THE ballsy-est statement I have ever read on any forum. I commend you, sir!

  17. #367
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    So you're holding a grudge against me because you made incorrect statements about an item you'd never even used. Nice.Ask scfire86, he inserted that into his argument, just 29 posts into the thread.
    Nice. I was asked a question regarding constitutional rights and I responded with an answer.

    I won't be arguing for the sake of arguing.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  18. #368
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Greensboro, NC USA
    Posts
    1,317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I was asked a question regarding constitutional rights and I responded with an answer.
    And it was a wrong answer.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

  19. #369
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    If that is true, wouldn't that make offshore oil drilling incredibly safe and environmentally friendly? There wasn't even a major spill post-Katrina. Of course, that would provide even further proof that Pelosi is a fool.
    Let's keep in mind that one estimate says that there is 3.612 x 10²º gallons of sea water in the ocean.

    Someone else can do the math, but if you spill 100,000 gallons of oil, it's the literal drop in the bucket.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  20. #370
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    And it was a wrong answer.
    According to you. Not to me.

    The Constitution doesn't say anything about an Interstate Highway System and the feds built one.

    Founding Father Thomas Jefferson had a very strict view of the responsibilities of government when he wrote the Constitution. Yet during his presidency he funded the Lewis and Clark Expedition. There's no mention of that being a governmental responsibility either.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  21. #371
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    The Constitution doesn't say anything about an Interstate Highway System and the feds built one.

    Founding Father Thomas Jefferson had a very strict view of the responsibilities of government when he wrote the Constitution. Yet during his presidency he funded the Lewis and Clark Expedition. There's no mention of that being a governmental responsibility either.
    Not sure I follow the comparison.

    The feds provide funds to build the highways, but they are controlled and operated (owned if you will) by the states.

    Which is a protected right of the states in the tenth amendment.

    I wouldn't recommend trying taking that right away either.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  22. #372
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Not sure I follow the comparison.

    The feds provide funds to build the highways, but they are controlled and operated (owned if you will) by the states.

    Which is a protected right of the states in the tenth amendment.

    I wouldn't recommend trying taking that right away either.
    My point is there are folks who will criticize an action of the feds because it's not explicitly written in the Constitution.

    There are numerous government activities that are not explicitly written in the Constitution, yet they are in fact a legal or legitimate act of the Feds.

    When I hear critics of the Feds rationalize the Federalist Papers as the basis of the government and its considered excess I use the Jefferson example to explain even some of those Founding Fathers didn't adhere to those tenets in their totality.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  23. #373
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ECCMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Near somewhere on the front range
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Adhering to those tenets entirely and abrogating the rights affirmed to individuals by certain amendments (note I did not write 'grant') are not exactly the same.

  24. #374
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    My point is there are folks who will criticize an action of the feds because it's not explicitly written in the Constitution.

    There are numerous government activities that are not explicitly written in the Constitution, yet they are in fact a legal or legitimate act of the Feds.

    When I hear critics of the Feds rationalize the Federalist Papers as the basis of the government and its considered excess I use the Jefferson example to explain even some of those Founding Fathers didn't adhere to those tenets in their totality.
    I understand, but if it is explicitly written in the bill of rights than how can you justify the gun control position?

    Seems pretty clear to me. The people have a right to bear arms.

    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  25. #375
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I understand, but if it is explicitly written in the bill of rights than how can you justify the gun control position?

    Seems pretty clear to me. The people have a right to bear arms.

    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
    Because people in the extremes of political ideology will fight for the rights that they want and fight against the rights of others that they do not like.


    I love how people who want to curb my own Constitutionally guaranteed rights will never give one inch on their own rights.

    This is not necesarily directed at SC, just an observation I have made.

    Just remember, the Constitution tells the PEOPLE what the government CANNOT do.


    As for the interstate highway system, it was built with 3 major purposes in mind - which are largely forgotten or.....conveniently ignores.

    1) Transportation of goods for interstate commerce

    2) Evacuation of major cities in time of war - which I extend to disaster

    3) Movement of military assets to more easily provide for national defense.


    Me being able to drive from Boston to Seattle on I-90 is certainly not a major purpose.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. FF safety/chicken BBQs
    By princessAJ in forum U.S. States
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-23-2007, 01:57 PM
  2. Chicken Fry on Saturday 6-24
    By rustyknobbs in forum Illinois
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-21-2006, 09:19 AM
  3. Subservient Chicken
    By EMTSteve in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-09-2004, 03:22 PM
  4. Keithsburg FD Fish & Chicken Fry
    By emtbecka in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-30-2003, 10:13 AM
  5. August Fire Scenario #2: BBQ Chicken Anyone?
    By Dalmation90 in forum Fireground Tactics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-08-1999, 11:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register