1. #26
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    LOL, typical reply. It's all BUSH's fault!
    Wow. What a fact-filled response. You really knocked that one out of the park, didn't you? Was someone else setting policy for all those years? Surely George W. "I haven't heard anything about four dollar a gallon gas" Bush isn't to blame.
    Can the righties get any dumber??

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Allow me to also add one more thought. The democrats (aka Liberals) are happy about the high price of gas. This plays right into their belief that we must do something about the alleged Man Made Global Warming. What dopes to think we can control the climate. At any rate, the high price of oil and gas equates to a reduction in consumption, which is what these nut cases want, no matter the cost. In the end, the poor and the working class get hurt again for some idealistic hoopla that means absolutely nothing. The high cost of energy is directly responsible for the collapsing economy. Don't worry that you can't afford food, you will save the growing polar bear population.
    When he was subpoenaed to turn over the notes from the Energy Task Force, Cheney claimed "Executive Privilege" and refused. Two of the participants in those meetings are now convicted felons.

    This is the energy policy the Bush administration laid out in early part of the administration.

    Did you know that recent research shows that 20% of the worlds undiscovered oil reserves lie above the arctic circle. Although I ask the question, How do they know how much is there if it is undiscovered?
    That doesn't necessarily equate to profitability for those who extract oil. As I've stated in the past, the oil companies are demanding significant subsidies to start drilling. It could be argued the high price of gas plays into their hands as well. They continue to receive record profits while stating their inability to drill because of enviro concerns and therefore enabling the political pressure on congress to get them the subsidies they demand.

    Could you point me to one place the oil companies have been prevented from drilling? The only place that comes to mind is off the coast of Florida when they had that enviro wacko governor Jeb Bush. You can't be serious when you believe the oil lobby isn't more capable of getting its way than the Sierra Club.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Wayne, notice how (as usual) neither one of these guys has introduced any facts into evidence, only made an excuse?
    Facts were introduced. Congress had officially recessed. That is the authority granted the Speaker.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Recess is one thing, but you have an objection on the floor to the motion. Especially when the same lies......er I mean statements, from Nancy Pelosi were to be a more respectful majority. I love it when the Left gets caught in lies and their defenders only bring up past lies of Republicans, as if it is OK to do it.
    See above post.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Also notice how they deftly avoided answering the plummeting approval rating of thier beloved Democratically led congress that was supposed to work for the average man.
    People may dislike congress, but they like their representative. It is why the same folks that are wholly despised keep getting re-elected.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Sure the Republicans had 6 years to come up with an energy policy - and screwed the pooch. I don't recall President Clinton doing it. Nor do I recall the previously Democratically held congress doing it before 1992 with prior energy crises. Nor did Jimmy Carter do it after 2 major energy crises. However the Democrats have had 18 months this time around, so their apparent choice for a rebuttal to the energy policy proffered is NOT to offer their own up, just to argue against a Republican measure. Wanna bet that the Democrats will not offer up an energy plan of any sort?
    I addressed this issue on another thread. This administration has gone to great lengths to keep their energy policy secret. It's become obvious why that was done.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    Excuse me????

    Have you been paying any attention whatsoever to whats been happening to our "rights" since GWB and his morality police have been in charge? And I guess you also missed the fact that your government of the people, by the people and for the people can now spy on you and detain you without just cause.

    Talk about mindless...
    No one seems to care the 4th or 5th Ammendment has been demolished. But listen to the cries of outrage if someone wants to ban a firearm that has no sporting purpose.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    No one seems to care the 4th or 5th Ammendment has been demolished. But listen to the cries of outrage if someone wants to ban a firearm that has no sporting purpose.
    Produce an Object. Any Object. Firefighters WILL find a Sporting Purpose for it. Guaranteed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    No one seems to care the 4th or 5th Ammendment has been demolished. But listen to the cries of outrage if someone wants to ban a firearm that has no sporting purpose.
    Give me an example of a firearm that has no sporting purpose. I can't wait to debunk this ridiculous statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Give me an example of a firearm that has no sporting purpose. I can't wait to debunk this ridiculous statement.
    .50 cal M2 HB.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Facts were introduced. Congress had officially recessed. That is the authority granted the Speaker.
    No, officially, recess had not begun. Voices from BOTH sides of the aisle were demanding an electronic vote on whether to approve the motion to adjourn. Why was Nancy so afraid to allow it to continue? Why did she cut off the microphones and cameras? Why were the lights turned out? And, lastly, why were the reporters not only thrown out of the gallery, but out of the building entirely? What was she afraid of?

    Or did she have to leave immediately to start her vacation, because she would lose time due to that pesky that fuel stop (because she was denied that 767 she wanted so that she could fly back home non-stop?)

    Just how much ARE the greenies paying her to fook the american people?
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    Have you been paying any attention whatsoever to whats been happening to our "rights" since GWB and his morality police have been in charge? And I guess you also missed the fact that your government of the people, by the people and for the people can now spy on you and detain you without just cause.

    Talk about mindless...

    Hardly mindless.
    Where are all of the people being detained without just cause? Are you talking about Guantanamo Bay? You mean people who have taken up arms against the United States? People who want to kill us for being different than they are? You mean those people who are not even US citizens?

    Where are all of the cases of peoples civil rights being violated?
    You want to talk about the "morality police", what about all of the legislation out there dictating what can happen in private business, like what kind of oil they can fry food in, or whether smoking can be allowed or not on it's premises, or how they promote "safe haven cities" that defy Federal laws, which in turn endangers all of us.

    Your constitutional rights are just fine, let's just make sure we're able to stay alive and enjoy them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    As I've stated in the past, the oil companies are demanding significant subsidies to start drilling. It could be argued the high price of gas plays into their hands as well. They continue to receive record profits while stating their inability to drill because of enviro concerns and therefore enabling the political pressure on congress to get them the subsidies they demand.
    And why shouldnt they get SOME subsidies? After all, they explore for the crude, extract it, transport it, refine it, and transport the finished product to the delivery points, and only make 8 cents per gallon!

    What does the Gov't do? Nothing! Nadda! Zip! And they make 18 cents per gallon! So why shouldnt the oil companies get some kind of subsidies, after all, if and when they do get to drill, they are probably going to have to do so with all kinds of restrictions established by Nancy and her communist buddy Reid and all the other enviro-wacko greeny idiots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    And why shouldnt they get SOME subsidies? After all, they explore for the crude, extract it, transport it, refine it, and transport the finished product to the delivery points, and only make 8 cents per gallon!

    They also assume all of the risk of exploration. Just because there is evidence that oil exists down below, that doesn't guarantee they will be able to recover it. They may very well drill and not get oil, it isn't a perfect science.

    Subsidies are also part of keeping companies local. If we don't give them the tax-breaks, they will go where those breaks exist, along with the jobs and money generated with them. It's happening on a daily basis here, we can't even keep long-time companies who helped to create this city.
    They won't be given their "corporate welfare", and a host of people will benefit by being unemployed.

    It is funny though, lefties oppose corporate tax-breaks, and often call it "corporate welfare", yet have no issue offering tax-breaks and lucrative tax-laws to help the movie industry.
    I've seen it happen here as well as several other states.
    Kinda makes you wonder ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    .50 cal M2 HB.
    Okay, first of all this is a fully automatic weapon and thus has special restrictions placed on it. Such as the need for an FFL Class 3 license and the approval of loccal or state law enforcement. The licensing is so strict and so regulated that the vast majority of "average" citizens can't possibly hope of owning one.

    Now beyond that, if a person desires to own one of these and is legally allowed to, and engages in the legal use of it at things like full auto shoots in areas where this is permitted why isn't that a sporting use? Please give me one example, just one, of a legally owned and registered fully automatic weapon being used in the commission of a crime. I only know of one anectdotally and it was committed by a law enforcement officer.

    The problem is a failure to understand the hobby of shooting. If a fire arm, regardless of its design and firing operation, is used in a legal manner by a person legally allowed to posess and use it, what is the problem? I enjoy the shooting sports, mostly target shooting or plinking with my sons and girlfriend. I break no laws, make sure where I am shooting is safe, and practice safe shooting. My boys know very well how strict I am and they know the consequences of violating any of my safety rules.

    The public has no ability in the vast majority of cases to differentiate between a semi-automatic weapon and a full automatic weapon and the press and politicians looking to make a name for themselves are no better. Full auto, load the weapon, **** the weapon, pull the trigger and it keeps firing until you release the trigger or run out of ammunition. Semi auto, load the weapon, **** the weapon, pull the trigger, relaease and pull again, it will only fire with each sucessive trigger pull. It has nothing at all to do with what the weapon looks like, how many bullets the magazine carries or any political clap trap. It is purely mechanical.

    Frankly, if I had the money and the time I would explore getting a Thompson sub machine gun simply because of sentimental value. My Dad carried a Thompson in WWII and loved it. Just having it does not make me a criminal IF I followed the law to get it. Shooting it would be fun beyond belief.

    I know you will shred this because it is usually your way or no way. But I will not surrender my gun rights to you OR anyone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    The Bush policies over the last seven years have led directly to the situation we're in now, along with a Republican controlled congress. Big Oil has been raping us at taxpayer expense for years, with little or no oversight.
    Yes, Americans only started driving gas guzzling SUVs in the last 7 years, before Bush took office they weren't even invented yet.

    And before Bush took office people always lived within walking distance of their jobs and extended family. Massive urban sprawl in American didn't even start until February of 2001. Before then 99% of Americans were still living in Mill Villages.

    And yes, it was Bush's lack of oversight into how much money the OIL companies are allowed to make per gallon of gas that has led to this. We should take over the oil companies and have our politicians run them, and dictate they should only make enough money per gallon of gas to pay employees was they need to live, and only pay investors the same return on investment they would have received by buying Government Saving Bonds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I am probably the most conservative one on here.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Are you willing to pay billions of subsidies to the oil companies to drill in ANWR? Because that is what they want before they start drilling. Somehow that inconvenient fact is never mentioned by the conservatives who got their thongs in a twist.
    Open it up to highest bidder and watch how quickly a line forms.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Man, this one just never gets old, does it?
    What's the date on that?
    My Capt at work tells of driving off from pumps because gas was too high, at 69 a gallon. You're making fun of a politician who failed to have an accurate crystal ball. Who are you, Nostradamus?
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    .50 cal M2 HB.
    You are clueless when it comes to firearms.
    That is a machine gun, and they are not banned because they lack a sporting purpose. If you can find one that was legally registered with the ATF before May 19th, 1986, you can own it under Federal Law. "Sporting Purpose" has nothing to do with a 50 cal M2. If you knew anything about "Sporting Purpose" you'd know that it only applied to imported semi-automatics. Plus you'd know what president signed the first Executive Order "banning" said imports. Even Bill Clinton's ill fated "Assault Weapon Ban" had nothing to do with machine guns. The very text of the law specifically limited it restrictions to "semi-automatics".

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Okay, first of all this is a fully automatic weapon and thus has special restrictions placed on it. Such as the need for an FFL Class 3 license and the approval of loccal or state law enforcement. The licensing is so strict and so regulated that the vast majority of "average" citizens can't possibly hope of owning one.
    The question was:

    Give me an example of a firearm that has no sporting purpose. I can't wait to debunk this ridiculous statement.
    It wasn't:

    Give me an example of a firearm that is a fully automatic weapon and thus has special restrictions placed on it. Such as the need for an FFL Class 3 license and the approval of loccal or state law enforcement that has no sporting purpose. I can't wait to debunk this ridiculous statement.
    Are you saying there are no gun enthusiasts who believe those restrictions should be lifted to enable a greater ease in ownership of a weapon of that nature?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    Hardly mindless.
    Where are all of the people being detained without just cause? Are you talking about Guantanamo Bay? You mean people who have taken up arms against the United States? People who want to kill us for being different than they are? You mean those people who are not even US citizens?

    Where are all of the cases of peoples civil rights being violated?
    You want to talk about the "morality police", what about all of the legislation out there dictating what can happen in private business, like what kind of oil they can fry food in, or whether smoking can be allowed or not on it's premises, or how they promote "safe haven cities" that defy Federal laws, which in turn endangers all of us.

    Your constitutional rights are just fine, let's just make sure we're able to stay alive and enjoy them.
    I'm sure you'll be just as happy with the infringements of the 4th Ammendment (such as warrantless wiretapping) when a Dem is in the White House.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    They also assume all of the risk of exploration. Just because there is evidence that oil exists down below, that doesn't guarantee they will be able to recover it. They may very well drill and not get oil, it isn't a perfect science.

    Subsidies are also part of keeping companies local. If we don't give them the tax-breaks, they will go where those breaks exist, along with the jobs and money generated with them. It's happening on a daily basis here, we can't even keep long-time companies who helped to create this city.
    They won't be given their "corporate welfare", and a host of people will benefit by being unemployed.

    It is funny though, lefties oppose corporate tax-breaks, and often call it "corporate welfare", yet have no issue offering tax-breaks and lucrative tax-laws to help the movie industry.
    I've seen it happen here as well as several other states.
    Kinda makes you wonder ...
    What's even funnier is that righties always **** and moan on how their tax dollars are being spent on issues they don't like, but now it should be okay for my tax dollars to be spent on something I don't like.

    Open it up to highest bidder and watch how quickly a line forms.
    Secretary Horton did just that for years and none of the oil companies were willing to bite unless there were significant subsidies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post

    Originally Posted by FyredUp

    Okay, first of all this is a fully automatic weapon and thus has special restrictions placed on it. Such as the need for an FFL Class 3 license and the approval of loccal or state law enforcement. The licensing is so strict and so regulated that the vast majority of "average" citizens can't possibly hope of owning one.
    The question was:


    Give me an example of a firearm that has no sporting purpose. I can't wait to debunk this ridiculous statement.
    The answer was, I did define a sporting use for the very gun you listed It didn't fit into your neat world of golf and tennis and perhaps croquet. The fact is there are people, gun enthusiasts, that do get together in family oriented settings to shoot their legally owned machine guns. Why does that frighten you so much? The answer to gun crime is to punish the criminals not the law abiding citizens.

    It wasn't:


    Give me an example of a firearm that is a fully automatic weapon and thus has special restrictions placed on it. Such as the need for an FFL Class 3 license and the approval of loccal or state law enforcement that has no sporting purpose. I can't wait to debunk this ridiculous statement.
    Because it doesn't meet your narrow definition of what sporting is you seek to restrict it further and eliminate it. I don't particularly care for football and find Nascar boring as hell but I would not for the life of me tell someone because I do not partake in that activity, which as far as I know is entirely legal, that they can't do it if they wish. Shooting is a activity, or sport, that is enjoyed by countless numbers of individuals every day and is legal.


    Are you saying there are no gun enthusiasts who believe those restrictions should be lifted to enable a greater ease in ownership of a weapon of that nature?

    Are you saying there are no members of the liberal left that want to eliminate private citizen gun ownership entirely?
    Fear, especially an irrational one, drives people to believe all kinds of things. Like taking guns away from law abiding citizens will reduce crime.

    Nope, you want to drive me to action seriously start talking that way. I will be an NRA member the same day as well as a member of any state associations. Personally on many levels I find the NRA a bit too extreme for even me. So to drive me to join shows you my committment to my constitutional right to own firearms.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 08-03-2008 at 02:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    .50 cal M2 HB.
    Those can be used for the sporting purpose of hunting terrorist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm sure you'll be just as happy with the infringements of the 4th Ammendment (such as warrantless wiretapping) when a Dem is in the White House.
    I've nothing to hide. Go ahead. Look all you want. The ones who are afraid are the ones with something to hide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    And why shouldnt they get SOME subsidies? After all, they explore for the crude, extract it, transport it, refine it, and transport the finished product to the delivery points, and only make 8 cents per gallon!

    What does the Gov't do? Nothing! Nadda! Zip! And they make 18 cents per gallon! So why shouldnt the oil companies get some kind of subsidies, after all, if and when they do get to drill, they are probably going to have to do so with all kinds of restrictions established by Nancy and her communist buddy Reid and all the other enviro-wacko greeny idiots.
    Actually in Congressional testimony the number was 2 cents a gallon. Between the state and federal government there is 80 cents a gallon in taxes. So ask, who is raping the American consumer. I laugh when someone complains about the oil company profits. The government makes 40 times that on the sale of fuel, plus they tax the profits.

    Now, consider that many other countries subsidize their fuel. It helps to keep us competitive. Of course this country used to be the richest country in the world. And how did we get that way? It was private industry that gave us our wealth, not government. However, our government has succeeded in taxing our economy to the point that China is now #1.

    Hopefully, our legislators will wake up and stop taxing us so much before it is too late.

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    Yes, Americans only started driving gas guzzling SUVs in the last 7 years, before Bush took office they weren't even invented yet.
    Eh? Surely you're not going to sit there and state that liberal policies and ideology promote SUV's and "gas guzzlers" are you?
    And yes, it was Bush's lack of oversight into how much money the OIL companies are allowed to make per gallon of gas that has led to this. We should take over the oil companies and have our politicians run them, and dictate they should only make enough money per gallon of gas to pay employees was they need to live, and only pay investors the same return on investment they would have received by buying Government Saving Bonds.
    Conservative/republican policies and ideas concerning deregulation and the "free market" are well known. It's a complete scam on the American people, and always has been. I mean, the poor oil companies are just struggling to survive in these hard times.
    My Capt at work tells of driving off from pumps because gas was too high, at 69 a gallon. You're making fun of a politician who failed to have an accurate crystal ball. Who are you, Nostradamus?
    A crystal ball?? What the hell are you talking about? Chimpy McFlightsuit just doesn't give a damn. Nearly every economist and expert analyst in the nation was predicting this mess for years, while King George fiddled away.
    I've nothing to hide. Go ahead. Look all you want. The ones who are afraid are the ones with something to hide.
    The ones snooping will be the ones determining who has what to hide.
    You are truly a fool to hold such an ignorant notion.

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    Between the state and federal government there is 80 cents a gallon in taxes.
    Now, just how do you figure that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    What's even funnier is that righties always **** and moan on how their tax dollars are being spent on issues they don't like, but now it should be okay for my tax dollars to be spent on something I don't like.

    No ****ing and moaning here, except for consistency. I'm all for giving tax breaks, etc... to bring movies and production into an area, but I'm also for providing the tax climate to keep regular companies here.
    I'm guessing you don't have that issue in Southern California, but it is a HUGE issue here. Corporations are leaving this area and this state in droves, and they're doing it entirely because of the tax-climate.

    People love to bitch about jobs leaving this country, yet the first move is to call for more taxes on companies, etc... especially from the Democrats, unless it's a company that falls under a typically left-wing industry such as movie production.

    You don't think so? Do a little research on this area. We just lost a brewery that was key to the foundation of this city, and we lost it because government here would not budge on giving them a tax break. On the flip side, we have created state laws specific to the benefit of movie making, which has actually brought some movies into the state, including a Depp movie.

    Tax breaks for companies work.


    I'm sure you'll be just as happy with the infringements of the 4th Ammendment (such as warrantless wiretapping) when a Dem is in the White House.
    If there is Democrat in office, and they're able to convince me they're keeping us safe and preventing future attacks, and innocent people aren't being dragged out of their homes, and we still have free elections, and there are no tanks in the streets, and we can still criticize our government with no repercussions, then no problem.
    In other words, if it's just like it is now, then they're doing something right.

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    Sorry Scarecrow, you're wrong a bit here. the arctic circle lays at 66 degrees 33 mins and there is no oil coming out of there by Canada. Some companies like HBOG, Dome Petroleum and PetroCanada drilled there and found oil alright, but its still there because its too hard and expensive to get south. The Noggies and the Cloggies are nowhere near drilling inside the arctic circle and while Russia has done a bit, its still in the ground too. Drilling in the wildlife refuge may make a difference in a long term outlook, but it would be 20 years before any appreciable difference would be felt in the lower 48. Plain and simple is there needs to be a lot more effort put into an alternative energy source and it sure as heck won't be wind or bio fuels.



    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Did you know that recent research shows that 20% of the worlds undiscovered oil reserves lie above the arctic circle. Although I ask the question, How do they know how much is there if it is undiscovered?
    http://blogs.wsj.com/environmentalca...ic-oil-gusher/
    Did you also know that Russia, Canada, and the Netherlands are already tapping into that pool of oil? Did you also know that drilling in ANWR will allow the US to use the already bought and paid for Alaska oil pipeline?



    So she is just like they are...No there is leadership.. It just sickens me to see these legislators acting like a bunch of elementary school kids on the playground. The young lady needs to grow and stop acting like a 10 year old.



    I'm glad you agree, that was said somewhat tongue in cheek. Seems people forget that the current rise in fuel prices started in Bill Clinton's last 3 years as president. The trend has simply continued throughout the Bush years. During that time none of our elected officials have done anything to change it. Difference now is the Republicans have been trying to come up with solutions and do something, their opponents are just walking away. They all make me laugh. If one side says the sky is green the other will say the sky is red. In the end both are wrong and we the people take it in the shorts

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I've nothing to hide. Go ahead. Look all you want. The ones who are afraid are the ones with something to hide.
    This is exactly the same type of activity we (the US) would criticize the KGB for performing on their citizens.

    I guess my belief in the Constitution goes beyond yours.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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