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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Always the fall back for the desperate. The oil companies get it. I have yet to hear of them clamoring for the ability to drill where they can not unless they are subsidized.

    Once again I state the reality of the only offshore drilling locale that prevented them was off the coast of FL during the tenure of the enviro wacko Jeb Bush.

    So,tell us.How intelligent is it to tax oil companies to pay for a $1,000 rebate to the taxpayers to buy fuel?
    All it's doing is taking money FROM the oil companies so the public can give it right BACK to the oil companies.
    Barack Obama is a snake oil salesman if that gets done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    So,tell us.How intelligent is it to tax oil companies to pay for a $1,000 rebate to the taxpayers to buy fuel?
    All it's doing is taking money FROM the oil companies so the public can give it right BACK to the oil companies.
    Barack Obama is a snake oil salesman if that gets done.
    Considering the billions oil companies currently receive via subsidies and credits it's probably a brilliant move on their part.
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    Considering the billions oil companies currently receive via subsidies and credits it's probably a brilliant move on their part.
    Does this include the billions of dollars in taxes they pay each quarter?

    We always talk about how much profit an oil company makes each quarter, and then criticize them, but does anyone know or even realize how much in corporate taxes they currently pay each quarter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    Does this include the billions of dollars in taxes they pay each quarter?
    What difference does that make? I pay taxes and no one subsidizes me. Do they not benefit from doing business in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    We always talk about how much profit an oil company makes each quarter, and then criticize them, but does anyone know or even realize how much in corporate taxes they currently pay each quarter?
    You bring up an interesting point. Business always complains about high wages (unless it is the folks at the top) but they never complain about high profits.

    I bet you still believe "free" market forces are in effect in this industry. Don't you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    What difference does that make? I pay taxes and no one subsidizes me.
    Wait, you didn't get your check? I'm sure you returned your stimulus check as you are so opposed to subsidies...
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Wait, you didn't get your check? I'm sure you returned your stimulus check as you are so opposed to subsidies...
    I'm sure you think you're being funny or clever.

    Thanks to the wife's earnings we didn't qualify.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm sure you think you're being funny or clever.

    Thanks to the wife's earnings we didn't qualify.
    Funny and clever..

    So, you would have given it back if you qualified, right?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Funny and clever..

    So, you would have given it back if you qualified, right?
    Hypothetical question. Couldn't tell you.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Hypothetical question. Couldn't tell you.
    C'mon...what a cop out!

    It would be bad in your opinion to subsidize a rich couple like you and your wife, right?

    In fact, seeing the obscene profits that you and your wife are making, perhaps you should have a special tax applied to your earnings.

    FYI, It's Obama that considers you "rich", McCain doesn't.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Considering the billions oil companies currently receive via subsidies and credits it's probably a brilliant move on their part.
    Could you please provide the source of this data. Not that I don't believe you

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    It would be bad in your opinion to subsidize a rich couple like you and your wife, right?
    And it's one of the reasons we didn't get a stimulus check that was done with more borrowed money that only puts this president at the top of deficit spenders.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    In fact, seeing the obscene profits that you and your wife are making, perhaps you should have a special tax applied to your earnings.

    FYI, It's Obama that considers you "rich", McCain doesn't.
    FYI. The impact McCain's putting me in SSI will be far greater than the impact of Obama's tax. And that doesn't include the impact if McCain has his way of packing the Supreme Court and overturning FLSA.
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-28-2008 at 01:17 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    And it's one of the reasons we didn't get a stimulus check that was done with more borrowed money that only puts this president at the top of deficit spenders.


    FYI. The impact McCain's putting me in SSI will be far greater than the impact of Obama's tax. And that doesn't include the impact if McCain has his way of packing the Supreme Court and overturning FLSA.
    Righttt.... And Obama will pack the courts with Muslims and overturn our religious freedoms...

    Problem my friend is that this country cannot afford Obama and his pie in the sky pipe dream.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    What difference does that make? I pay taxes and no one subsidizes me. Do they not benefit from doing business in this country?

    Actually, if you get money back in the form of a refund you are getting the same thing as a subsidy. A subsidy is nothing more than some kind of a tax break to keep money in circulation.
    So as long as you never claimed your children as deductions, or claimed any kind of business expense, etc... then you haven't received any tax subsidies.

    Yes, they absolutely do benefit from the business they do in this country. The problem is though, if we tax them more they will turn the added cost over to us, just like every business does.

    My only point was that in every debate on this topic people only point out the record profits they have made. These companies are also paying record taxes at the same time, and yet that never is mentioned.

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    With all the additional taxes that are heaped on big business it's not a wonder that they aren't all overseas.

    I don't see a tax break as a bad thing for an industry that is so critical to our country and pays so much in taxes to begin with.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Righttt.... And Obama will pack the courts with Muslims and overturn our religious freedoms...

    Problem my friend is that this country cannot afford Obama and his pie in the sky pipe dream.
    Wow. I'm not surprised at that remark. It goes right along with the rest of the right wing hate remarks you put forth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    My only point was that in every debate on this topic people only point out the record profits they have made. These companies are also paying record taxes at the same time, and yet that never is mentioned.
    My point is that business always complains about high wages, but never about high profits. I believe that capitalism is the best system of change for progress, but it is quite capable of killing the goose that lays the golden egg.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    My point is that business always complains about high wages, but never about high profits. I believe that capitalism is the best system of change for progress, but it is quite capable of killing the goose that lays the golden egg.
    But the best part about capitalism is that the competition that found a way to do it cheaper and better are usually the cause of the "goose's" death. This winds up being to the benefit of the consumer.

    So they complain about high wages, but not about high profits. So what?

    Don't we all do that? Is there anyone out there that admits to being paid too much? Pretty nonsensical argument.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Wow. I'm not surprised at that remark. It goes right along with the rest of the right wing hate remarks you put forth.
    That is Sarcasm chucklehead. You really need to stop listening to the democratic leadership who play on the fears of the people. I listened to part of the convention, I wanted to hear what Obama had to say. Instead I got Richardson speaking in spanish. Someone needs to tell him this is America nad we speak English here, it is a requirement of citizenship. This isn't Spain, it isn't Cuba, It isn't Latin America, it is simply America.

    They followed that up with Al Gore and his lies about big business, polluters, and the fairy tale of Anthropogenic Global Warming. Talk about an angry man with blinders on.

    Then they paraded out a bunch of Generals as if to say the military is behind them. In any group of people I will be able to find some who support both political parties. Might be a couple of exceptions.

    But the real kicker was the alleged truck driver from Detroit. I know a lot of truck drivers and I have interacted with a number of them in my life. This guy they put on display was a professional speaker. He went out in front of 70,000 people and rambled on like he was in the local bar. He was well spoken and not the least bit nervous. He didn't come across as a truck driver to me. They followed that with some teacher who also started spewing out spainish as well. By then it was 9:30, Barrack was supposed to speak at 10:00. It was getting too late to watch for those of us who work, but then again, democrats don't care about the working class
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 08-29-2008 at 08:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    But the best part about capitalism is that the competition that found a way to do it cheaper and better are usually the cause of the "goose's" death. This winds up being to the benefit of the consumer.

    So they complain about high wages, but not about high profits. So what?

    Don't we all do that? Is there anyone out there that admits to being paid too much? Pretty nonsensical argument.
    Bill Gates and Donald Trump come to mind. And I don't think they complain about it either. But it isn't just the high wages. You also need to include the environmental regulations, safety regulations, EEO stuff, as well as other anti-business mandates. The real killer was this thing called NAFTA. It was first put on the table by Bush Sr. and Clinton put it in place. That little agreement has hurt the American worker and the American economy in the worst way. We are just now feeling the true effects of NAFTA.

    What some people don't seem to get is that big business isn't like big government. Business needs to make a profit, the government simply prints more money.

    FYI, if anyone out there is making too much money I can use a little help here. Heck just pay my taxes and I'm good. Imagine not losing 1/2 your pay check for a year or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    So they complain about high wages, but not about high profits. So what?
    Because in order for the people doing the work to be able to buy things they need to be paid a wage that will allow them to do just that.

    If very few people are making a lot of money, and many people are making very little money, the ability to purchase goods and services is diminshed. It's how an economy works.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Imagine not losing 1/2 your pay check for a year or so.
    I've visited countries where people pay little or no taxes. I doubt you would want to live there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Because in order for the people doing the work to be able to buy things they need to be paid a wage that will allow them to do just that.

    If very few people are making a lot of money, and many people are making very little money, the ability to purchase goods and services is diminshed. It's how an economy works.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Then how does an economy work o wise one?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Because in order for the people doing the work to be able to buy things they need to be paid a wage that will allow them to do just that.

    If very few people are making a lot of money, and many people are making very little money, the ability to purchase goods and services is diminshed. It's how an economy works.
    Again.... so what?

    If people can't afford goods, they don't buy them and the market adjusts.

    It's how an economy works.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Again.... so what?

    If people can't afford goods, they don't buy them and the market adjusts.

    It's how an economy works.
    You believe that pricing isn't affected by the subsidies you believe the oil companies should receive?

    I receive a tax break. Which I agree is an indirect subsidy. But I have to earn the money in order to qualify. In the case of the oil companies, they are given direct subsidies irrespective of their earnings.

    Which is a socialist concept. I've been called that and worse on these boards in a derogatory manner. But I guess it's okay if it benefits a group that you approve.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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