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  1. #61
    Forum Member edge1317's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    If we were serious about ending gun crime here is what we would do, anytime a gun was used in a crime additional time is added that can't be plea bargained away. So even if the criminal gets a slap on the wrist for robbing the 7-11 he still gets 10 or 20 years for using a gun. No parole for that part of the sentence. You serve it all.
    I like this idea alot but I can't see this working in the real world. We will use 15 years "must serve all time" as the punishment for using a firearm in the act of a crime. Say the criminal can plea down the crime to a one year sentence. So if the criminal pleas the crime he will get 16 years, but if he fights it he may be found not guilty or if found guilty he will serve say 18 years (I have no idea how much time crimes actually will give you, it's just an example.). I figure given that choice many criminals would risk those 2 extra years to take the case to court to attempt to avoid the mandatory 15 year period. This will result in much more work for our court system, bogging it down even more. With this mandatory sentence our prisons and jails will fill and become overcrowded, where are we going to put all the inmates that we simply can't let out for 15 years?

    I think it would lower gun crimes but we would need the resources to make it work for a longer period of time.


  2. #62
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edge1317 View Post
    I like this idea alot but I can't see this working in the real world. We will use 15 years "must serve all time" as the punishment for using a firearm in the act of a crime. Say the criminal can plea down the crime to a one year sentence. So if the criminal pleas the crime he will get 16 years, but if he fights it he may be found not guilty or if found guilty he will serve say 18 years (I have no idea how much time crimes actually will give you, it's just an example.). I figure given that choice many criminals would risk those 2 extra years to take the case to court to attempt to avoid the mandatory 15 year period. This will result in much more work for our court system, bogging it down even more. With this mandatory sentence our prisons and jails will fill and become overcrowded, where are we going to put all the inmates that we simply can't let out for 15 years?

    I think it would lower gun crimes but we would need the resources to make it work for a longer period of time.
    Okay, you say my idea won't work because of prison space. Let me hear your plan. I would love to see something actually be done to penalize criminals while leaving me and my legally owned and used firearms alone.

    If it was up to me I would elimnate plea bargains and set mandatory sentencing that NO ONE not even federal agencies can supercede. Crime does pay in this country and every day proves it more and more.

  3. #63
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 1835Wayne
    YOUR rights have been trampled on!!

    Excuse me????

    Have you been paying any attention whatsoever to whats been happening to our "rights" since GWB and his morality police have been in charge? And I guess you also missed the fact that your government of the people, by the people and for the people can now spy on you and detain you without just cause.

    Talk about mindless...
    Well Dave, I am not talking about the current adminstration. I am as appaled at some of the things they have done as you are. I am talking about what just happened. I am discussing THAT issue, not everything else under the sun.

    I disdain a good bit of the "Patriot" act. I also disdain the actions of Nancy Pelosi. Do you have anything to say about her??

    I can not call what she has done an "adjournment". It was a hijacking.
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
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  4. #64
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    txgp17

    You seem to take issue with my statement that I am a conservative. I am fairly certain that if you took a poll of some the posters here that have been around longer than a week, you would find almost unanimous agreement on the subject. What bothers you so much?

    If I state that the Republican controlled Congress and the Republican Administration completely squandered the opportunity to advance their agenda and continue the prosperity begun in the Reagan Administration, that doesn't make me any less of a conservative.

    If I state that the President has performed admirably in many situations, but has been a complete embarrasment in terms of illegal immigration, taking years to formulate a cogent policy on the war in Iraq and in developing energy polciy, that doesn't make me any less of a conservative.

    If I state that I fully and completely support the constitutional right the keep and bear arms, yet I believe two important things; certain people should not have weapons and people shouldn't have certain weapons, that doesn't make me any less of a conservative.

    Many people have trouble with the distinction between being a conservative and being a Republican. I don't.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  5. #65
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm sure you'll be just as happy with the infringements of the 4th Ammendment (such as warrantless wiretapping) when a Dem is in the White House.
    Would this be the same Democrat (Barack Obama) who voted to renew teh Patriot Act?

    Those facts can be pesky things. Many Democrats voted to renew it, in its entirety.

    As for the 4th adn 5th amendment infringments, I am appaled by them as much as any attempt on the other 18 active amendments (being that 12 was repeales.) However, iyou shallenge them in court, the same court that ruled that the phrase "the People" means the same thing in the seconds as it does in many other amendments.

    Convenient that you forgot about the legal challenges brought against the holding of people in Gitmo - and the same 9 justices ruling on them.......and that the President could/would not act on their listening without the culpability of Congress as well.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    txgp17

    You seem to take issue with my statement that I am a conservative.

    Many people have trouble with the distinction between being a conservative and being a Republican. I don't.
    I don't have any trouble discerning a conservative from a Republican. And I didn't say that you weren't conservative. There's a difference between being "conservative" and being "the most conservative one on here," which is how you described yourself.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

  7. #67
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    I'm sorry, but the moment you start picking and choosing when parts of the Consitution to follow and ignoring the rest, you begin the end of the nation.

    Pelosi was out of line. Sorry, but when there are objections to a motion, you don't just do what you want anyways. That's not how our system works. I don't care what party someone is part of. Right is right, wrong is wrong. What is there to debate? Seriously?

  8. #68
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I've nothing to hide. Go ahead. Look all you want. The ones who are afraid are the ones with something to hide.
    The problem is that there is now a legal precedent. Yeah the current administration is looking at one group. But another administration can turn it right around and look at another group that they do not like - and you might be a member of.

    Government, "controlled" by either political party in this country needs to be watched , because it will inevitably abuse its powers.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  9. #69
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Now, just how do you figure that?
    It is a novel subject called mathematics. A high figure I feel, but that is how he derived it.


    Federal gas tax of 18 cents and state gas taxes vary significantly. Quite a chunk of change in reality, whiel our highways, roads, and bridges literally crumble away.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  10. #70
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Wow. What a fact-filled response. You really knocked that one out of the park, didn't you? Was someone else setting policy for all those years? Surely George W. "I haven't heard anything about four dollar a gallon gas" Bush isn't to blame.
    Can the righties get any dumber??
    LOL, sorry I didn't take the time to contribute to this high brow, so important discussion..

    Give me a break.

    Just save us all the time, and in your replies simply put, "It's all Bush's Fault".

    OH boy, if Obama wins... what on earth will you do??
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  11. #71
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    No, officially, recess had not begun. Voices from BOTH sides of the aisle were demanding an electronic vote on whether to approve the motion to adjourn. Why was Nancy so afraid to allow it to continue? Why did she cut off the microphones and cameras? Why were the lights turned out? And, lastly, why were the reporters not only thrown out of the gallery, but out of the building entirely? What was she afraid of?

    Or did she have to leave immediately to start her vacation, because she would lose time due to that pesky that fuel stop (because she was denied that 767 she wanted so that she could fly back home non-stop?)

    Just how much ARE the greenies paying her to fook the american people?
    Stop introducing facts!

    You fail to address the chief argument, "it's all Bush's fault!".

    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  12. #72
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm sure you'll be just as happy with the infringements of the 4th Ammendment (such as warrantless wiretapping) when a Dem is in the White House.
    The program you refer to is the monitoring of communications from a known terrorist from outside the US with individuals inside the US.

    I hope the monitoring continues.

    General Hayden (Director of the NSA, and a member of our intelligence community) stressed the NSA respect for the Fourth Amendment, stating at the National Press Club on January 23, 2006 that, "Had this program been in effect prior to 9/11, it is my professional judgment that we would have detected some of the 9/11 al Qaeda operatives in the United States, and we would have identified them as such."


    OH and Obama already said he wouldn't use this sort of program.
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 08-04-2008 at 08:27 AM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Now, just how do you figure that?
    It is posted at a lot of the staions around here

    however The taxes behind a $4 gallon of gas: The Real Deal

    Nearly 33 cents of every gallon you buy goes to Albany. And on a $4 gallon of gasoline, if there's no cap, the county gets 4 percent, or 15 cents.

    Add it all up, and youíre paying just about 67 cents in taxes on one gallon of gas.
    ...
    New Yorkers pay the most taxes on gasoline in the country, followed by Hawaiians and Californians who pay just over 60 cents a gallon
    I wonder if it is a coincidence that the 2 most liberal states in the nation pay the highest taxes?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Sorry Scarecrow, you're wrong a bit here. the arctic circle lays at 66 degrees 33 mins and there is no oil coming out of there by Canada. Some companies like HBOG, Dome Petroleum and PetroCanada drilled there and found oil alright, but its still there because its too hard and expensive to get south. The Noggies and the Cloggies are nowhere near drilling inside the arctic circle and while Russia has done a bit, its still in the ground too. Drilling in the wildlife refuge may make a difference in a long term outlook, but it would be 20 years before any appreciable difference would be felt in the lower 48. Plain and simple is there needs to be a lot more effort put into an alternative energy source and it sure as heck won't be wind or bio fuels.

    Had to dig for this one. It came out a few weeks ago
    Oil in the Arctic ó The New Northwest Passage? from the article
    Big Oil already has experience in the Arctic ó the development of Alaskaís North Slope in the 1970s brought in such giants as BP, Shell, and ConocoPhillips, all of which currently jointly own and operate the 800-mile long Alyeska Pipeline, which links the oil fields of Prudhoe Bay to the port of Valdez. Russian and Canadian companies have had similar success in exploiting onshore Arctic oil and gas assets in their countries.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I always laugh outrageously at comments like this.

    You're truly naive to believe that public investment in the form of health, education, infrastructure, or security have not had a positive impact on development of the US as a superpower.
    Not what I said. What I said is business made this country wealthy, government stands in the way of wealth. In fact, through environmental, safety, workers rights and NAFTA we are pushing jobs off shore. Not saying any of those things are bad, just that there are consequences.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    This is exactly the same type of activity we (the US) would criticize the KGB for performing on their citizens.

    I guess my belief in the Constitution goes beyond yours.
    ROFLMAO!!!!! First you trash the 2nd amendment, then cry about the 4th and 5th. You cannot selectively pick which part of the constitution you favor. It's an all or nothing.

    Although, I haven't seen any citizens rights violated here. We want to be bale to listen to conversations of non-citizens in foreign countries. Seems we should have the right to inspect that which is coming into the country.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlcooke3 View Post
    Actually I was thinking of two specific instances.
    1. Terrorist/Combatant detainees and whether or not they should receive the same protection under our Constitution in regards to civilian law or should they be held under military law. My personal thoughts on this is that these particular individuals whether captured overseas or in the United States should be prosecuted according to military law.

    2. Illegal Aliens that commit crimes on U.S. soil. At what point does the rights afforded to U.S. citizens carry over to those who are not citizens and are not here legally?

    We'll skip the torture debate for now as I was thinking more inline with what due process rights, search and seizure rights, etc. that non-citizens should be entitled to.
    My 3 cents on these issues.

    1. These are not US citizens, in fact, they are foreigners accused of acts of war against the US. Certainly, the U.S. constitution does not apply. Things that would apply are the Geneva Convention, international law, and military law.

    2. Illegal immigrants (not to be confused with those here legally) have no rights. Make them pay their time in our prisons, then ship them back

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I... If we were serious about ending gun crime here is what we would do, anytime a gun was used in a crime additional time is added that can't be plea bargained away. So even if the criminal gets a slap on the wrist for robbing the 7-11 he still gets 10 or 20 years for using a gun. No parole for that part of the sentence. You serve it all. ..
    Interesting concept. NY tried that with the Rockefeller Drug Laws. Now the liberals and special interest ethnic groups are crying that the laws are too harsh. They need to be repealed. People like Al Sharpton cry the laws unfairly target blacks. Of course, everyone, regardless of ethnicity, are subjected to the same laws.

    For some reason, which I don't understand, the liberals don't want to hold people accountable for their own actions. Liberals hold the view that society is to blame, not the individual.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    The problem is that there is now a legal precedent. Yeah the current administration is looking at one group. But another administration can turn it right around and look at another group that they do not like - and you might be a member of.

    Government, "controlled" by either political party in this country needs to be watched , because it will inevitably abuse its powers.
    Very good point, which is why the congress also approved of the actions. The President alone did not send us to Iraq or pass the Patriot act. Congress approved as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    LOL, sorry I didn't take the time to contribute to this high brow, so important discussion..

    Give me a break.

    Just save us all the time, and in your replies simply put, "It's all Bush's Fault".

    OH boy, if Obama wins... what on earth will you do??
    My friend, we cannot afford either candidate with all of their spending plans. We need a candidate who will cut spending, not increase it. My previous predictions were that our country would crumble within the next 100 years. With the recent group of spenders, increased energy cost, combined with China's dominance of us, I believe the time frame is 50 years or less.

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