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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    “House Speaker Nancy Pelosi opposes lifting the moratorium on drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and on the Outer Continental Shelf. She won’t even allow it to come to a vote. With $4 gas having massively shifted public opinion in favor of domestic production, she wants to protect her Democratic members from having to cast an anti-drilling election-year vote. Moreover, given the public mood, she might even lose. This cannot be permitted. Why? Because as she explained to Politico: ‘I’m trying to save the planet; I’m trying to save the planet.’ A lovely sentiment... There are a dizzying number of economic and national security arguments for drilling at home: a $700 billion oil balance-of-payment deficit, a gas tax (equivalent) levied on the paychecks of American workers and poured into the treasuries of enemy and terror-supporting regimes, growing dependence on unstable states of the Persian Gulf and Caspian basin. Pelosi and the Democrats stand athwart shouting: We don’t care. We come to save the planet! They seem blissfully unaware that the argument for their drill-there-not-here policy collapses on its own environmental terms.” —Charles Krauthammer
    Isn't it funny how Save the Planet only applies to the U.S. How come they don't seem to care what happens in China and Mexico. How come it is OK to drill in Canada or Venezuela or Mexico? Aren't they part of the planet too? Ms. Pelosi needs to try again, he double speak doesn't fool me.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Chief
    A couple of things I agree with you on, The US or even North America won't crumble, but we all better start taking our head out of the sand if we don't want to end up like some of the less enlightened Euro countries. We need to find energy solutions within our own borders, not necessarily more oil, because that is short term bandage at best. If a lot of the money that is being squandered on the stupid war in Iraq, the Canadian equal rights and immigration system, subsidies to big oil by both countries, and political correctness, we could put that money into finding more efficient energy sources. If we keep on like we are doing, we are going to be falling further and further behind in the world economy.
    Yes at this point China does need us because we are such big consumers, but, as more money flows to China as well as India and other Asian countries, they will become their own consumers and won't need us so much. Also as our economies get weaker, we won't have to money to consume so much, which may well be a good thing.
    Yes Regan did put the USSR under, but they are now coming on pretty damn strong under Putin and Medvedev. They have Siberia, which for all intents and purposes is virtually unexplored or unexploited and they are taking control of it again. Witness whats happening to BP and to Shell. They are still a world power and will continue to grow a lot faster than we are. North America needs to quit being the worlds policeman, the worlds dumping ground for refugees, the arbiter of political correctness. We need to be use the abilities that grew our countries into solving our problems, not the worlds. I use Canada and the US together here as we are going to be inextricably twined IMHO for a long time.
    I agree we need to find better sources for energy, but we also need to leverage what we already have. Hydro-electric as well as wind power seem to be the best alternatives right now. Problem with solar is that in the winter months there isn't much sunshine. Problem with hydro is the environmentalist. In fact, around here, the enviros object to wind towers. Is it any wonder the environmentalist are also referred to as anti-people?

  3. #103
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    Back to the topic of the thread...you know, the one where the Rethuglicans attempted to attach their energy nonsense to a bill concerning veterans. Gotta love how the idiots on the right booed the Veterans of Foreign Wars. Classy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Try again. Your graph shows GSP per capita. That means per resident of that state. When the total GSP is shown,CA is first with NY second at about 60% of CA. CT is 23rd, and DE is 40th. Los Angeles County has twice as many residents than both CT and DE combined. That's the largest county in the state. There are 55 others.


    What do you mean DID try? When you say government agencies are a burden on the economy, does that include the DoD, CIA, FBI, CDC, or Interstate Highway System? DoD personnel and resources have been used more than once to protect American business interests abroad. Can you point anyone to any significant infrastructure development (roads, sewers, water projects, etc) by the private sector enabling the more efficient transporting of goods and services? Given there are big business interests who survive at the trough is all the example I need of the incestuous relationship between the two. The business community rants and raves about the business climate but has no problem seeking a tarif, tax exemption, subsidy, or especially a nice no-bid contract from the very entity they claim is detrimental. And BTW. This is a firefighter forum. Would you care to claim the taxes used to fund those agencies are a burden to society or that society doesn't benefit?


    I never said it was a practical idea. And your example is one of the many reasons why it will never happen.
    NY, CA, and DE all have things that make their numbers skewed. De has a large number of corporations that are incorporated there simply because it is easy to do and less of a burden. NY has wall street and the financial district. CA has Hollywood. CA has the largest population and NY is 3rd in population. Texas is second. Looking at it on a per capita basis is more insightful and tells more of the story.

    And yes, government is a burden on business as well as individuals. 43% of my pay check comes right off the top for Federal, State, and SSI taxes. I then get taxed again on the remainder with an 8.25% sales tax, land taxes, and various other hidden taxes and fees (like the 70 cents a gallon at the pump). Unfortunately, our government has learned how to steal from the people. The economy would be far better if that money stayed in the private sector.

    And yes big business lines up for it's cut of the pie ( farm subsidies make me want to puke). But on the other side are the special interest groups, getting an equal cut of the pie. A great example of this is right here in NY state. We have what is known as the Adirondack Park. It is a 6 million acre park in which the state owns half the land. They have done this because the environmentalist want to preserve this area as forever wild. Keep in mind that the number of people who visit the park in it's forever wild areas is less than 0.1% of the population. Yet we pay heavily for this. I say put the money in the hands of the people. Then if the environmentalism want this "pristine" land they can afford it themselves and buy it. My guess is that only a few would feel strongly enough to actually put up.

    By taxing me so heavily they are slowly eroding my personal freedom and forcing me to support things I don't want to support. And this is true for every American.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Back to the topic of the thread...you know, the one where the Rethuglicans attempted to attach their energy nonsense to a bill concerning veterans. Gotta love how the idiots on the right booed the Veterans of Foreign Wars. Classy.

    My friend, the topic of this thread is how the folks in DC acted irresponsibly and just walked off the job. Just once I wish they would stop acting like children and work to solve our problems. Even I can see that the solution is to open up areas for drilling to increase the supply of oil. And at the same time they need to start encouraging the use of alternative sources. Screw the landscape or scenic view, put up the wind towers. Tap into the numerous sources of hydro electric. Dam up the grand canyon and place huge turbines at the bottom to produce all the energy we need (just kidding ). But there are numerous places that cold take advantage of this hydro. How many reservoirs have been built to provide water for cities? Why not put turbines in those to generate electricity? And find out why if I go to buy green power off the grid I have to pay more, not less for the electricity.

    The folks on the hill are so polarized that they are forgetting to do what is best for the country. I laugh when you hear the democrats crying about some initiative or bill George Bush wants. They tell us how bad it is and why it is wrong. And then the bill passes! What they are really saying is that the initiative or bill is a good one, we just have to make believe it is bad just so we appear to be the opposite.

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    the repubicrats don't care about the average person. they can afford gas even if it goes up to $10 a gallon. they live off of the taxpayers and give themselves raises regardless of how good of a job the people think they're doing. we live in a plutocracy, so all that matters is what the rich people want, hence bush's tax cuts that the middle class is paying for. rich democrats poo poo the tax cuts but they benefit from them so they don't really mind. both parties suck.

    should we open up areas for drilling? i have no idea, but there has to be lots of money to be made in alternative energy. the problem is how some of our cities were designed that forces one to have a car to get things like food, clothing, so on and so forth. the price of gas has always been high in europe, but there cities were designed before cars, therefore one could walk to get what one needs, and they do, that's why they're more healthy than us. the fact is the price of gas is going to continue to go up as long as corporations like exxon are raking in billion dollar quarter profits. better invest in a scooter or bike, because the price will continue to go up and up. or, move to venezuala where the price of gas in like 12-25 cents a gallon.

    we need to make a lot of changes as a society about they way we live. not depending on the people in congress to change anything is a good start. the people of this country have the power and need to exert it.

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    My friend, the topic of this thread is how the folks in DC acted irresponsibly and just walked off the job.
    Bull shi!t. The topic is "Chicken**** Nancy Pelosi", an attack on her and the Democratic party for merely voting to adjourn the House, something that happens every August by law. Did you even watch the clip? Of course you didn't. How do you feel about the Rethuglican crybabies booing the statements of the VFW?
    Just once I wish they would stop acting like children and work to solve our problems.
    The only ones acting like children are the Republicans, who are merely grandstanding and pulling election year shenanigans. This is quite clear to anyone making an honest observation.
    Even I can see that the solution is to open up areas for drilling to increase the supply of oil.
    Irrelevant to the topic at hand, and an exercise in ignorance at best. The House adjourned, stopping the Republicans sideshow of attempting to attach energy policy content to a bill that was meant to address veterans and military issues. When they didn't get their way, they started acting like spoiled brats. Will misguided people like you still be around when the oil companies have exploited the last drop of oil from everywhere? What will you say the answer will be then? Drilling is not the answer, because the supplies are always finite and it's only a matter of time before people like you start your arrogant wailings again, expecting taxpayers to bailout billionaires in the oil business.

    The rest of your post is nothing but a pathetic attempt to distract from the real issue at hand. The Republicans are the ones being unreasonable, and anyone defending their actions are either utterly confused on the issue, or are being as stupid as the Republican crybabies in the House.

    Why do you refuse to address the issue? This has zero to do with any real advancement on energy, and everything to do with business as usual by the Republicans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    i don't offer up conspiracy theories, just the facts about what is going on. if that makes me a radical, then so be it. there's no need for black helicopters when the public is uneducated and misinformed.
    Don't quote what others are telling you... quote the law where it says that. The two wingnuts you quoted are hardly a reputable source. Be a free thinker, read the laws and then talk to me.

    I read the actual law and it does not exist.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Back to the topic of the thread...you know, the one where the Rethuglicans attempted to attach their energy nonsense to a bill concerning veterans. Gotta love how the idiots on the right booed the Veterans of Foreign Wars. Classy.
    I love your cute little sayings... "rethuglicans"... classic.

    I have one, "Demoweasels" or how about "Wehateamerica-crats".

    By the way, I love how Obama has flip-flopped yet again and will now concede to off-shore drilling.

    The great centrist migration has begun! It's a great democratic tradition where the democractic nominee must appear more of a centrist to try to win the general election, and be dishonest about their true beliefs.

    So much fun!
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Drilling is not the answer, because the supplies are always finite and it's only a matter of time before people like you start your arrogant wailings again, expecting taxpayers to bailout billionaires in the oil business.
    Talk about clueless...

    OF COURSE we must drill more. How could finding more oil not help the cost of oil? It most certainly will, and yes, it will not help this year, but we must prepare for the future and explore now. How can anyone not see this?

    Should we explore other options, absolutely. However, while we wait for the car that runs on Obama's flip-flops and lies we need to find oil.

    What is your opposition to drilling more? Environmental? Anti-corporation? Black helicopters? Do you hate roughnecks??????

    WHAT could possibly be the reason?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  11. #111
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    Thumbs up Ok................

    Here's a bit of advice:

    DUMP THE INCUMBENTS!!


    We, as a nation, will elect (or reelect) every house member, and one third of the Senate in November of this year. If EVERY Incumbent is turned out of office on Election Day, EVERY Politician in the Country will get the message.

    LET'S DO IT!!..........
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    Better yet,fire the whole lot and put some working class folk in there who know what it's like out here. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    the price of gas has always been high in europe, but there cities were designed before cars, therefore one could walk to get what one needs, and they do, that's why they're more healthy than us. the fact is the price of gas is going to continue to go up as long as corporations like exxon are raking in billion dollar quarter profits. better invest in a scooter or bike, because the price will continue to go up and up. or, move to venezuala where the price of gas in like 12-25 cents a gallon.[/b]
    I TOTALLY agree. I love how the design of Europe is, as you said more walking compatible. A few neighborhoods being developed are being built next to plazas with Wal-Marts, grocery stores, video shops, barber shops, tanning, etc that have bike/walking paths from the neighborhood to the plaza. Very neat idea, but very expensive to buy a home there.

    I live in a neighborhood surrounded by farms. Grocery stores and basic living needs would require a car or a five hour walk to get there and back. Designing more living areas close to grocery stores, etc is what i'd love to see. A more europe-like approach as you've said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Don't quote what others are telling you... quote the law where it says that. The two wingnuts you quoted are hardly a reputable source. Be a free thinker, read the laws and then talk to me.

    I read the actual law and it does not exist.
    so congressmen aren't reputable sources now? interesting. i guess they're only reputable if you agree with them. ron paul and dennis kucinich have their faults, but they were not the only ones who were against it, but i guess those other guys are just crazy too. and i quoted how the law defines homegrown terrorism, etc, so yes, i have read the law. i am a free thinker that's why i'm against any kind of government commission to investigate the american people. it's been done before with the House Un-American Activities Committee searching for communists and subversives.

    what you says does not exist (i'm assuming you are talking about S. 1858: Newborn Screening Saves Lives Act of 2007 and taking dna) does. how is the government going to study genetic disorders without taking ones dna? the law states in SEC. 1112. CLEARINGHOUSE OF NEWBORN SCREENING INFORMATION.

    `(a) In General- The Secretary, acting through the Administrator of the Health Resources and Services Administration (referred to in this part as the `Administrator'), in consultation with the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Director of the National Institutes of Health, shall establish and maintain a central clearinghouse of current educational and family support and services information, materials, resources, research, and data on newborn screening.

    a central clearinghouse can also be called a database or a warehouse of info.

    in SEC. 1116. HUNTER KELLY RESEARCH PROGRAM.

    `(a) Newborn Screening Activities-

    `(1) IN GENERAL- The Secretary, in conjunction with the Director of the National Institutes of Health and taking into consideration the recommendations of the Advisory Committee, may continue carrying out, coordinating, and expanding research in newborn screening (to be known as `Hunter Kelly Newborn Screening Research Program') including--

    `(A) identifying, developing, and testing the most promising new screening technologies, in order to improve already existing screening tests, increase the specificity of newborn screening, and expand the number of conditions for which screening tests are available;

    `(B) experimental treatments and disease management strategies for additional newborn conditions, and other genetic, metabolic, hormonal and or functional conditions that can be detected through newborn screening for which treatment is not yet available; and

    `(C) other activities that would improve newborn screening, as identified by the Director.

    `(2) ADDITIONAL NEWBORN CONDITION- For purposes of this subsection, the term `additional newborn condition' means any condition that is not one of the core conditions recommended by the Advisory Committee and adopted by the Secretary.

    therefore it will establish a national list of genetic conditions for which newborns and children are to be tested. establish protocols for the linking
    and sharing of genetic test results nationwide. build surveillance systems for
    tracking the health status and health outcomes of individuals diagnosed
    at birth with a genetic defect or trait. use the newborn screening program
    as an opportunity for government agencies to identify, list, and study
    “secondary conditions” of individuals and their families. subject citizens to genetic research without their knowledge or consent.

    genetics = DNA

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    so congressmen aren't reputable sources now? interesting. i guess they're only reputable if you agree with them. ron paul and dennis kucinich have their faults, but they were not the only ones who were against it, but i guess those other guys are just crazy too. and i quoted how the law defines homegrown terrorism, etc, so yes, i have read the law. i am a free thinker that's why i'm against any kind of government commission to investigate the american people. it's been done before with the House Un-American Activities Committee searching for communists and subversives.
    Oh please spare me... Kucinich is a nutjob.

    Great, so they have given a definition to homegrown terrorism, so what.

    Comparing this to the McCarthy investigation really shows your complete lack of understanding regarding this law and the McCarthy hearings.


    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    therefore it will establish a national list of genetic conditions for which newborns and children are to be tested. establish protocols for the linking
    and sharing of genetic test results nationwide. build surveillance systems for tracking the health status and health outcomes of individuals diagnosed at birth with a genetic defect or trait. use the newborn screening program
    as an opportunity for government agencies to identify, list, and study “secondary conditions” of individuals and their families. subject citizens to genetic research without their knowledge or consent.

    genetics = DNA
    I DEFY you to show me where in the law it states that the government will take a sample of your child's dna without your consent. WHERE is it??? It does not exist.

    Also, as far as how this information will be used, it will be used for research and developing better screening practices at certain research facilities (there were only 4 of these in the state of PA). It will more than likely even be blinded. This is all standard in medical research.

    Furthermore, this program named for Jim Kelly's son who died of Krabbe's disease is designed to research ways to screen newborns for certain diseases.

    Why screen them? Well, because some of these metabolic diseases prevent the proper breakdown of food and simply adhering to a special diet would prevent serious complications such as mental retardation. The rest of the panel of 29 diseases like, cystic fibrosis, are better treated with early detection.

    The fact that some whackos, like the esteemed Ron Paul and Krazy Kucinich would warp this great bill into something it is not makes me wonder about the people they represent.

    This bill had bi-lateral support and I hate to say it, but Hillary Clinton even pushed for it.

    More information.

    NEWBORN GENETIC SCREENING: SOME STATES EXPANDING THE LIST OF CONDITIONS
    By Alissa Johnson

    For former Buffalo Bills quarterback Jim Kelly, the issue of screening newborns for genetic and metabolic disorders is personal. His son Hunter was not diagnosed as having Krabbe leukodystrophy until four months after his birth. Unable to swallow, Hunter and his parents battled the disease for eight years until the boy's death. "Every child deserves a chance at a good life, and if there is a way that we can make sure they have that chance, let's do it," he said.

    Hunter’s condition is just one of many in which an early diagnosis may mean a world of difference. State public health programs screen an estimated 4.1 million newborns annually for genetic and metabolic disorders. Early detection of many abnormalities can prevent severe disability, mental retardation or even death. It may also save states and families money by avoiding financially burdensome medical costs and state institutional services. But whether a newborn receives screening for a particular condition depends on his or her birthplace. The list of conditions screened for at birth (referred to as a newborn screening panel) differs from state to state. This disparity and the technological advances that allow for expanded screening have led some groups, such as the March of Dimes, to ask all states to screen for a basic uniform panel.

    After evaluating scientific evidence, the American College of Medical Genetics recommended certain conditions for which all infants should be screened. It was a challenge, according to Michael Watson, executive director. "Because of the rarity of the diseases, there was not an enormous literature base for the conditions. So we focused on a two-tiered approach using experts to evaluate these conditions. We went through newborn screening programs all over the world and identified any condition that had been screened."
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Okay, you say my idea won't work because of prison space. Let me hear your plan. I would love to see something actually be done to penalize criminals while leaving me and my legally owned and used firearms alone.

    If it was up to me I would elimnate plea bargains and set mandatory sentencing that NO ONE not even federal agencies can supercede. Crime does pay in this country and every day proves it more and more.
    I would love to see your plan implemented and work, I was merely stating that I can't see it working in the real world with our current resources and court system. As for my plan, I haven't got any that would work in the real world either. I don't know if you thought I was somehow advocating gun control, I'm not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    so congressmen aren't reputable sources now? interesting. ...
    ROFLMAO!!!!!!! You are talking about the most corrupt group of individuals know to man (AKA Politicians). They have been literally caught in the men's room, the white house, and numerous other places with their pants down. They have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar. They have come up with crazy pork barrel spending that is just stupid. They are constantly bought out by special interest and big business.

    If a demcrap says the sky is green the rethuglian will say it is orange. These idiots will take the opposite stand if it is the right thing to do.

    So NO!!!! Congressman are not reputable

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    If one wades through all of your heavy hand leftist liberal BS they actually find a couple of sentences of good debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Bull shi!t. The topic is "Chicken**** Nancy Pelosi", an attack on her and the Democratic party for merely voting to adjourn the House, something that happens every August by law. Did you even watch the clip? Of course you didn't. How do you feel about the Rethuglican crybabies booing the statements of the VFW?
    In case you missed it, they all walked off. Fact is, a true leader would have said let's stay and fix this.

    The only ones acting like children are the Republicans, who are merely grandstanding and pulling election year shenanigans. This is quite clear to anyone making an honest observation.
    You sir are confused or have your head in the sand. They ALL at like children. Look at Nancy. She couldn't get her way so she took her toys and went home like some little brat.

    Irrelevant to the topic at hand, and an exercise in ignorance at best. The House adjourned, stopping the Republicans sideshow of attempting to attach energy policy content to a bill that was meant to address veterans and military issues. When they didn't get their way, they started acting like spoiled brats. Will misguided people like you still be around when the oil companies have exploited the last drop of oil from everywhere? What will you say the answer will be then? Drilling is not the answer, because the supplies are always finite and it's only a matter of time before people like you start your arrogant wailings again, expecting taxpayers to bailout billionaires in the oil business.

    The rest of your post is nothing but a pathetic attempt to distract from the real issue at hand. The Republicans are the ones being unreasonable, and anyone defending their actions are either utterly confused on the issue, or are being as stupid as the Republican crybabies in the House.

    Why do you refuse to address the issue? This has zero to do with any real advancement on energy, and everything to do with business as usual by the Republicans.
    What is really relevant is solving the nations energy crisis. Something Ms Pelosi is incapable of doing.

    We need to use our own natural resources, this despite the `Al Gores of the Nation. But at the same time, we need to start moving towards other forms of energy. Recall, it was the head liberal (the Kennedys) who objected to a wind farm of the coast of cape cod. That tells you right there they really don't care about solving the problem. Their main concern is how can they profit from the fear they have created.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Better yet,fire the whole lot and put some working class folk in there who know what it's like out here. T.C.
    The problem is that smart people realize this is the worst job in the world. This is why we don't see smart people going into politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Oh please spare me... Kucinich is a nutjob.

    Great, so they have given a definition to homegrown terrorism, so what.

    Comparing this to the McCarthy investigation really shows your complete lack of understanding regarding this law and the McCarthy hearings.
    i don't believe kucinich is a nut job. you must not have read all of what i said in my previous reply. in the definition of homegrown terrorism the law differentiates between force and violence. the term `homegrown terrorism' according to the law means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives. it also defines the term `ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs. obviously the law sees force as something different than violence. force is defined by Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary as (1): strength or energy exerted or brought to bear : cause of motion or change : active power (2)capitalized —used with a number to indicate the strength of the wind according to the Beaufort scale b: moral or mental strength c: capacity to persuade or convince. so what if the law said that homegrown terrorism means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of moral or mental strength or violence. or the use, planned use, or threatened use, of the capacity to persuade or convince or violence. laws are all about semantics so they use the vague term force which can be defined in different ways. defined this way the civil rights movement, women's sufferage, and the labor movement were all forms of homegrown terrorism and ideologically based violence. so whom will this commission be investigating?

    the House Un-American Activities Committee was actually started in 1938. mccarthy used it as a precedent for his own witch hunt, and it took on different incarnations with different names after that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I DEFY you to show me where in the law it states that the government will take a sample of your child's dna without your consent. WHERE is it??? It does not exist.
    show me where it says they won't. if they are screening your child for genetic disorders and warehousing that info, they will have your child's dna. if they have your child's blood they have your child's dna. you wouldn't know if they took your child's dna because after a baby is born they run a bunch of tests on it out of your presence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    ROFLMAO!!!!!!! You are talking about the most corrupt group of individuals know to man (AKA Politicians). They have been literally caught in the men's room, the white house, and numerous other places with their pants down. They have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar. They have come up with crazy pork barrel spending that is just stupid. They are constantly bought out by special interest and big business.

    If a demcrap says the sky is green the rethuglian will say it is orange. These idiots will take the opposite stand if it is the right thing to do.

    So NO!!!! Congressman are not reputable
    some are better than others. feingold warned us about the PATRIOT act because he actually read it and voted against it. but i agree they are full of ***** for the most part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    show me where it says they won't. if they are screening your child for genetic disorders and warehousing that info, they will have your child's dna. if they have your child's blood they have your child's dna. you wouldn't know if they took your child's dna because after a baby is born they run a bunch of tests on it out of your presence.
    Kucinich may not be a nut job, but you seem to be.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Kucinich may not be a nut job, but you seem to be.
    i've been called worse in my life. but, i'm not the only so-called nut job. the Citizens' Council on Health Care, (see http://www.cchconline.org/pdf/S_1858...mmaryFINAL.pdf) a non-profit, independent free-market health care policy organization that supports patient and doctor freedom, medical innovation, and the right to a confidential patient-doctor relationship, thinks along the same lines that i do about the act. you all can't consider that there may be people out there who have more insight on issues than you. you dismiss things as conspiracy theories because they don't fit your paradigm. i'm not an expert but the Citizens' Council on Health Care's job is to take on issues like these, so i believe they are more informed than you and chiefkn. the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons have stated that genetic testing could be used for purposes found immoral in the Hippocratic medical tradition, but i guess they're nut jobs too.

    my oldest is type 1 diabetic and i'm not with this act.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    show me where it says they won't. if they are screening your child for genetic disorders and warehousing that info, they will have your child's dna. if they have your child's blood they have your child's dna. you wouldn't know if they took your child's dna because after a baby is born they run a bunch of tests on it out of your presence.
    They can only screen your child with your permission. This law supports RESEARCH and it only supports this RESEARCH at certain centers. I beg you to please read the law very slowly so that you fully understand it.

    You have to agree to the screening, that is why the largest part of this law is to EDUCATE people on the value of testing. Again, READ the law.

    You are claiming things as fact that are NOT written in the law. You have let some alarmists influence you beyond the point of reasoning. When I ask you to prove your point, you ask me to then prove a negative (show you where it says they wont...) give me a break.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    They can only screen your child with your permission. This law supports RESEARCH and it only supports this RESEARCH at certain centers. I beg you to please read the law very slowly so that you fully understand it.

    You have to agree to the screening, that is why the largest part of this law is to EDUCATE people on the value of testing. Again, READ the law.

    You are claiming things as fact that are NOT written in the law. You have let some alarmists influence you beyond the point of reasoning. When I ask you to prove your point, you ask me to then prove a negative (show you where it says they wont...) give me a break.
    i've read the law and nowhere does it say that they need the parents' permission. the law (like most) is full of vague wording like newborn screening which is really genetic testing. the Citizens' Council on Health Care are not alarmists. their goals stated on their website are:

    -Individual patient and practitioner freedom in health care decision-making
    -Protection of patient autonomy and dignity through medical record privacy and strong patient consent provisions
    -Reduced dependency on government health care programs
    -Free and open health care market, including Medical Savings Accounts, and non-managed care health insurance options.
    -Market competition at the patient and consumer level.
    -Equal tax treatment for purchase of health care insurance
    -Privately-owned insurance independent from employment
    -Life-long insurance policies.
    -A charitable safety net strengthened through tax incentives
    -Elimination of taxes on health care services.

    see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBu6Tpvq_9w and watch Twila Brase, president of Citizens' Council on Health Care talk about DNA Warehouse and Ownership. but i guess you'll dismiss her as a nut job alarmist.
    also watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDw3z...eature=related, http://video.aol.com/video-detail/th...pt2/2472967511, http://video.aol.com/video-detail/th...pt3/2854844384
    and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mD5T...eature=related.

    like i said before, there are people who are more informed about what is going on in their specific field than you. i wouldn't argue with you about fire science, at least keep an open mind when listening to someone else talk about the field they're in. please watch the links and let me know what you think.

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