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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    NY, CA, and DE all have things that make their numbers skewed. De has a large number of corporations that are incorporated there simply because it is easy to do and less of a burden. NY has wall street and the financial district. CA has Hollywood. CA has the largest population and NY is 3rd in population. Texas is second. Looking at it on a per capita basis is more insightful and tells more of the story.
    Maybe it is in your little world. The real world is different. CA is one of the top ten economies in the world based upon its GSP. DE is a fly speck by comparison. Believe what you want, but you're alone in believing that DE is a more significant force in the US economy than CA. And btw. The most significant economic engine in CA is tourism and agriculture.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And yes, government is a burden on business as well as individuals. 43% of my pay check comes right off the top for Federal, State, and SSI taxes. I then get taxed again on the remainder with an 8.25% sales tax, land taxes, and various other hidden taxes and fees (like the 70 cents a gallon at the pump). Unfortunately, our government has learned how to steal from the people.
    Can you point me to a nation where the rate of taxation is lower and the quality of living is higher. If it has as lax an emigration policy as the US I'll pack my bags. I've traveled abroad to several nations where taxes are much lower than they are here in the US. I can assure you wouldn't want to live in any of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    The economy would be far better if that money stayed in the private sector.
    Hypothetical. Who knows. There are numerous examples of the private sector mismanaging its fiscal resources. They're called bankruptcies.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And yes big business lines up for it's cut of the pie ( farm subsidies make me want to puke). But on the other side are the special interest groups, getting an equal cut of the pie. A great example of this is right here in NY state. We have what is known as the Adirondack Park. It is a 6 million acre park in which the state owns half the land. They have done this because the environmentalist want to preserve this area as forever wild. Keep in mind that the number of people who visit the park in it's forever wild areas is less than 0.1% of the population. Yet we pay heavily for this. I say put the money in the hands of the people. Then if the environmentalism want this "pristine" land they can afford it themselves and buy it. My guess is that only a few would feel strongly enough to actually put up.
    Nothing stopping you from running for office with that as your platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    By taxing me so heavily they are slowly eroding my personal freedom and forcing me to support things I don't want to support. And this is true for every American.
    You posit a reality in which money belongs to the people who earn it. A fair concept. Likewise, however, the people’s government belongs to them, and they to it. Part of the social compact of belonging to a civil society is assisting in the upkeep of that society. You call that theft by taxation; I take a less nihilistic attitude toward it: it’s the price of being part of this society.

    Now, we can debate all we want about the proper role and extent of that government that we’ve established among ourselves, but our essential civic obligation to fund whatever we collectively deem a proper role for government is, or ought to be, unquestioned. It is, indeed, a form of patriotism. There’s a reason our system has such a low rate of tax delinquency compared to most of the rest of the world, and it’s not some inherent moral superiority. It’s a fundamental support and consent of the governed, which has been the unique hallmark of American society from its founding.
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-06-2008 at 12:49 AM.
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  2. #127
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    Lightbulb The Left is on the Run By Newt Gingrich

    August 5, 2008 - Vol. 3, No. 32

    The Left is on the Run By Newt Gingrich

    We have the left rattled and on the run. For proof, consider three developments from late last week.

    The House Republicans staged a protest in the House Chamber, demanding that Nancy Pelosi call the House back into session in order to vote on The American Energy Act, an "all of the above" energy strategy that includes more drilling, funding for scientific breakthroughs, as well as common-sense conservation efforts.

    Three signs we are winning the argument on energy:
    First, Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her anti-energy allies in the House skipped town without even scheduling a vote on The American Energy Act - the kind of common sense, "all of the above" energy strategy Americans favor.

    Then MoveOn.org sent a desperate email to their supporters asking for money to air an ad to slow the momentum of the movement for America to develop more American energy now.

    And Senator Obama, who until late last week opposed offshore drilling, said he would now favor offshore drilling as part of a comprehensive energy strategy for America.

    To block a vote on energy, Nancy Pelosi tried cutting the power in the House
    Pro-energy House Republicans are doing just that this week, refusing to let Nancy Pelosi and her anti-energy allies get away with ducking the energy issue.

    On Friday morning, Nancy Pelosi suddenly and without warning, adjourned the House of Representatives. She knew how badly the anti-energy left was losing the argument over energy and knew she couldn't allow a full day of discussion about the American Energy Act to take place in front of the C-Span cameras and press. So she called the vote to adjourn, and when House Republicans refused to leave, Nancy Pelosi ordered the microphones and lights in the House be turned off.

    Think about this: In order to block a vote on energy for America, Nancy Pelosi tried to cut off power to the House of Representatives.

    But Boehner and pro-energy representatives remembered where power really comes from. However, Rep. John Boehner and many other pro-energy representatives have refused to allow Nancy Pelosi to duck the energy issue. They know that Congress derives its power from the American people. Speaker Pelosi can't order that power supply shut off.

    They're still in Washington this week, making speeches on the House floor to visitors and press, and live-blogging their efforts.

    Here's a flavor of the House Republicans historic uprising:

    "We are the light of the world, we are the leaders of the free world. But when we depend on foreign energy we cannot be as strong of a leader as we should and can be." - Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA)

    "You need to let your congressman know that he or she works for you, not the Speaker of the House." - Rep. Mark Steven Kirk (R-IL)

    "Here's a letter from the Gardner family in Texas. They can't afford to both go on vacation and send their son to Boy Scout camp. They can't afford it. If the Gardners can't, then neither should Pelosi and the Congress!" - Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX)

    "Common sense is not very common in Washington, D.C... Why aren't we using all the resources that we Americans can bring to the table?... We need to use our American ingenuity to solve these problems...We will get it done if there's a vote on this floor." - Rep. Rob Wittman (R-VA):

    And perhaps most importantly, House Minority Leader John Boehner yesterday promised to keep up this pressure throughout the month of August:

    "The only way we're ever going to bring her to heel and allow a vote is for us to continue to put pressure on her. And so it's 25 Members we had in Congress today, led by Tom Price and Mike Pence. It's Members all over the country doing their townhall meetings, doing their rotary clubs, they're all talking about it. And we're going to keep talking about it until we get our vote." - John Boehner, OH


    Finally, and most importantly, write your representative to let them know you want them back in session to pass an energy bill and to applaud Boehner's leadership. Call talk radio as well. Nancy Pelosi may have turned off the lights in the House, but that doesn't mean we can't turn on the heat in response.

    - MoveOn.org Admits the Obvious: The Pro Energy Coalition is Winning the Argument

    Nancy Pelosi is not the only member of the anti-energy left looking desperate.

    In an urgent email sent to their members last week, the far Left activist group wrote about the national debate over how to best lower gas and energy prices, "Here's the truth: Right now, progressives are losing this argument."

    They're right. We are winning and the Left is losing the argument over our country's energy future because Americans know that thirty years of their policies has led to the current mess.

    For decades, anti-energy, left-wing politicians have advocated higher prices and less energy. They were going to save the environment by punishing Americans into driving less and driving smaller cars. They favor a policy of no oil and gas exploration, no use of coal, and no development of nuclear power.

    The result has been that over the last three decades, America has relied more and more on foreign oil rather than American oil, and our nation's power grid has been stretched thin because litigation and regulation has made it so difficult to build new sources of electricity.

    The American people can see this, so they're rejecting the Left's philosophy of less energy and inconvenience in favor of a pro-investment, pro-creativity, pro-production, and pro-conservation energy coalition.

    MoveOn.org Fails Einstein's Test of Insanity
    You'd think this much would be obvious to the Left, but the email they sent to their supporters and the advertisement they want to run is filled with the same discredited arguments about American energy production that the American people have rejected over this summer.

    It claims not only that more American energy, including opening up additional areas to oil and natural gas development, would have no immediate effect on gas prices, but that even in the long term, more American oil and gas on the market is only a "gimmick."

    Someone should remind MoveOn.org that Einstein's definition of insanity was "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."

    Not only does MoveOn.org still think that the Left's same, misguided energy scarcity policies are good for America, despite the obvious; they also think that the American people are going to continue to buy their arguments.

    That's just crazy, and you don't have to be a Nobel Prize winning physicist to know it.

    That's why we can be confident in our solutions and our answers to their faulty arguments. Check out our Facts Sheet at American Solutions for rebuttals to the anti-energy left's most common arguments.

    This summer, as you talk with your friends and neighbors about high gas prices, don't let the anti-energy left get away with using the same discredited arguments, and don't let them shirk the responsibility they bear for putting us in the energy crisis today.

    The Obama Opportunity: the President Should Call Congress Back Into Session
    Finally, in another sign that we are winning the argument over America's energy future, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has indicated he would support offshore drilling as part of a larger energy strategy.

    This is amazing progress considering it was just a few months ago that Senator Obama was not only opposed to more American oil production, he repeatedly voted to keep America ignorant of our own offshore energy resources.

    This is real progress. It's also a real opportunity.

    President Bush has the power to call the Congress back into session, but so far he's said he has no plans to do so. It's up to us to change his mind. There should be no confusion as to where Nancy Pelosi and her anti-energy allies on the left stand when it comes to a common sense energy strategy the American people want. You can call the White House at 202-456-1111 to encourage the President.

    In addition, we should call our Congressmen and ask them to call on the President to bring them back into session. And if your Congressman isn't one of those staying in Washington to protest Nancy Pelosi adjourning without passing an energy bill, make sure if you see him or her in your district to ask why they are on vacation instead of working to lower gas prices.

    Second, Senator McCain should challenge Senator Obama to work with him to create and pass an energy bill in the Senate before the election that includes opening up more areas to oil and natural gas development (including offshore and in the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR)) as part of a larger, comprehensive energy policy that also includes conservation efforts, nuclear power (Obama has indicated he would support building more plants under the right conditions), and incentives for new technologies.

    Then, the question for Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid will then be simple: with their party's nominee for President supporting more American oil production and the American people overwhelmingly supporting it as well, will they still oppose a common-sense energy policy that uses all of our American energy resources?

    Another Question for Nancy Pelosi, This Time on Immigration
    Finally, the news that the suspect of a brutal murder in San Francisco is a known illegal immigrant begs the question whether or not Nancy Pelosi will pass Einstein's insanity test with regard to her support of sanctuary city policies.

    Edwin Ramos had twice been convicted on felony charges as a juvenile, and his status as an illegal immigrant was known. Yet he was released from jail nearly three months before these recent slayings, protected from the country's immigration policies because of San Francisco's sanctuary policy.

    As I wrote last year when a known illegal immigrant shot four students, killing three, it is simply beyond belief that cities would knowingly shield felons and suspected felons from the country's immigration laws. Now, in San Francisco - Nancy Pelosi's district - the tragic results speak for themselves.

    This horrible story comes at the same time that the Center for Immigration Studies announced that increased enforcement on the US/Mexico border has decreased the number of illegal immigrants in the country by 1.3 million. Furthermore, their study concludes that the decline of the illegal population was at least seven times larger than the number of actual people removed by the government in the last ten months. This means that most of the decline is due to people here illegally leaving voluntarily as a result of the enforcement.

    The evidence is clear: enforcement works; sanctuary policies don't.

    Will Nancy Pelosi (not to mention the rest of the Left) finally back the enforcement of our country's laws or will they continue to cling to policies that don't work and expect a different result?

    Your friend,

    Newt Gingrich

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    August 5, 2008 - Vol. 3, No. 32

    The Left is on the Run By Newt Gingrich

    We have the left rattled and on the run. For proof, consider three developments from late last week.
    Doubtful this will equate to any GOP gains in 13 weeks.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Now, we can debate all we want about the proper role and extent of that government that we’ve established among ourselves, but our essential civic obligation to fund whatever we collectively deem a proper role for government is, or ought to be, unquestioned. It is, indeed, a form of patriotism. There’s a reason our system has such a low rate of tax delinquency compared to most of the rest of the world, and it’s not some inherent moral superiority. It’s a fundamental support and consent of the governed, which has been the unique hallmark of American society from its founding.
    what we "collectively" deem a proper role for government is, and always has been up for debate. which is good. the low rate of tax delinquency falls on the backs of the middle class. my pops worked for the irs and he would tell me that the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes. congress would always change the tax laws when the middle class would start to benefit from them. i guess at one point one could write off the interest one paid on credit cards, but when the middle class started obtaining credit cards that law flew off the books. the middle class (in my opinion) has a greater sense of dignity, morality and fidelity than the rich. maybe that's bad, maybe that's good. i don't know. the privatization of things is bad though. blackwater is making big bucks while our troops get shot up for chump change. and, blackwater isn't accountable to anyone. at least things in the public sector are accountable to the public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Doubtful this will equate to any GOP gains in 13 weeks.
    i agree. obama has this thing licked. i don't like either candidate, but the gop has to give up the ghost on this election. i sometimes think mccain was nominated because he doesn't have a chance to win, kinda like kerry in '04. oh well, nothing will change with obama in office. but i have to say he has billy clint beat on charisma. that cat can give a speech, even if he isn't saying much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    like i said before, there are people who are more informed about what is going on in their specific field than you. i wouldn't argue with you about fire science, at least keep an open mind when listening to someone else talk about the field they're in. please watch the links and let me know what you think.
    Actually, I'm a Registered Nurse and work as an executive in healthcare. So, I do understand patient rights and how consents are obtained.

    I don't know this organization, and while they have some benign information about their "goals", I believe they are misrepresenting the law to further their political agenda.

    Once again, read the law, it's all right there in black and white.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Doubtful this will equate to any GOP gains in 13 weeks.
    Actually, I've heard the latest polls are a statistical dead heat.

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...oll/index.html

    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/0...idential-race/
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 08-06-2008 at 01:24 AM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I love your cute little sayings... "rethuglicans"... classic.

    I have one, "Demoweasels" or how about "Wehateamerica-crats".

    By the way, I love how Obama has flip-flopped yet again and will now concede to off-shore drilling.

    The great centrist migration has begun! It's a great democratic tradition where the democractic nominee must appear more of a centrist to try to win the general election, and be dishonest about their true beliefs.

    So much fun!
    Wow! Way to completely avoid the issue and my question. Good job!

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Doubtful this will equate to any GOP gains in 13 weeks.

    It is a day to day struggle, right now Obama is falling and McCain is rising. Some polls actually (Rasmussen) have McCain ahead.

    Life is good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    i agree. obama has this thing licked.
    Ahhhhh, i just love the over confidence.

    You keep on thinking that way brother; i just hope the DNC is thinking the saaame way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Actually, I'm a Registered Nurse and work as an executive in healthcare. So, I do understand patient rights and how consents are obtained.

    I don't know this organization, and while they have some benign information about their "goals", I believe they are misrepresenting the law to further their political agenda.

    Once again, read the law, it's all right there in black and white.
    like i said, i have read the law. did you watch the videos? i'm not even a fan of the free market like this organization, but i think they have some legitimate beefs. what do you think is their political agenda?

    i don't trust acts, like the no child left behind act, which according to it's standards has deemed the best high school in my state unfit because the special ed students didn't score high enough on the standardized tests. see http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=767566.

    please watch the videos then form your opinion.
    Last edited by jsin925; 08-06-2008 at 01:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    Ahhhhh, i just love the over confidence.

    You keep on thinking that way brother; i just hope the DNC is thinking the saaame way.
    hey, i don't like obama, nor do i like mccain. i'm just calling it like i see it. between those two, i don't care who wins. nothing will change. the rich will get richer, and the poor will get poorer. both parties suck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    i'm not even a fan of the free market like this organization, but i think they have some legitimate beefs.


    “Capitalism is the greatest system ever created for alleviating general human misery, and yet it breeds ingratitude. People ask, ‘Why is there poverty in the world?’ It’s a silly question. Poverty is the default human condition... The interesting question isn’t ‘Why is there poverty?’ It’s ‘Why is there wealth?’ Or: ‘Why is there prosperity here but not there?’ At the end of the day, the first answer is capitalism, rightly understood. That is to say: free markets, private property, the spirit of entrepreneurialism and the conviction that the fruits of your labors are your own... In large measure our wealth isn’t the product of capitalism, it is capitalism. And yet we hate it. Leaving religion out of it, no idea has given more to humanity. The average working-class person today is richer, in real terms, than the average prince or potentate of 300 years ago. His food is better, his life longer, his health better, his menu of entertainments vastly more diverse, his toilette infinitely more civilized. And yet we constantly hear how cruel capitalism is while this collectivism or that is more loving because, unlike capitalism, collectivism is about the group, not the individual... Meanwhile, billions have ridden capitalism out of poverty. And yet the children of capitalism still whine.” —Jonah Goldberg

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    Exclamation obama has this thing licked - he’s got the presidency in the bag

    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    i agree. obama has this thing licked.


    “Last week, the Obama campaign sent out a letter on behalf of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee that made two points, one implicit and the other explicit. The implicit point is that Obama himself has no problem raising money for his own campaign, and he’s got the presidency in the bag. The explicit point is that since Obama’s already won this thing, he’s asking donors to focus on supporting Democratic candidates for Congress. Said the letter, ‘We must have a deadlock-proof Democratic majority.’ So the guy running on ‘unity’ and ‘working across the aisle’ has neither the desire nor the intention to foster ‘unity’ or ‘work across the aisle.’ He wants to pound the Republicans into dust so he doesn’t have to deal with them at all. He wants a Democratic majority so lopsided that he can plow his far-left agenda right through. And he wants so many Democrats crawling the hallways of Capitol Hill that he won’t have to work as hard at all that exhausting and pesky persuasion and compromise. Change you can believe in? Sure, as long as it’s only his version of change. Unity? Sure, as long as Republicans are willing to bend to him and his liberal agenda. Working across the aisle? Sure, as long as the Democrats are so dominant that the aisle barely exists. With Obama, watch what he does, not what he says, because the silver tongue promises what the politician has no intention of delivering.” —Monica Crowley

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Talk about clueless...

    OF COURSE we must drill more. How could finding more oil not help the cost of oil? It most certainly will, and yes, it will not help this year, but we must prepare for the future and explore now. How can anyone not see this?

    Should we explore other options, absolutely. However, while we wait for the car that runs on Obama's flip-flops and lies we need to find oil.

    What is your opposition to drilling more? Environmental? Anti-corporation? Black helicopters? Do you hate roughnecks??????

    WHAT could possibly be the reason?
    Riiiiight...just drill here, there and everywhere, and watch those prices at the pump fall. Why, we should just drill a hole every ten feet all over every wildlife refuge in the world. Screw the animals and the environment. Exxon still hasn't paid for the 1989 Valdez incident that is still poisoning the land and ocean...and that's not even close to the size of numerous other spills. I'll bet those compassionate oil companies will have the price of gasoline back down to 65 cents a gallon in no time! Hell, let's just pay for it ourselves...to hell with the "free market" you guys rant about all the time. Let's just give them billions of our taxpayer dollars so they can continue to get filthy rich raping the earth for a buck. No need for regulation...these guys always have the best interests of the little guy at heart! I mean, Exxon Mobile only raked in a mere 15 billion this quarter. Surely we can help out these struggling companies a little, right? I mean, why invest one thin dime in alternative energy sources; the oil will last forever!

    If you think the price-fixing son of a bitches that run the oil companies are going to lower their prices after we pay through the nose for them to drill all those holes you want, you're crazier than I thought you were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    “Capitalism is the greatest system ever created for alleviating general human misery, and yet it breeds ingratitude. People ask, ‘Why is there poverty in the world?’ It’s a silly question. Poverty is the default human condition... The interesting question isn’t ‘Why is there poverty?’ It’s ‘Why is there wealth?’ Or: ‘Why is there prosperity here but not there?’ At the end of the day, the first answer is capitalism, rightly understood. That is to say: free markets, private property, the spirit of entrepreneurialism and the conviction that the fruits of your labors are your own... In large measure our wealth isn’t the product of capitalism, it is capitalism. And yet we hate it. Leaving religion out of it, no idea has given more to humanity. The average working-class person today is richer, in real terms, than the average prince or potentate of 300 years ago. His food is better, his life longer, his health better, his menu of entertainments vastly more diverse, his toilette infinitely more civilized. And yet we constantly hear how cruel capitalism is while this collectivism or that is more loving because, unlike capitalism, collectivism is about the group, not the individual... Meanwhile, billions have ridden capitalism out of poverty. And yet the children of capitalism still whine.” —Jonah Goldberg
    i don't know about all of that, but china pulls a million people out of poverty everyday. have you ever lived in the inner city, aka the ghetto? i have for 32 years and my neighborhood was devastated in the 80s by reaganomics, and then again by w-2. capitalism was great when applied to the crack market. but the free market shipped factory jobs (which supported my neighborhood) out of the country to mexico, and then from mexico to china. there are some people who live in 3rd world conditions in the ghetto. i know, i've been to their homes, and i've stayed with a mayan family in chiapas, mexico and there isn't much difference. other than the family in mexico could actually raise chickens and ***** to eat, and didn't have roaches infesting their homes and sewer rats. but they did have satellite tv like most homes in the ghetto here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    “Last week, the Obama campaign sent out a letter on behalf of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee that made two points, one implicit and the other explicit. The implicit point is that Obama himself has no problem raising money for his own campaign, and he’s got the presidency in the bag. The explicit point is that since Obama’s already won this thing, he’s asking donors to focus on supporting Democratic candidates for Congress. Said the letter, ‘We must have a deadlock-proof Democratic majority.’ So the guy running on ‘unity’ and ‘working across the aisle’ has neither the desire nor the intention to foster ‘unity’ or ‘work across the aisle.’ He wants to pound the Republicans into dust so he doesn’t have to deal with them at all. He wants a Democratic majority so lopsided that he can plow his far-left agenda right through. And he wants so many Democrats crawling the hallways of Capitol Hill that he won’t have to work as hard at all that exhausting and pesky persuasion and compromise. Change you can believe in? Sure, as long as it’s only his version of change. Unity? Sure, as long as Republicans are willing to bend to him and his liberal agenda. Working across the aisle? Sure, as long as the Democrats are so dominant that the aisle barely exists. With Obama, watch what he does, not what he says, because the silver tongue promises what the politician has no intention of delivering.” —Monica Crowley
    duh! what do you expect. mccain would want it the same way in his favor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    i don't know about all of that, but china pulls a million people out of poverty everyday.
    So...we should change America to a more China like style of government? Is that what you are advocating?
    ...since you do not favor Capitalism?
    have you ever lived in the inner city, aka the ghetto? i have for 32 years and my neighborhood was devastated in the 80s by reaganomics, and then again by w-2.
    Yes i grew up in the inner city...though the 80's were when my parents had their biggest monetary gains. Capitalism offers that kind of financial opportunity...rather than working on a collective farm or as a doctor that makes the same wages as a peasant.

    capitalism was great when applied to the crack market. but the free market shipped factory jobs (which supported my neighborhood) out of the country to mexico, and then from mexico to china. there are some people who live in 3rd world conditions in the ghetto. i know, i've been to their homes, and i've stayed with a mayan family in chiapas, mexico and there isn't much difference.
    Yet it took you 32 years to get out of the ghetto? JS, crack kills...
    Work hard, save your money and move. It worked for the poor of Europe that left oppression and came to America and has worked millions of times in this country ever since.
    JS: No one owes you anything, not even a penny, it is not the government or someone else's responsibility to lift you out of poverty.
    other than the family in mexico could actually raise chickens and ***** to eat, and didn't have roaches infesting their homes and sewer rats. but they did have satellite tv like most homes in the ghetto here.
    If your spending your limited amount of money on satellite TV and applying capitalism to the selling of crack it is no wonder it took you 32 years to escape “the ghetto”.

    You are responsible for your self and i doubt few would go along with wish to turn this country into a more China-like country as you seem to be advocating.

    But I could be wrong: Feel free to start a poll....

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    duh! what do you expect. mccain would want it the same way in his favor.
    *grin* i am not a huge mccain fan but he has a history of working across the aisle. Often times at the Repubilcan party's expense.

    McCain has proven he has, would, and will work to bridge the aisle between the two partys....Obama has nothing but words.

    Words are one thing (not much) but a proven track record of working with both partys is much more telling of how the candidate(s) would act in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    So...we should change America to a more China like style of government? Is that what you are advocating?
    ...since you do not favor Capitalism?

    Yes i grew up in the inner city...though the 80's were when my parents had their biggest monetary gains. Capitalism offers that kind of financial opportunity...rather than working on a collective farm or as a doctor that makes the same wages as a peasant.
    you took everything i said the wrong way. i'm not promoting a china style economy, i was just pointing out that they fulfill economic goals without utilizing our system.

    i have never sold crack, nor will i ever. but, in the neighborhood i grew up in it was the most lucrative market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    Yet it took you 32 years to get out of the ghetto? JS, crack kills...
    Work hard, save your money and move. It worked for the poor of Europe that left oppression and came to America and has worked millions of times in this country ever since.
    JS: No one owes you anything, not even a penny, it is not the government or someone else's responsibility to lift you out of poverty.

    If your spending your limited amount of money on satellite TV and applying capitalism to the selling of crack it is no wonder it took you 32 years to escape “the ghetto”.

    You are responsible for your self and i doubt few would go along with wish to turn this country into a more China-like country as you seem to be advocating.

    But I could be wrong: Feel free to start a poll....
    easier said than done. i have a master's degree but i can't even get an interview (in the private sector) in the field i studied in even though i teach in that field at a local university part time. i never said that anyone owed me something, nor did i say that it was the responsibility of the government to pull me out of poverty. i'm still pretty poor, but now i'm in a great neighborhood where people aren't shooting outside my door.

    working hard and saving your money might have worked for the poor of Europe that left oppression and came to America, but what about the descendents of the enslaved of this country? there are two, maybe more, americas. just crack open the door and i can let myself in. i live in milwaukee, wisconsin, and my friends from my neighborhood with college degrees had to leave the state to find a job paying a livable wage. no one would give them a chance here. but i'm stubborn, and i believe that i can make it here, and i shouldn't have to move. plus, i can't afford to because i have kids.

    the point i was making with the satellite tv is that the poor in chiapas are privy to the same luxuries as the poor here. since you grew up in the inner city, even though your parents made money in the 80s when my friends' parents were being laid off, you should know that somethings are beyond ones control.

    my parents made about six figures when i was a teenager, but they never moved out of the neighborhood. they still live there today. not everyone is poor in the ghetto, but the living standard is something i didn't want my kids to go through. but, it gave me an understanding of life that people in the suburbs aren't privy to.

    in my observation capitalism profits the few, while the many pay for them. i don't really know but i don't think people in norway are complaining about their socialist government. i could be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    you took everything i said the wrong way.
    My apologies.

    i'm not promoting a china style economy, i was just pointing out that they fulfill economic goals without utilizing our system.
    What economic goals? Who's? While child labor sweat shops and working for pennies a day is better than no pay at all, i do not think that the chinese model of middle class prosperity is one that many Americans would be willing to change to.
    i have never sold crack, nor will i ever. but, in the neighborhood i grew up in it was the most lucrative market.
    JS if you use it as an example others will use it as an example as well. If you use it to make a point others will and should do the same. If those that are living in the ghetto are selling crack and/or paying for satellite TV then no one is going to give a rats azz that they are mired in the "ghetto" for 32 years. It does not take 32 years to save enough money to buy a bus ticket to get out of that environment. I am sorry but i do not see your point in bringing the TV or the crack examples up.

    easier said than done. i have a master's degree but i can't even get an interview (in the private sector) in the field i studied in even though i teach in that field at a local university part time.
    Sorry JS, your personal experience has been far different from mine. I do not use the degree that i hold to make the money i do today... but the degree i hold opened doors in another field that has been satisfactorily lucrative to keep me out of the ghetto. Sorry your luck or your resume' has not given you the gifts of life you wish they would but exactly why are you bringing these personal problems up? Sir if there are no jobs in your area, MOVE. The unemployment rate in Houston is at 3.5%. If you try and farm in the desert you will most likely fail. But if you move to a more fertile area your chances of being successful will most probably improve...hey, I’m just sayin'.
    i never said that anyone owed me something, nor did i say that it was the responsibility of the government to pull me out of poverty. i'm still pretty poor, but now i'm in a great neighborhood where people aren't shooting outside my door.
    Sir complaining that:
    1. the rich will get richer, and the poor will get poorer
    2. i'm not even a fan of the free market
    3. i have [lived in the ghetto] for 32 years and my neighborhood was devastated in the 80s by reaganomics, and then again by w-2.
    4. capitalism was great when applied to the crack market

    ...and so on and so forth, it leads people to think you have a beef with the capitalism- the free market - rich people, etc. etc. and that you equate those who make money in this system are taking advantage of all those in the "ghetto".
    I stand by my statements as i hope you stand by those you have made.
    working hard and saving your money might have worked for the poor of Europe that left oppression and came to America, but what about the descendents of the enslaved of this country?
    What is your point, the black men sitting to either side of me make the same money as i do right now...heck one of them has been doing it for nigh 30 years. What about the descendents of the enslaved? Do they deserve some kind of special help the immigrants from Asia, Mexico or the middle east do not? Those folks for the most part seem to be doing pretty good over all...surely the "descendents of the enslaved of this country" are just as good as these ...immigrants. Yes?
    I think you are selling a whole lot of people short...a whole lot of people.

    there are two, maybe more, americas.
    Sorry but there is one America. YOU might want to stick a "hyphen" in front of American but most of us do not. America is what you make of her...

    just crack open the door and i can let myself in.
    Odd others have just walked up and opened the door by themselves for the most part. Why should someone have to crack the door for you?
    We are all equal JS, no one deserves to get the door cracked open FOR them if they are not willing to stand up and open it themselves.
    i live in milwaukee, wisconsin, and my friends from my neighborhood with college degrees had to leave the state to find a job paying a livable wage.
    Yea, thats the way it goes sometimes. Sounds like you had some smart friends.
    no one would give them a chance here. but i'm stubborn, and i believe that i can make it here, and i shouldn't have to move. plus, i can't afford to because i have kids.
    Sounds like to me your pride is hurting you...and your kids. I wish you all the luck in the world and all the success you desire but to keep doing the same thing and that "thing" leads to failure, well that is not the wisest decision IMO. The quickest way out of a hole to stop diggin’.
    the point i was making with the satellite tv is that the poor in chiapas are privy to the same luxuries as the poor here. since you grew up in the inner city, even though your parents made money in the 80s when my friends' parents were being laid off, you should know that somethings are beyond ones control.
    Sir, yes...sometimes. But life is what you make of it and millions before you and it seems, even your friends understood that the economy changes, it always changes. An area that is lucrative now might not be so successful in the future and we have to change our actions to be successful accordingly. What might have been beyond your control THEN, as a child is one thing. But now you’re an adult, you more (most probably) than have the means to purchase a bus ticket and move to a more lucrative area if that was your goal. Hispanics from other countries move to this area all the time and I assure you, many of them are MUCH less wealthy than you most probably are. (Not to mention they oft times do not even speak English…)

    my parents made about six figures when i was a teenager, but they never moved out of the neighborhood.
    Mine made a lot less than half that… neither them even added together ever made even close to that kind of money.
    they still live there today. not everyone is poor in the ghetto, but the living standard is something i didn't want my kids to go through. but, it gave me an understanding of life that people in the suburbs aren't privy to.
    The living standard in the suburbs is absolutely great… (comparatively speaking) I never want to go back to living in the “city”. I will take raising my children “here” over “there” any day.

    in my observation capitalism profits the few, while the many pay for them.
    in my observation capitalism profits those who work for it, while those who will not work for it suffer in misery.
    i don't really know but i don't think people in norway are complaining about their socialist government. i could be wrong.
    So…move to Norway? Or your other example of poor to prosperity: China.
    What ever you decide please don’t try and change my country into Norway; just move there. No one is stopping you, but you…

    Thanks for the conversation, have a great night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    So...we should change America to a more China like style of government? Is that what you are advocating?
    ...since you do not favor Capitalism?

    Yes i grew up in the inner city...though the 80's were when my parents had their biggest monetary gains. Capitalism offers that kind of financial opportunity...rather than working on a collective farm or as a doctor that makes the same wages as a peasant.

    Yet it took you 32 years to get out of the ghetto? JS, crack kills...
    Work hard, save your money and move. It worked for the poor of Europe that left oppression and came to America and has worked millions of times in this country ever since.
    JS: No one owes you anything, not even a penny, it is not the government or someone else's responsibility to lift you out of poverty.


    If your spending your limited amount of money on satellite TV and applying capitalism to the selling of crack it is no wonder it took you 32 years to escape “the ghetto”.

    You are responsible for your self and i doubt few would go along with wish to turn this country into a more China-like country as you seem to be advocating.

    But I could be wrong: Feel free to start a poll....
    He's one of those American poor. You know, with a car, air conditioning and three TV's. Yet he has the gonads to compare himself to the poor in China and other third world nations? It didn't take him 32 years to get out of the inner city. It took him 32 years to WANT to get out of the inner city.
    Last edited by GeorgeWendtCFI; 08-06-2008 at 07:38 AM.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    working hard and saving your money might have worked for the poor of Europe that left oppression and came to America, but what about the descendents of the enslaved of this country? there are two, maybe more, americas. just crack open the door and i can let myself in. i live in milwaukee, wisconsin, and my friends from my neighborhood with college degrees had to leave the state to find a job paying a livable wage. no one would give them a chance here. but i'm stubborn, and i believe that i can make it here, and i shouldn't have to move. plus, i can't afford to because i have kids.
    Your "plight" sounds like alot of the people on here. People who wanted to be fire fighters and could not get a job where they lived. So they packed up and moved to where the jobs were. See a theme here?

    Two Americas? Nonsense. From your post, I am getting that you are African-American. If I am wrong, I apologize. But if I am right, you really need to read the words you have been writing.

    The "two Americas" apparently did not hurt your parents. They were able to make six figures. Yet, they did not want to abandon their neighborhood. They are exercizing their freedom to live where they want to live. They are not stuck.

    The "two Americas" do not seem to have hurt you either. You have the most important key to success a person can have-education. You had the opportunity to get that education w/o regard to your race, color, etc. You had the freedom to live where you want, too.

    Seems to me that, whatever your race, you are one of the Reparations crowd. Let me tell you, I didn't own slaves. None of my relatives ever owned slaves. No one I know owned slaves. I do not owe anyone anything. The insinuation that African Americans cannot get ahead on their own is a blatant insult to African Americans. Especially the huge number of Amercian Americans who have worked hard and become successful, just like I did.

    It's all about education and hard work.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Your "plight" sounds like alot of the people on here. People who wanted to be fire fighters and could not get a job where they lived. So they packed up and moved to where the jobs were. See a theme here?

    Two Americas? Nonsense. From your post, I am getting that you are African-American. If I am wrong, I apologize. But if I am right, you really need to read the words you have been writing.

    The "two Americas" apparently did not hurt your parents. They were able to make six figures. Yet, they did not want to abandon their neighborhood. They are exercizing their freedom to live where they want to live. They are not stuck.

    The "two Americas" do not seem to have hurt you either. You have the most important key to success a person can have-education. You had the opportunity to get that education w/o regard to your race, color, etc. You had the freedom to live where you want, too.

    Seems to me that, whatever your race, you are one of the Reparations crowd. Let me tell you, I didn't own slaves. None of my relatives ever owned slaves. No one I know owned slaves. I do not owe anyone anything. The insinuation that African Americans cannot get ahead on their own is a blatant insult to African Americans. Especially the huge number of Amercian Americans who have worked hard and become successful, just like I did.

    It's all about education and hard work.

    Bing-freaking-o!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    In my mere 34 years of life, I've ridden the economic rollercoaster more than many people twice my age.

    I was raised in a typical middle class life. My father was a cop, my mom a book keeper. I didn't have everything I wanted, but I had enough. My needs were always met, and some of my wants, so I really have no room to complain about my childhood.

    As an adult however, I became the type of person people don't speak well of. I was never a criminal, but I didn't want to work. My wife enabled me to do that, but it was still my fault. We were dirt poor. Family members brought us groceries so we wouldn't starve. I can never repay those family members, because it was my fault we were there.

    When my son was born however, I woke up. I stepped up and realized it was past time to be a man and take care of business. I got my butt to work. It wasn't much, just temp jobs mostly, but it paid the bills. I kept working hard, and moving forward. While I had spans where there was no income, it wasn't for lack of trying. I'll admit it too, it was frustrating during those times.

    That hard work paid off. Today, I make more than both of my parents. I'm not particularly educated either. I've got some college, but no degree. I did this on pure hard work and doing a good job. Nothing more, nothing less.

    To say that people can't get ahead in a free market economy is pure BS. No, I'm not a millioniare, but that was never my goal. My goal is to support my family, pay my bills, and be able to have a little fun now and then. If my slacker butt was able to get into a better life, then anyone can.

    It has nothing to do with race, religion, gender, blood type, or anything else. It has to do with pure force of will. If you want it badly enough, you will achieve it. Period.

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