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  1. #151
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    [QUOTE=jsin925;975454]my pops worked for the irs and he would tell me that the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes.

    Really? I guess that the top 1% of taxpayers paying half of all personal income taxes collected is not enough? How much (dare I ask) is? Please enlighten me.

    http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxst...=96981,00.html

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

    Considering that I make what equates to being the top 10% on my own (not including my wife's income) I would love for you, scfire, and Noz to tell me how much more I should fork out to the government?

    As it has been said by many before, we do not have a taxation problem, we have a spending problem in this nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    congress would always change the tax laws when the middle class would start to benefit from them. i guess at one point one could write off the interest one paid on credit cards, but when the middle class started obtaining credit cards that law flew off the books.
    Actually, no need to declare your credit card interest. It is no different than any other loan - since that is exactly what a credit card is - that you are given. Pay off your debts and save a ton more money instead of carrying a debt burden, harming yourself financially, and have more money to spend.

    And there is more to it than that. I claim what is allowed by law, and since I paid just shy of $10,000 in student loan interest in 2007, I got a whopping deal on my taxes let me tell you. I got a whopping $2,500 in credit for my $10,000 out of pocket in interest alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    the middle class (in my opinion) has a greater sense of dignity, morality and fidelity than the rich.
    Careful now, most of the members of Congress (now a majority Democrat) are multimillionaires.......Don't insult your Liberal friends. Because as liberals have made known - Democrats and Liberals have never, do no, and will never do any wrong.

    And what exactly qualifies one as rich? How much do I have to make before I am considered "rich?" I do want to know, because I have never - and I do mean NEVER - heard any politician or person on the left (who all hate anyone with any financial resources) tell me who is really considered "rich."

    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    the privatization of things is bad though.
    So the government should run hospitals? The government should run drug stores? Restaurants? Stores? Car manufacturers? Since privatization is bad, please explain to me how our nation operates?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    at least things in the public sector are accountable to the public.
    Excuse me while I bust a gut.
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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Wow! Way to completely avoid the issue and my question. Good job!
    He has probably learned from you. Since you do not answer questions proposed to you.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    hey, i don't like obama, nor do i like mccain. i'm just calling it like i see it. between those two, i don't care who wins. nothing will change. the rich will get richer, and the poor will get poorer. both parties suck.
    You are right, both parties stink.

    As for the rich getting richer, it is (partially) because they want to.

    I grew up poor. Now I am considered "rich" apparently according to the IRS. Please go through my finances and tell me where?

    The poor can get "rich" through the same methods others have. Hard work, education, drive, and patience. It is possible. Millions have done it in this nation since its founding.

    But to use scfire's point, please tell me where there is a higher standard of living?
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    In my mere 34 years of life, I've ridden the economic rollercoaster more than many people twice my age.

    I was raised in a typical middle class life. My father was a cop, my mom a book keeper. I didn't have everything I wanted, but I had enough. My needs were always met, and some of my wants, so I really have no room to complain about my childhood.

    As an adult however, I became the type of person people don't speak well of. I was never a criminal, but I didn't want to work. My wife enabled me to do that, but it was still my fault. We were dirt poor. Family members brought us groceries so we wouldn't starve. I can never repay those family members, because it was my fault we were there.

    When my son was born however, I woke up. I stepped up and realized it was past time to be a man and take care of business. I got my butt to work. It wasn't much, just temp jobs mostly, but it paid the bills. I kept working hard, and moving forward. While I had spans where there was no income, it wasn't for lack of trying. I'll admit it too, it was frustrating during those times.

    That hard work paid off. Today, I make more than both of my parents. I'm not particularly educated either. I've got some college, but no degree. I did this on pure hard work and doing a good job. Nothing more, nothing less.

    To say that people can't get ahead in a free market economy is pure BS. No, I'm not a millioniare, but that was never my goal. My goal is to support my family, pay my bills, and be able to have a little fun now and then. If my slacker butt was able to get into a better life, then anyone can.

    It has nothing to do with race, religion, gender, blood type, or anything else. It has to do with pure force of will. If you want it badly enough, you will achieve it. Period.
    Careful Tomcat - there are those on these boards and in politics who do not want to hear that you can/did something to overcome adversity without the government helping.

    It is not good for their agenda.

    I posted my experiences before - somewhat similar - and was belittled by tow people on here for being able to rise from being poor to being considered "rich" by the IRS.

    How dare people better themselves. HOW DARE THEY!
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Careful Tomcat - there are those on these boards and in politics who do not want to hear that you can/did something to overcome adversity without the government helping.

    It is not good for their agenda.

    I posted my experiences before - somewhat similar - and was belittled by tow people on here for being able to rise from being poor to being considered "rich" by the IRS.

    How dare people better themselves. HOW DARE THEY!
    Yeah, I know people like that as well.

    I really couldn't give less of a ***** what folks like that tend to think

    I did it, I'm proud of it, and I refuse to accept that others can't do as well or better than I did. Frankly, they could probably do better than me if they want it. It isn't that hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    If you think the price-fixing son of a bitches that run the oil companies are going to lower their prices after we pay through the nose for them to drill all those holes you want, you're crazier than I thought you were.
    Its not just the Oil Companies. OPEC will most assuredly raise their price (or lower their output) to account for any new supply and the price at the pump will stay relatively the same.

    Also note that here pump prices have fallen 30-40 cents/gallon in the last week or so based purely on the debate on drilling and possible weather in the Gulf. If that's not a sign that speculation is a large part of the price, I don't know what is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    Its not just the Oil Companies. OPEC will most assuredly raise their price (or lower their output) to account for any new supply and the price at the pump will stay relatively the same.

    Also note that here pump prices have fallen 30-40 cents/gallon in the last week or so based purely on the debate on drilling and possible weather in the Gulf. If that's not a sign that speculation is a large part of the price, I don't know what is.
    The fall in oil prices can be directly attributed to the date when Pres. Bush announced he was lifting the ban on off shore drilling. Prices started their freefall the next day. It was not a coincidence.

    The best way for us to deal with the OPEC issue is to utilize the resources we are sitting on and then have a National Day of Celebration. We can call it the "Kiss My *** OPEC Day".
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    “Capitalism is the greatest system ever created for alleviating general human misery, and yet it breeds ingratitude. People ask, ‘Why is there poverty in the world?’ It’s a silly question. Poverty is the default human condition... The interesting question isn’t ‘Why is there poverty?’ It’s ‘Why is there wealth?’ Or: ‘Why is there prosperity here but not there?’ At the end of the day, the first answer is capitalism, rightly understood. That is to say: free markets, private property, the spirit of entrepreneurialism and the conviction that the fruits of your labors are your own... In large measure our wealth isn’t the product of capitalism, it is capitalism. And yet we hate it. Leaving religion out of it, no idea has given more to humanity. The average working-class person today is richer, in real terms, than the average prince or potentate of 300 years ago. His food is better, his life longer, his health better, his menu of entertainments vastly more diverse, his toilette infinitely more civilized. And yet we constantly hear how cruel capitalism is while this collectivism or that is more loving because, unlike capitalism, collectivism is about the group, not the individual... Meanwhile, billions have ridden capitalism out of poverty. And yet the children of capitalism still whine.” —Jonah Goldberg
    And a lot of that is due via things like the Sherman Anti Trust Act, Pure Food and Drug Act, and Fail Labor Standards Act. You know.....government. The business community fought tough and nail against the abolition of child labor and has continually fought against issues regarding workplace safety. Both of those are in place and the world hasn't come to an end.

    Capitalism is a great engine of progress and its own worst enemy. It’s so good at pulling money out of the goose that lays the golden egg that it’ll eventually destroy it. The current financial mess is a good example. Oil companies making these levels of profit while the rest of the economy founders ( and indeed where those profits and the prices that create them are a major contributor to the foundering), is not just supply and demand doing its Godlike Adam Smith work. It’s exploitation of the highest order. The good of the larger society demands that the problem be at least examined, if not corrective action of some sort (and note that I don’t claim to be bright enough to know what that action might be). I just know that when I’m being screwed over,whether by governmental overreaching or by corporate greed, I have options in a free society to do something other than accept my fate.
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-06-2008 at 11:20 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    The best way for us to deal with the OPEC issue is to utilize the resources we are sitting on and then have a National Day of Celebration. We can call it the "Kiss My *** OPEC Day".
    I would go one step further and start developing renewal energy sources. One of the few things I did like about the Carter Administration was his vision of putting that effort in place. Most likely he was motivated by having endured two manufactured oil shortages during the 70's.

    It was abandoned when Reagan took office (with a Dem congress) and I believe we are dealing with the ramifications of that decision now.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I would go one step further and start developing renewal energy sources. One of the few things I did like about the Carter Administration was his vision of putting that effort in place. Most likely he was motivated by having endured two manufactured oil shortages during the 70's.

    It was abandoned when Reagan took office (with a Dem congress) and I believe we are dealing with the ramifications of that decision now.
    I'm not sure exactly what you mean by renewable energy sources. But I would 100% agree that we should be looking towards an expansion of wind power (Oh wait, the Dems don't like that), nuclear power (Oh wait, the Dems don't like that), clean coal power (Oh wait, the Dems don't like that), solar power (I think they might be OK with that) and natural gas, especially in vehicles (Oh wait, the Dems don't like that).

    Bio fuels and ethanol are not going to cut it. People are really not going to stand much longer for a fuel source that is interrupting the food supply and raising havoc with prices.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    please watch the videos then form your opinion.
    This makes no sense. So, if I take a video of me giving you my opinion, would you consider that gospel?

    Because you sure are buying into this horsehockey.

    Read the law.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I'm not sure exactly what you mean by renewable energy sources. But I would 100% agree that we should be looking towards an expansion of wind power (Oh wait, the Dems don't like that), nuclear power (Oh wait, the Dems don't like that), clean coal power (Oh wait, the Dems don't like that), solar power (I think they might be OK with that) and natural gas, especially in vehicles (Oh wait, the Dems don't like that).

    Bio fuels and ethanol are not going to cut it. People are really not going to stand much longer for a fuel source that is interrupting the food supply and raising havoc with prices.
    When they realize how much "open space" is required for any reasonable amount of solar electric generation with today's technology, they will be opposed to that too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Riiiiight...just drill here, there and everywhere, and watch those prices at the pump fall. Why, we should just drill a hole every ten feet all over every wildlife refuge in the world. Screw the animals and the environment. Exxon still hasn't paid for the 1989 Valdez incident that is still poisoning the land and ocean...and that's not even close to the size of numerous other spills. I'll bet those compassionate oil companies will have the price of gasoline back down to 65 cents a gallon in no time! Hell, let's just pay for it ourselves...to hell with the "free market" you guys rant about all the time. Let's just give them billions of our taxpayer dollars so they can continue to get filthy rich raping the earth for a buck. No need for regulation...these guys always have the best interests of the little guy at heart! I mean, Exxon Mobile only raked in a mere 15 billion this quarter. Surely we can help out these struggling companies a little, right? I mean, why invest one thin dime in alternative energy sources; the oil will last forever!

    If you think the price-fixing son of a bitches that run the oil companies are going to lower their prices after we pay through the nose for them to drill all those holes you want, you're crazier than I thought you were.

    Wow, did they shortchange you at the gas station this morning or what?

    I never said to not explore alternative means, explore all you want! However, RIGHT NOW, we need oil and we need gasoline. There is no expectation that this will change anytime soon.

    In addition, the only people you and your libbie tree-hugging friends are hurting are the working class of this country who will have to make some TOUGH decisions this winter. This is why the democrats (except the out of touch Pelosi) are now backpedaling furiously on the off-shore drilling issue.

    How would you rein in these heartless robber baron oil companies?

    I do like the idea of controlling the speculation on oil. Change it to match speculation of other commodities where the speculators must have the capital up front to participate. I read an article that said just doing this would drop the price per gallon by half.
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 08-06-2008 at 01:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    He has probably learned from you. Since you do not answer questions proposed to you.
    Correct, i've adopted the hit and run posting technique.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I never said to not explore alternative means, explore all you want! However, RIGHT NOW, we need oil and we need gasoline. There is no expectation that this will change anytime soon.
    I gotta agree with you here Chief. Viable alternative fuel sources are, at least, a decade off from what I recall. While I'd love to go straight to alternative fuel sources right now, they just aren't ready for prime time. In the mean time, we need more oil now!

    FWIW, I don't like the idea of off shore drilling or drilling in wildlife preserves, but we need the fuel now. Just kick alternative fuel developement into overdrive and make it so we can cap the wells for the next thousand years early and move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    Its not just the Oil Companies. OPEC will most assuredly raise their price (or lower their output) to account for any new supply and the price at the pump will stay relatively the same.

    Also note that here pump prices have fallen 30-40 cents/gallon in the last week or so based purely on the debate on drilling and possible weather in the Gulf. If that's not a sign that speculation is a large part of the price, I don't know what is.
    Not to nit pick, but opec doesn't set prices, they set production.

    The market sets the price and runaway speculation has bastardized the supply and demand controls that exist naturally in a market like this.

    In addition, the dramatic increase in demand by the India and Chinese markets have also hurt prices.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    The fall in oil prices can be directly attributed to the date when Pres. Bush announced he was lifting the ban on off shore drilling. Prices started their freefall the next day. It was not a coincidence.
    Exactly. It wasn't caused by any actual increase in Supply. It was based purely off of the speculation that they might talk about the possibility of going off to look for new supplies. This leads me to believe that Speculation has a lot more to do with the short-term rise and fall of oil prices then actually starting to look for more oil would.

    I also don't think the origin and amount of raw crude oil has everything to do with the high pump prices we're currently seeing. If it were we wouldn't be seeing the oil companies (Who are just middle men) making the profits they are. I know its a simplification, but they buy crude from OPEC, refine it, distribute it, and sell it at the pumps. If the price per barrel goes up, the price at the pump goes up but all profits get passed back to OPEC, the oil company doesn't keep it. The Oil companies are making huge profits as well so they can't put all the blame on price for crude. The fact is they also have a monopoly on refinement and distribution. They're able to manipulate Supply and Demand the same way OPEC does by limiting refinement and watch the price at the pumps skyrocket.

    Then they claim its because of the supply of Crude and take advantage of the fearmongering to get the US public to pay for them to go drill in ANWR and off the coast. This frees them from cost fluctuation by OPEC but protects their local income stream.

    I'm no fan of the R's or D's, and both sides are being played..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    I gotta agree with you here Chief. Viable alternative fuel sources are, at least, a decade off from what I recall. While I'd love to go straight to alternative fuel sources right now, they just aren't ready for prime time. In the mean time, we need more oil now!

    FWIW, I don't like the idea of off shore drilling or drilling in wildlife preserves, but we need the fuel now. Just kick alternative fuel developement into overdrive and make it so we can cap the wells for the next thousand years early and move on.
    Not to nit pick but we need more gasoline, not crude oil. There are two "bad guys" here. OPEC is manipulating crude prices by limiting production. The oil companies are doing the exact same thing locally. They're manipulating gasoline (or refined oil) prices by controlling refinement.

    Increasing the amount of crude oil available helps take Opec out of the equation but we'd still have the local oil companies milking the situation for everything its worth. The situation won't change until there is competition at that level as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    What economic goals? Who's? While child labor sweat shops and working for pennies a day is better than no pay at all, i do not think that the chinese model of middle class prosperity is one that many Americans would be willing to change to..
    i never suggested changing to it, you are putting words in my mouth. they are going through their own industrial age now, one we went through in the late 19th/early 20 century. it works for them, that was my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    JS if you use it as an example others will use it as an example as well. If you use it to make a point others will and should do the same. If those that are living in the ghetto are selling crack and/or paying for satellite TV then no one is going to give a rats azz that they are mired in the "ghetto" for 32 years. It does not take 32 years to save enough money to buy a bus ticket to get out of that environment. I am sorry but i do not see your point in bringing the TV or the crack examples up..
    i said is was the most lucrative market in my neighborhood. when the factory jobs left, and reagan cut the funding for summer jobs for teens, and the middle class in my neighborhood dwindled, crack was the most lucrative market. i never said that i agree with the selling of drugs, because i don't. i was explaining the downfall of my neighborhood. and i never said it took me 32 years to get out of the ghetto, i said i lived there for 32 years. i happened to like my neighborhood (until it got too bad for me and my family), it used to be the most integrated area of my city and there are a lot of good people there. the majority don't sell crack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    Sorry JS, your personal experience has been far different from mine. I do not use the degree that i hold to make the money i do today... but the degree i hold opened doors in another field that has been satisfactorily lucrative to keep me out of the ghetto. Sorry your luck or your resume' has not given you the gifts of life you wish they would but exactly why are you bringing these personal problems up? Sir if there are no jobs in your area, MOVE. The unemployment rate in Houston is at 3.5%. If you try and farm in the desert you will most likely fail. But if you move to a more fertile area your chances of being successful will most probably improve...hey, I’m just sayin'
    there are jobs here. i said i couldn't get an interview in the field i went to school for even though i teach that field at a local university here part time. i figure if i'm good enough to teach people to do the job, i should be good enough to at least get an interview. i just can't pick up and leave, i have kids, i like the schools they go to, and i like my city (i have a love/hate relationship with it).

    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    Sir complaining that:
    1. the rich will get richer, and the poor will get poorer
    2. i'm not even a fan of the free market
    3. i have [lived in the ghetto] for 32 years and my neighborhood was devastated in the 80s by reaganomics, and then again by w-2.
    4. capitalism was great when applied to the crack market

    ...and so on and so forth, it leads people to think you have a beef with the capitalism- the free market - rich people, etc. etc. and that you equate those who make money in this system are taking advantage of all those in the "ghetto".
    I stand by my statements as i hope you stand by those you have made.
    capitalism is an expolitive system made to capitalize on other people. do i have a beef with it? not really, it is what it is. it is the system i was born into. i don't think it is the best system in the world, but nothing is perfect. i'm not a fan of the free market. there needs to be a fair market. i never said that people making money are taking advantage of those in the ghetto. once again you are putting words in my mouth. the crack market is a perfect example of capitalism. supply and demand. getting the most money for your product, and taking down your competitor. capitalizing on a given situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    What is your point, the black men sitting to either side of me make the same money as i do right now...heck one of them has been doing it for nigh 30 years. What about the descendents of the enslaved? Do they deserve some kind of special help the immigrants from Asia, Mexico or the middle east do not? Those folks for the most part seem to be doing pretty good over all...surely the "descendents of the enslaved of this country" are just as good as these ...immigrants. Yes?
    I think you are selling a whole lot of people short...a whole lot of people.
    you brought up poor europeans, most who came here in the late 19th and early 20th century. who had it easier, them or the descendents of those enslaved. were poor europeans still fighting for civil rights in the 60s. my point was that some have had an easier time to accumulate wealth that they could pass down to their children than others. if you didn't bring up poor europeans i wouldn't have brought up descendents of the enslaved. black and white people both live in a different world now than our decsendents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    Sorry but there is one America. YOU might want to stick a "hyphen" in front of American but most of us do not. America is what you make of her...
    i agree and disagree. i don't like term african-american, mexican-american, asian-american, so on and so forth. if one was born here and grew up here, then one is an american. those terms are just political correctness that i can do without. america is not a homogenous place with one culture (unless capitalism and consumerism is considered culture). but for the most part, you are right there is only one america, we all just experience it differently.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    Odd others have just walked up and opened the door by themselves for the most part. Why should someone have to crack the door for you?
    We are all equal JS, no one deserves to get the door cracked open FOR them if they are not willing to stand up and open it themselves.
    true some have been able to open the door for themselves, and some had to have leigslation passed to get the door cracked open for them. i agree we are all equal, but if you look at society there are lots of inequalities still. tell me how i can give myself a job interview for a job that i know i am qualified, most times overqualified for? i believe i have done a lot of turning of the knob but the door is locked. just my experience, not saying that it won't change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    Yea, thats the way it goes sometimes. Sounds like you had some smart friends.

    Sounds like to me your pride is hurting you...and your kids. I wish you all the luck in the world and all the success you desire but to keep doing the same thing and that "thing" leads to failure, well that is not the wisest decision IMO. The quickest way out of a hole to stop diggin’.

    Sir, yes...sometimes. But life is what you make of it and millions before you and it seems, even your friends understood that the economy changes, it always changes. An area that is lucrative now might not be so successful in the future and we have to change our actions to be successful accordingly. What might have been beyond your control THEN, as a child is one thing. But now you’re an adult, you more (most probably) than have the means to purchase a bus ticket and move to a more lucrative area if that was your goal. Hispanics from other countries move to this area all the time and I assure you, many of them are MUCH less wealthy than you most probably are. (Not to mention they oft times do not even speak English…)
    my friends don't have children, i do. my base of support (family and friends) is here. i was in college when i had my kids, and i believed that getting a degree would offer me more opportunity to provide for my children. picking up and moving wasn't an option. have you seen the price for daycare? my parents are retired so they could watch my kids for free. wouldn't have had that luxury if i left. after getting my bachelors i worked a few dead-end jobs then i was offered a fellowship to go to graduate school here, where i would've had to paid tuition to a school in another state. i don't know what hole i was digging myself in by getting an education which i was told growing up is the way to better one's options.

    the hispanics move to this country because there is no opportunity in their country. they want to be able to send their children to school so they can get an education and live better than them. i actually tried one summer to get a job landscaping and no one would hire me. i'm not going to move my family around. like i said i like the schools my kids go to and the cost of living is cheaper here than most places. my wife is advancing at her job and it wouldn't be fair to her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    Mine made a lot less than half that… neither them even added together ever made even close to that kind of money.

    The living standard in the suburbs is absolutely great… (comparatively speaking) I never want to go back to living in the “city”. I will take raising my children “here” over “there” any day.
    i can't stand the burbs. i'm a city boy. to each his/her own. i like my living standard in the part of the city i'm in now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    in my observation capitalism profits those who work for it, while those who will not work for it suffer in misery.
    i'm not against working, i'm all for it. i've been trying to find a job that pays me a livable for 3 years now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    So…move to Norway? Or your other example of poor to prosperity: China.
    What ever you decide please don’t try and change my country into Norway; just move there. No one is stopping you, but you…

    Thanks for the conversation, have a great night.
    not trying to change the country into norway, you missed my point.
    great time talking to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    i don't think it is the best system in the world, but nothing is perfect. i'm not a fan of the free market. there needs to be a fair market.
    Wait wait wait...

    What system in this world is better?

    Have you ever taken an economics class?
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    Not to nit pick but we need more gasoline, not crude oil. There are two "bad guys" here. OPEC is manipulating crude prices by limiting production. The oil companies are doing the exact same thing locally. They're manipulating gasoline (or refined oil) prices by controlling refinement.

    Increasing the amount of crude oil available helps take Opec out of the equation but we'd still have the local oil companies milking the situation for everything its worth. The situation won't change until there is competition at that level as well.
    True, but the only thing the government can really do is free up areas for exploration. The oil companies can't really be forced to produce more gasoline.

    Unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    Not to nit pick but we need more gasoline, not crude oil. There are two "bad guys" here. OPEC is manipulating crude prices by limiting production. The oil companies are doing the exact same thing locally. They're manipulating gasoline (or refined oil) prices by controlling refinement.

    Increasing the amount of crude oil available helps take Opec out of the equation but we'd still have the local oil companies milking the situation for everything its worth. The situation won't change until there is competition at that level as well.
    You honestly don't know a whole lot about this, do you?

    OPEC is running oil production at close to capacity. Why wouldn't they? With prices at this level. In fact, OPEC nations are projecting that their ability to oncrease production will actually raise by 5 million barrels per day by 2010.

    OPEC also only has authority over about 30% of the world's crude oil. While they are certainly a formidable obstacle in lowering prices, they are not alone.

    The per barrel price that is most often quoted is the price in the futures market. This is where the speculators have influence. However, when we are talking about the price we are paying today, we are looking at a price that is solely based on supply and demand. Demand has skyrocketed as the economies of India and China have evolved.

    Oil refining capacity is certainly a factor in the price of gasoline. But it is hardly the oil companies that are holding back on that aspect. The state and federal governments have placed so many financial and environmental obstacles in the way, it is simply not economically feasible to build refineries. Hell, it doesn't even pay for them to refurbish the ones they have.

    The bottom line is, again, supply and demand. Increasing the world oil supply by several hundred thousand barrels per day would allow us to reduce our need for buying oil on the world market. That would cause prices to nosedive. At the same time, working to increase our use of nuclear power, new clean coal technology, natural gas (for vehicles), improving battery technology and other alternative fuels would dramatically decrease demand for oil. The result would be another nosedive in gasoline prices. We might even get back to the days when they gave out glasses and green stamps with your gasoline purchase just to get you to buy gasoline. (God, I sound like Paris Hilton).
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    i was in college when i had my kids, and i believed that getting a degree would offer me more opportunity to provide for my children. picking up and moving wasn't an option. have you seen the price for daycare? my parents are retired so they could watch my kids for free. wouldn't have had that luxury if i left. after getting my bachelors i worked a few dead-end jobs then i was offered a fellowship to go to graduate school here, where i would've had to paid tuition to a school in another state. i don't know what hole i was digging myself in by getting an education which i was told growing up is the way to better one's options
    Poor you. What is your Masters in?
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    capitalism is an expolitive system made to capitalize on other people.
    All economic systems are exploitive in someone's opinion. Socialism, communism, and even Fascism all capitalize on the most capable of society and use their labor to suppor the least capable. Instead of "exploiting" the workers who sell their labor, these other systems exploit those who would thrive in a free market economy. The exploit capable managers, inventors, and innovaters by making sure they aren't rewarded for their efforts.

    People generally want to be rewarded for good work. After all, you want a good job to "reward" you for getting your education, correct?

    do i have a beef with it? not really, it is what it is. it is the system i was born into. i don't think it is the best system in the world, but nothing is perfect. i'm not a fan of the free market. there needs to be a fair market.
    You don't have a problem with capitalism, but you have a problem with the free market economy? Sorry...I just don't see how both statements can be true. Perhaps I'm not understanding you?

    Just for the record though, you lament not being able to get a job in your chosen field where you live, and yet you refuse to move. Sorry bud, but that's on you. Yes, I understand your reasons. I sympathize with them. I'm sort of stuck in my home town at the moment because I'm an only child and my mother will probably need some kind of assistance in the next few years. I can't do that living 200+ miles away after all. But to use yourself as an example on this is hardly viable. You have made a choice. That choice has impacted your potential for finding a job. Accept it and move on.

    Example: There is only one airplane manufacturer in my home town (if they're still even here). They are a small company. I would be stupid to get a degree in aerospace engineering and then lament my inability to get a job in my chosen field when I refuse to move to a place where there are more jobs.

    I'm not trying to be an ***** here, but you had a choice and you made it. It looks like you're upset you can't have your cake and eat it too.

    Of course, not knowing what your degree is in, or where you live, definitely as an effect on my opinions. Knowing that information could change things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    OPEC also only has authority over about 30% of the world's crude oil. While they are certainly a formidable obstacle in lowering prices, they are not alone.
    Certainly I simplified when I said OPEC, singularly, was responsible. I don't think that negates my arguments. Supply at the pump is determined by both Crude production capability and Refinement capability. New drilling will only increase crude and will do next to nothing if the bottleneck/monopoly is with refinement.


    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    The bottom line is, again, supply and demand. Increasing the world oil supply by several hundred thousand barrels per day would allow us to reduce our need for buying oil on the world market. That would cause prices to nosedive.
    If the price at the pump is primarily driven by the supply of Crude, why are the oil companies making record profits?
    So you call this your free country
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