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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    “Capitalism is the greatest system ever created for alleviating general human misery, and yet it breeds ingratitude. People ask, ‘Why is there poverty in the world?’ It’s a silly question. Poverty is the default human condition... The interesting question isn’t ‘Why is there poverty?’ It’s ‘Why is there wealth?’ Or: ‘Why is there prosperity here but not there?’ At the end of the day, the first answer is capitalism, rightly understood. That is to say: free markets, private property, the spirit of entrepreneurialism and the conviction that the fruits of your labors are your own... In large measure our wealth isn’t the product of capitalism, it is capitalism. And yet we hate it. Leaving religion out of it, no idea has given more to humanity. The average working-class person today is richer, in real terms, than the average prince or potentate of 300 years ago. His food is better, his life longer, his health better, his menu of entertainments vastly more diverse, his toilette infinitely more civilized. And yet we constantly hear how cruel capitalism is while this collectivism or that is more loving because, unlike capitalism, collectivism is about the group, not the individual... Meanwhile, billions have ridden capitalism out of poverty. And yet the children of capitalism still whine.” —Jonah Goldberg
    i don't know about all of that, but china pulls a million people out of poverty everyday. have you ever lived in the inner city, aka the ghetto? i have for 32 years and my neighborhood was devastated in the 80s by reaganomics, and then again by w-2. capitalism was great when applied to the crack market. but the free market shipped factory jobs (which supported my neighborhood) out of the country to mexico, and then from mexico to china. there are some people who live in 3rd world conditions in the ghetto. i know, i've been to their homes, and i've stayed with a mayan family in chiapas, mexico and there isn't much difference. other than the family in mexico could actually raise chickens and ***** to eat, and didn't have roaches infesting their homes and sewer rats. but they did have satellite tv like most homes in the ghetto here.


  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    “Last week, the Obama campaign sent out a letter on behalf of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee that made two points, one implicit and the other explicit. The implicit point is that Obama himself has no problem raising money for his own campaign, and he’s got the presidency in the bag. The explicit point is that since Obama’s already won this thing, he’s asking donors to focus on supporting Democratic candidates for Congress. Said the letter, ‘We must have a deadlock-proof Democratic majority.’ So the guy running on ‘unity’ and ‘working across the aisle’ has neither the desire nor the intention to foster ‘unity’ or ‘work across the aisle.’ He wants to pound the Republicans into dust so he doesn’t have to deal with them at all. He wants a Democratic majority so lopsided that he can plow his far-left agenda right through. And he wants so many Democrats crawling the hallways of Capitol Hill that he won’t have to work as hard at all that exhausting and pesky persuasion and compromise. Change you can believe in? Sure, as long as it’s only his version of change. Unity? Sure, as long as Republicans are willing to bend to him and his liberal agenda. Working across the aisle? Sure, as long as the Democrats are so dominant that the aisle barely exists. With Obama, watch what he does, not what he says, because the silver tongue promises what the politician has no intention of delivering.” —Monica Crowley
    duh! what do you expect. mccain would want it the same way in his favor.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    i don't know about all of that, but china pulls a million people out of poverty everyday.
    So...we should change America to a more China like style of government? Is that what you are advocating?
    ...since you do not favor Capitalism?
    have you ever lived in the inner city, aka the ghetto? i have for 32 years and my neighborhood was devastated in the 80s by reaganomics, and then again by w-2.
    Yes i grew up in the inner city...though the 80's were when my parents had their biggest monetary gains. Capitalism offers that kind of financial opportunity...rather than working on a collective farm or as a doctor that makes the same wages as a peasant.

    capitalism was great when applied to the crack market. but the free market shipped factory jobs (which supported my neighborhood) out of the country to mexico, and then from mexico to china. there are some people who live in 3rd world conditions in the ghetto. i know, i've been to their homes, and i've stayed with a mayan family in chiapas, mexico and there isn't much difference.
    Yet it took you 32 years to get out of the ghetto? JS, crack kills...
    Work hard, save your money and move. It worked for the poor of Europe that left oppression and came to America and has worked millions of times in this country ever since.
    JS: No one owes you anything, not even a penny, it is not the government or someone else's responsibility to lift you out of poverty.
    other than the family in mexico could actually raise chickens and ***** to eat, and didn't have roaches infesting their homes and sewer rats. but they did have satellite tv like most homes in the ghetto here.
    If your spending your limited amount of money on satellite TV and applying capitalism to the selling of crack it is no wonder it took you 32 years to escape “the ghetto”.

    You are responsible for your self and i doubt few would go along with wish to turn this country into a more China-like country as you seem to be advocating.

    But I could be wrong: Feel free to start a poll....

  4. #144
    Forum Member Raughammer1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    duh! what do you expect. mccain would want it the same way in his favor.
    *grin* i am not a huge mccain fan but he has a history of working across the aisle. Often times at the Repubilcan party's expense.

    McCain has proven he has, would, and will work to bridge the aisle between the two partys....Obama has nothing but words.

    Words are one thing (not much) but a proven track record of working with both partys is much more telling of how the candidate(s) would act in the future.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    So...we should change America to a more China like style of government? Is that what you are advocating?
    ...since you do not favor Capitalism?

    Yes i grew up in the inner city...though the 80's were when my parents had their biggest monetary gains. Capitalism offers that kind of financial opportunity...rather than working on a collective farm or as a doctor that makes the same wages as a peasant.
    you took everything i said the wrong way. i'm not promoting a china style economy, i was just pointing out that they fulfill economic goals without utilizing our system.

    i have never sold crack, nor will i ever. but, in the neighborhood i grew up in it was the most lucrative market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    Yet it took you 32 years to get out of the ghetto? JS, crack kills...
    Work hard, save your money and move. It worked for the poor of Europe that left oppression and came to America and has worked millions of times in this country ever since.
    JS: No one owes you anything, not even a penny, it is not the government or someone else's responsibility to lift you out of poverty.

    If your spending your limited amount of money on satellite TV and applying capitalism to the selling of crack it is no wonder it took you 32 years to escape “the ghetto”.

    You are responsible for your self and i doubt few would go along with wish to turn this country into a more China-like country as you seem to be advocating.

    But I could be wrong: Feel free to start a poll....
    easier said than done. i have a master's degree but i can't even get an interview (in the private sector) in the field i studied in even though i teach in that field at a local university part time. i never said that anyone owed me something, nor did i say that it was the responsibility of the government to pull me out of poverty. i'm still pretty poor, but now i'm in a great neighborhood where people aren't shooting outside my door.

    working hard and saving your money might have worked for the poor of Europe that left oppression and came to America, but what about the descendents of the enslaved of this country? there are two, maybe more, americas. just crack open the door and i can let myself in. i live in milwaukee, wisconsin, and my friends from my neighborhood with college degrees had to leave the state to find a job paying a livable wage. no one would give them a chance here. but i'm stubborn, and i believe that i can make it here, and i shouldn't have to move. plus, i can't afford to because i have kids.

    the point i was making with the satellite tv is that the poor in chiapas are privy to the same luxuries as the poor here. since you grew up in the inner city, even though your parents made money in the 80s when my friends' parents were being laid off, you should know that somethings are beyond ones control.

    my parents made about six figures when i was a teenager, but they never moved out of the neighborhood. they still live there today. not everyone is poor in the ghetto, but the living standard is something i didn't want my kids to go through. but, it gave me an understanding of life that people in the suburbs aren't privy to.

    in my observation capitalism profits the few, while the many pay for them. i don't really know but i don't think people in norway are complaining about their socialist government. i could be wrong.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    you took everything i said the wrong way.
    My apologies.

    i'm not promoting a china style economy, i was just pointing out that they fulfill economic goals without utilizing our system.
    What economic goals? Who's? While child labor sweat shops and working for pennies a day is better than no pay at all, i do not think that the chinese model of middle class prosperity is one that many Americans would be willing to change to.
    i have never sold crack, nor will i ever. but, in the neighborhood i grew up in it was the most lucrative market.
    JS if you use it as an example others will use it as an example as well. If you use it to make a point others will and should do the same. If those that are living in the ghetto are selling crack and/or paying for satellite TV then no one is going to give a rats azz that they are mired in the "ghetto" for 32 years. It does not take 32 years to save enough money to buy a bus ticket to get out of that environment. I am sorry but i do not see your point in bringing the TV or the crack examples up.

    easier said than done. i have a master's degree but i can't even get an interview (in the private sector) in the field i studied in even though i teach in that field at a local university part time.
    Sorry JS, your personal experience has been far different from mine. I do not use the degree that i hold to make the money i do today... but the degree i hold opened doors in another field that has been satisfactorily lucrative to keep me out of the ghetto. Sorry your luck or your resume' has not given you the gifts of life you wish they would but exactly why are you bringing these personal problems up? Sir if there are no jobs in your area, MOVE. The unemployment rate in Houston is at 3.5%. If you try and farm in the desert you will most likely fail. But if you move to a more fertile area your chances of being successful will most probably improve...hey, I’m just sayin'.
    i never said that anyone owed me something, nor did i say that it was the responsibility of the government to pull me out of poverty. i'm still pretty poor, but now i'm in a great neighborhood where people aren't shooting outside my door.
    Sir complaining that:
    1. the rich will get richer, and the poor will get poorer
    2. i'm not even a fan of the free market
    3. i have [lived in the ghetto] for 32 years and my neighborhood was devastated in the 80s by reaganomics, and then again by w-2.
    4. capitalism was great when applied to the crack market

    ...and so on and so forth, it leads people to think you have a beef with the capitalism- the free market - rich people, etc. etc. and that you equate those who make money in this system are taking advantage of all those in the "ghetto".
    I stand by my statements as i hope you stand by those you have made.
    working hard and saving your money might have worked for the poor of Europe that left oppression and came to America, but what about the descendents of the enslaved of this country?
    What is your point, the black men sitting to either side of me make the same money as i do right now...heck one of them has been doing it for nigh 30 years. What about the descendents of the enslaved? Do they deserve some kind of special help the immigrants from Asia, Mexico or the middle east do not? Those folks for the most part seem to be doing pretty good over all...surely the "descendents of the enslaved of this country" are just as good as these ...immigrants. Yes?
    I think you are selling a whole lot of people short...a whole lot of people.

    there are two, maybe more, americas.
    Sorry but there is one America. YOU might want to stick a "hyphen" in front of American but most of us do not. America is what you make of her...

    just crack open the door and i can let myself in.
    Odd others have just walked up and opened the door by themselves for the most part. Why should someone have to crack the door for you?
    We are all equal JS, no one deserves to get the door cracked open FOR them if they are not willing to stand up and open it themselves.
    i live in milwaukee, wisconsin, and my friends from my neighborhood with college degrees had to leave the state to find a job paying a livable wage.
    Yea, thats the way it goes sometimes. Sounds like you had some smart friends.
    no one would give them a chance here. but i'm stubborn, and i believe that i can make it here, and i shouldn't have to move. plus, i can't afford to because i have kids.
    Sounds like to me your pride is hurting you...and your kids. I wish you all the luck in the world and all the success you desire but to keep doing the same thing and that "thing" leads to failure, well that is not the wisest decision IMO. The quickest way out of a hole to stop diggin’.
    the point i was making with the satellite tv is that the poor in chiapas are privy to the same luxuries as the poor here. since you grew up in the inner city, even though your parents made money in the 80s when my friends' parents were being laid off, you should know that somethings are beyond ones control.
    Sir, yes...sometimes. But life is what you make of it and millions before you and it seems, even your friends understood that the economy changes, it always changes. An area that is lucrative now might not be so successful in the future and we have to change our actions to be successful accordingly. What might have been beyond your control THEN, as a child is one thing. But now you’re an adult, you more (most probably) than have the means to purchase a bus ticket and move to a more lucrative area if that was your goal. Hispanics from other countries move to this area all the time and I assure you, many of them are MUCH less wealthy than you most probably are. (Not to mention they oft times do not even speak English…)

    my parents made about six figures when i was a teenager, but they never moved out of the neighborhood.
    Mine made a lot less than half that… neither them even added together ever made even close to that kind of money.
    they still live there today. not everyone is poor in the ghetto, but the living standard is something i didn't want my kids to go through. but, it gave me an understanding of life that people in the suburbs aren't privy to.
    The living standard in the suburbs is absolutely great… (comparatively speaking) I never want to go back to living in the “city”. I will take raising my children “here” over “there” any day.

    in my observation capitalism profits the few, while the many pay for them.
    in my observation capitalism profits those who work for it, while those who will not work for it suffer in misery.
    i don't really know but i don't think people in norway are complaining about their socialist government. i could be wrong.
    So…move to Norway? Or your other example of poor to prosperity: China.
    What ever you decide please don’t try and change my country into Norway; just move there. No one is stopping you, but you…

    Thanks for the conversation, have a great night.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    So...we should change America to a more China like style of government? Is that what you are advocating?
    ...since you do not favor Capitalism?

    Yes i grew up in the inner city...though the 80's were when my parents had their biggest monetary gains. Capitalism offers that kind of financial opportunity...rather than working on a collective farm or as a doctor that makes the same wages as a peasant.

    Yet it took you 32 years to get out of the ghetto? JS, crack kills...
    Work hard, save your money and move. It worked for the poor of Europe that left oppression and came to America and has worked millions of times in this country ever since.
    JS: No one owes you anything, not even a penny, it is not the government or someone else's responsibility to lift you out of poverty.


    If your spending your limited amount of money on satellite TV and applying capitalism to the selling of crack it is no wonder it took you 32 years to escape “the ghetto”.

    You are responsible for your self and i doubt few would go along with wish to turn this country into a more China-like country as you seem to be advocating.

    But I could be wrong: Feel free to start a poll....
    He's one of those American poor. You know, with a car, air conditioning and three TV's. Yet he has the gonads to compare himself to the poor in China and other third world nations? It didn't take him 32 years to get out of the inner city. It took him 32 years to WANT to get out of the inner city.
    Last edited by GeorgeWendtCFI; 08-06-2008 at 06:38 AM.
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    working hard and saving your money might have worked for the poor of Europe that left oppression and came to America, but what about the descendents of the enslaved of this country? there are two, maybe more, americas. just crack open the door and i can let myself in. i live in milwaukee, wisconsin, and my friends from my neighborhood with college degrees had to leave the state to find a job paying a livable wage. no one would give them a chance here. but i'm stubborn, and i believe that i can make it here, and i shouldn't have to move. plus, i can't afford to because i have kids.
    Your "plight" sounds like alot of the people on here. People who wanted to be fire fighters and could not get a job where they lived. So they packed up and moved to where the jobs were. See a theme here?

    Two Americas? Nonsense. From your post, I am getting that you are African-American. If I am wrong, I apologize. But if I am right, you really need to read the words you have been writing.

    The "two Americas" apparently did not hurt your parents. They were able to make six figures. Yet, they did not want to abandon their neighborhood. They are exercizing their freedom to live where they want to live. They are not stuck.

    The "two Americas" do not seem to have hurt you either. You have the most important key to success a person can have-education. You had the opportunity to get that education w/o regard to your race, color, etc. You had the freedom to live where you want, too.

    Seems to me that, whatever your race, you are one of the Reparations crowd. Let me tell you, I didn't own slaves. None of my relatives ever owned slaves. No one I know owned slaves. I do not owe anyone anything. The insinuation that African Americans cannot get ahead on their own is a blatant insult to African Americans. Especially the huge number of Amercian Americans who have worked hard and become successful, just like I did.

    It's all about education and hard work.
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  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Your "plight" sounds like alot of the people on here. People who wanted to be fire fighters and could not get a job where they lived. So they packed up and moved to where the jobs were. See a theme here?

    Two Americas? Nonsense. From your post, I am getting that you are African-American. If I am wrong, I apologize. But if I am right, you really need to read the words you have been writing.

    The "two Americas" apparently did not hurt your parents. They were able to make six figures. Yet, they did not want to abandon their neighborhood. They are exercizing their freedom to live where they want to live. They are not stuck.

    The "two Americas" do not seem to have hurt you either. You have the most important key to success a person can have-education. You had the opportunity to get that education w/o regard to your race, color, etc. You had the freedom to live where you want, too.

    Seems to me that, whatever your race, you are one of the Reparations crowd. Let me tell you, I didn't own slaves. None of my relatives ever owned slaves. No one I know owned slaves. I do not owe anyone anything. The insinuation that African Americans cannot get ahead on their own is a blatant insult to African Americans. Especially the huge number of Amercian Americans who have worked hard and become successful, just like I did.

    It's all about education and hard work.

    Bing-freaking-o!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  10. #150
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    In my mere 34 years of life, I've ridden the economic rollercoaster more than many people twice my age.

    I was raised in a typical middle class life. My father was a cop, my mom a book keeper. I didn't have everything I wanted, but I had enough. My needs were always met, and some of my wants, so I really have no room to complain about my childhood.

    As an adult however, I became the type of person people don't speak well of. I was never a criminal, but I didn't want to work. My wife enabled me to do that, but it was still my fault. We were dirt poor. Family members brought us groceries so we wouldn't starve. I can never repay those family members, because it was my fault we were there.

    When my son was born however, I woke up. I stepped up and realized it was past time to be a man and take care of business. I got my butt to work. It wasn't much, just temp jobs mostly, but it paid the bills. I kept working hard, and moving forward. While I had spans where there was no income, it wasn't for lack of trying. I'll admit it too, it was frustrating during those times.

    That hard work paid off. Today, I make more than both of my parents. I'm not particularly educated either. I've got some college, but no degree. I did this on pure hard work and doing a good job. Nothing more, nothing less.

    To say that people can't get ahead in a free market economy is pure BS. No, I'm not a millioniare, but that was never my goal. My goal is to support my family, pay my bills, and be able to have a little fun now and then. If my slacker butt was able to get into a better life, then anyone can.

    It has nothing to do with race, religion, gender, blood type, or anything else. It has to do with pure force of will. If you want it badly enough, you will achieve it. Period.

  11. #151
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=jsin925;975454]my pops worked for the irs and he would tell me that the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes.

    Really? I guess that the top 1% of taxpayers paying half of all personal income taxes collected is not enough? How much (dare I ask) is? Please enlighten me.

    http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxst...=96981,00.html

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

    Considering that I make what equates to being the top 10% on my own (not including my wife's income) I would love for you, scfire, and Noz to tell me how much more I should fork out to the government?

    As it has been said by many before, we do not have a taxation problem, we have a spending problem in this nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    congress would always change the tax laws when the middle class would start to benefit from them. i guess at one point one could write off the interest one paid on credit cards, but when the middle class started obtaining credit cards that law flew off the books.
    Actually, no need to declare your credit card interest. It is no different than any other loan - since that is exactly what a credit card is - that you are given. Pay off your debts and save a ton more money instead of carrying a debt burden, harming yourself financially, and have more money to spend.

    And there is more to it than that. I claim what is allowed by law, and since I paid just shy of $10,000 in student loan interest in 2007, I got a whopping deal on my taxes let me tell you. I got a whopping $2,500 in credit for my $10,000 out of pocket in interest alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    the middle class (in my opinion) has a greater sense of dignity, morality and fidelity than the rich.
    Careful now, most of the members of Congress (now a majority Democrat) are multimillionaires.......Don't insult your Liberal friends. Because as liberals have made known - Democrats and Liberals have never, do no, and will never do any wrong.

    And what exactly qualifies one as rich? How much do I have to make before I am considered "rich?" I do want to know, because I have never - and I do mean NEVER - heard any politician or person on the left (who all hate anyone with any financial resources) tell me who is really considered "rich."

    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    the privatization of things is bad though.
    So the government should run hospitals? The government should run drug stores? Restaurants? Stores? Car manufacturers? Since privatization is bad, please explain to me how our nation operates?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    at least things in the public sector are accountable to the public.
    Excuse me while I bust a gut.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Wow! Way to completely avoid the issue and my question. Good job!
    He has probably learned from you. Since you do not answer questions proposed to you.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsin925 View Post
    hey, i don't like obama, nor do i like mccain. i'm just calling it like i see it. between those two, i don't care who wins. nothing will change. the rich will get richer, and the poor will get poorer. both parties suck.
    You are right, both parties stink.

    As for the rich getting richer, it is (partially) because they want to.

    I grew up poor. Now I am considered "rich" apparently according to the IRS. Please go through my finances and tell me where?

    The poor can get "rich" through the same methods others have. Hard work, education, drive, and patience. It is possible. Millions have done it in this nation since its founding.

    But to use scfire's point, please tell me where there is a higher standard of living?
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1066 View Post
    In my mere 34 years of life, I've ridden the economic rollercoaster more than many people twice my age.

    I was raised in a typical middle class life. My father was a cop, my mom a book keeper. I didn't have everything I wanted, but I had enough. My needs were always met, and some of my wants, so I really have no room to complain about my childhood.

    As an adult however, I became the type of person people don't speak well of. I was never a criminal, but I didn't want to work. My wife enabled me to do that, but it was still my fault. We were dirt poor. Family members brought us groceries so we wouldn't starve. I can never repay those family members, because it was my fault we were there.

    When my son was born however, I woke up. I stepped up and realized it was past time to be a man and take care of business. I got my butt to work. It wasn't much, just temp jobs mostly, but it paid the bills. I kept working hard, and moving forward. While I had spans where there was no income, it wasn't for lack of trying. I'll admit it too, it was frustrating during those times.

    That hard work paid off. Today, I make more than both of my parents. I'm not particularly educated either. I've got some college, but no degree. I did this on pure hard work and doing a good job. Nothing more, nothing less.

    To say that people can't get ahead in a free market economy is pure BS. No, I'm not a millioniare, but that was never my goal. My goal is to support my family, pay my bills, and be able to have a little fun now and then. If my slacker butt was able to get into a better life, then anyone can.

    It has nothing to do with race, religion, gender, blood type, or anything else. It has to do with pure force of will. If you want it badly enough, you will achieve it. Period.
    Careful Tomcat - there are those on these boards and in politics who do not want to hear that you can/did something to overcome adversity without the government helping.

    It is not good for their agenda.

    I posted my experiences before - somewhat similar - and was belittled by tow people on here for being able to rise from being poor to being considered "rich" by the IRS.

    How dare people better themselves. HOW DARE THEY!
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Careful Tomcat - there are those on these boards and in politics who do not want to hear that you can/did something to overcome adversity without the government helping.

    It is not good for their agenda.

    I posted my experiences before - somewhat similar - and was belittled by tow people on here for being able to rise from being poor to being considered "rich" by the IRS.

    How dare people better themselves. HOW DARE THEY!
    Yeah, I know people like that as well.

    I really couldn't give less of a ***** what folks like that tend to think

    I did it, I'm proud of it, and I refuse to accept that others can't do as well or better than I did. Frankly, they could probably do better than me if they want it. It isn't that hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    If you think the price-fixing son of a bitches that run the oil companies are going to lower their prices after we pay through the nose for them to drill all those holes you want, you're crazier than I thought you were.
    Its not just the Oil Companies. OPEC will most assuredly raise their price (or lower their output) to account for any new supply and the price at the pump will stay relatively the same.

    Also note that here pump prices have fallen 30-40 cents/gallon in the last week or so based purely on the debate on drilling and possible weather in the Gulf. If that's not a sign that speculation is a large part of the price, I don't know what is.
    So you call this your free country
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    Its not just the Oil Companies. OPEC will most assuredly raise their price (or lower their output) to account for any new supply and the price at the pump will stay relatively the same.

    Also note that here pump prices have fallen 30-40 cents/gallon in the last week or so based purely on the debate on drilling and possible weather in the Gulf. If that's not a sign that speculation is a large part of the price, I don't know what is.
    The fall in oil prices can be directly attributed to the date when Pres. Bush announced he was lifting the ban on off shore drilling. Prices started their freefall the next day. It was not a coincidence.

    The best way for us to deal with the OPEC issue is to utilize the resources we are sitting on and then have a National Day of Celebration. We can call it the "Kiss My *** OPEC Day".
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    “Capitalism is the greatest system ever created for alleviating general human misery, and yet it breeds ingratitude. People ask, ‘Why is there poverty in the world?’ It’s a silly question. Poverty is the default human condition... The interesting question isn’t ‘Why is there poverty?’ It’s ‘Why is there wealth?’ Or: ‘Why is there prosperity here but not there?’ At the end of the day, the first answer is capitalism, rightly understood. That is to say: free markets, private property, the spirit of entrepreneurialism and the conviction that the fruits of your labors are your own... In large measure our wealth isn’t the product of capitalism, it is capitalism. And yet we hate it. Leaving religion out of it, no idea has given more to humanity. The average working-class person today is richer, in real terms, than the average prince or potentate of 300 years ago. His food is better, his life longer, his health better, his menu of entertainments vastly more diverse, his toilette infinitely more civilized. And yet we constantly hear how cruel capitalism is while this collectivism or that is more loving because, unlike capitalism, collectivism is about the group, not the individual... Meanwhile, billions have ridden capitalism out of poverty. And yet the children of capitalism still whine.” —Jonah Goldberg
    And a lot of that is due via things like the Sherman Anti Trust Act, Pure Food and Drug Act, and Fail Labor Standards Act. You know.....government. The business community fought tough and nail against the abolition of child labor and has continually fought against issues regarding workplace safety. Both of those are in place and the world hasn't come to an end.

    Capitalism is a great engine of progress and its own worst enemy. It’s so good at pulling money out of the goose that lays the golden egg that it’ll eventually destroy it. The current financial mess is a good example. Oil companies making these levels of profit while the rest of the economy founders ( and indeed where those profits and the prices that create them are a major contributor to the foundering), is not just supply and demand doing its Godlike Adam Smith work. It’s exploitation of the highest order. The good of the larger society demands that the problem be at least examined, if not corrective action of some sort (and note that I don’t claim to be bright enough to know what that action might be). I just know that when I’m being screwed over,whether by governmental overreaching or by corporate greed, I have options in a free society to do something other than accept my fate.
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-06-2008 at 10:20 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    The best way for us to deal with the OPEC issue is to utilize the resources we are sitting on and then have a National Day of Celebration. We can call it the "Kiss My *** OPEC Day".
    I would go one step further and start developing renewal energy sources. One of the few things I did like about the Carter Administration was his vision of putting that effort in place. Most likely he was motivated by having endured two manufactured oil shortages during the 70's.

    It was abandoned when Reagan took office (with a Dem congress) and I believe we are dealing with the ramifications of that decision now.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I would go one step further and start developing renewal energy sources. One of the few things I did like about the Carter Administration was his vision of putting that effort in place. Most likely he was motivated by having endured two manufactured oil shortages during the 70's.

    It was abandoned when Reagan took office (with a Dem congress) and I believe we are dealing with the ramifications of that decision now.
    I'm not sure exactly what you mean by renewable energy sources. But I would 100% agree that we should be looking towards an expansion of wind power (Oh wait, the Dems don't like that), nuclear power (Oh wait, the Dems don't like that), clean coal power (Oh wait, the Dems don't like that), solar power (I think they might be OK with that) and natural gas, especially in vehicles (Oh wait, the Dems don't like that).

    Bio fuels and ethanol are not going to cut it. People are really not going to stand much longer for a fuel source that is interrupting the food supply and raising havoc with prices.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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