Foam Pro Foam Systems
Wondering what are some of your thoughts concerning Foam Pro Systems A or B, or A/B systems doesn't matter? Any hard evidence who is the top dog in the foam system business. Oh and I am talking about injection systems but, around the pump systems would be good info too? Thanks
Our new tanker has a foam pro system and we love it. It's praticaly idiot proof to run. It keeps track of your foam and water flow amounts and a bunch of other neat features.
Only this we would change is put an indicator light on the pump panel for the on load off load / pump valve. We didn't know much abou tthe foam pro when we got it so we would never have caught it in the spec.
As for why there has been 2 times we went to flow foam and couldn't, becasue that valve was moved and left in the on load/ off load position. I feel, the operator should be able to look at his panel and know if it's in on/off load or pump position with out having to go to the other side of the rig and open an access panel to look and see.
Foam Pro Proportioner
My department has a Foam Pro proportioner system for Class A foam on our 1997 engine and our 2005 engine. We have been very pleased with the service from both units. We have a 50 gallon foam cell on each rig and it has worked well for us. If your department does go with this system, they will not be disappointed, but here are some points to remember when you spec your rig:
1. Install the Auto Fill system to fill the foam cell. It is much better than climbing on top of the truck to pour foam in the top.
2. Ensure that the foam pump is easily accessible. The pump oil needs to changed annually and if the pump is in a compartment, you will not be able to drain the oil. I ended up cutting holes in the compartment floor and side wall to allow the oil to drain out and to view the oil level sight glass.
3. Ensure that the foam filter/screen is installed in an accessible location. The screen must be removed and cleaned periodically. If it is in a hard to reach location, then it will be difficult to clean.
4. The system must be calibrated annually as part of the NFPA 1911 Annual Performance Test. The foam flow calibration, the water flowmeters and the amount of water used must be calibrated. These settings will get off some over time. Failure to calibrate these can cause too much foam, or an insufficient foam concentration in the discharge. The bright side of this is that the calibration is very easy to perform.
Hope this helps you.
Our fire department has Foam Pro 2001 systems for Class A foam on 3 units. Systems work well, are easy to use, and we have had no problems since installation, the first one in 2000. Units are piped to two 1.75" crosslays and a front trash line, and we feel that they have been very effective in improving fire supression and overhaul.
I also work in apparatus sales, and from our experience would not recommend an A/B system unless you go to a Foam Pro 3012 which has a rotary gear pump, rather than the piston pump used in the Foam Pro 2001 and 2002. The 2001 and 2002 have trouble handling the viscosity of most Class B foams. The 3012 system is a great system, but is PTO driven rather than 12V, and quite a bit more expensive, plus would require two PTO's on an engine if you also have a hyraulic generator which can be a mounting problem.
If you need an A/B system, take a look at the Hale FoamLogix 3.3 or 5.0. They use a 12V electric motor and handle the higher viscosity foams. Operation is simple, just like the Foam Pro.
Before investing in an A/B system, I would ask yourself how often you use B foam and whether the extra cost is worth it. In addition, as soon as you break the seal and pour Class B into a tank, it starts to deteriorate, and lack of use often causes it to gel, which is a real cost and maintenance issue. It's hard to beat a simple eductor on a side dischrage for Class B foam use.
we have the foam pro 3012 system because we use thicker class b foam and it pumps more then the 2001,2002 models.
We have both the 1600 and 2000 systems. They both work pretty good, but IMHO I would recomend the 1600 for brush rigs as it has a small gpm foam pump. 2000 and up for engines.
Like others have sugested, stay on the maintenance and make sure every thing is accessible. Keep the motor drive box and the "Cal/Inject Valve" Close to the operator.
The most common problem we have with them is the system loosing its prime.
I have to second EVTRon's suggestions, especially #3, all of us should check the screen, new poly tanks have lots of shaving in them and they end up in the screen. Don't forget to bleed the system once you clean the screen, otherwise it won't work (see you manual, its in there).
9594stephen, how big of a system are you talking about? You want 2 handlines or the ability to pump a Class B deluge system at a tank farm? It makes a big difference in what you need.
If you're going to run Ar-AFFF (Cl B in general) ensure builder installs minimum 1"tank to foam pump line.
But you might as well ask why on board Cl B tank. If you need Cl B you're likely going to need a LOT of foam so perhaps educt from drums/totes vs the little dab you might have in a integral foam tank. Recently looking at a Feecon FoaMidget around the pump eductor. Looks promising as will make a LOT of foam (all discharges will be foam) and equipment compact in size and cost is only around $2000.
I think the idea is to be as similar as our 07 ALF pumper which has an 20-25 Gallon A/B Foam Pro system. The committee has decided that a Class A system is impractical if we do not use it, so hence canned the A system and make it a strictly a 25 gallon, B system as we run mutual aid to areas that have Petro, and not to mention the NAS Base which is basically across the street from us. There are some concerns regarding the costs of a Foam Pro vs. (A or B manufacter). Anyway thats the theory, just to keep it somewhat uniform from one engine to the other for training purposes and ease of use.
Again, to repeat what's been said, but if you plan to do anything serious in a Class B fire with foam, 25 gallons isn't going to get you far.
I've heard it from industry experts over and over, even the folks that sell the foam systems.
This is what we did after years of buying pumpres with small B tanks. We found that we didn't carry enough for most actual incidents, so we skipped the costs and associated issues in favor of a regional foam trailer. Why should a bunch of small FD's buy B foam systems that are too small and then never get used? Get one unit that can actually function at a B type incident and spend the saved money on something you'll use.
Originally Posted by npfd801
@3% 25gal is only going to treat 825gal of water. Will Cl A you get buy with a fairly inexpensive foam pump. Cl B you'll need to step up to Hale 3.3 or FoamPro 2000 series. Significantly more $.
If you need it you need it but then you need to plan on foam by the barrel not the pail.
This is BIG issue (totally unresolved) out here in Iowa with 100m gal/yr ethanol plants about every 10mi.
Or you can do what we did,spec the outside tap so you can feed it from a barrel or trailers.Autofill is a MUST in my book.As the others have said,it is a user friendly system once you get used to it. T.C.
No, I certainly understand what you guys are saying but, we would use it as a first/intial response type. We have a mutual aid agreement with the base and if anything were to happen on a more serious level they would certainly be on there way to a particular call with the Crash Trucks.
Getting additional foam to us is not a problem if needed.
The Autofill is a separate pod which contains a 12 or 24 V pump which uses a sensor in the tank and transfers foam from a ground level control panel to your foam tank.It can be used in autofill mode(automatically shuts off when the tank senses full) or manually,fills until the tank runs over.It also has a valve for flushing. T.C.
For initial attack you don't need Class B foam, B's strength is its film forming properties that create a persistent protective layer over the fuel to seal it off from the air. Class A foam, especially richly mixed (1%), will make a very nice suppression foam, but will need to be maintained until real B shows up on scene. Compared to B, with just A on the truck you don't have to worry about age gelling, its less expensive, and its more environmentally friendly
There are also several brands of dual purpose foams being made, though I don't have any experience with those it might be a great one stop shopping.