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    Default ALF and International joining forces

    Looks like ALF and International are looking to work togther to build low cab over engine vocational trucks. Not sure how this will affect the fire service.


    Navistar, American LaFrance Plan Vocational Truck Joint Venture


    Last update: 5:34 p.m. EDT Aug. 6, 2008

    WARRENVILLE, Ill., Aug 06, 2008 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Two leaders in commercial transportation have new plans to work together to develop, manufacture and support low cab-over engine (LCOE) vocational trucks.
    Navistar, Inc. and American LaFrance, LLC today announced plans to launch a joint venture that will combine the strengths and resources of both companies to manufacture and distribute vocational trucks for domestic and global markets.

    The initial product focus will target the refuse and construction segments with future products planned for additional vocational markets. Through the venture, the American LaFrance Summerville, SC, manufacturing facility will become the manufacturing hub for the new products.

    "We believe the strengths of our vocational line are exponentially enhanced when combined with the proprietary components, engines and distribution of Navistar," said Patriarch Partners Chief Executive Lynn Tilton. "This will be an exciting journey to build a broad global product offering and we are honored to combine the talents and names of Navistar and American LaFrance."
    The joint venture will build upon the engineering platform of American LaFrance and further enhance the product offering with proprietary Navistar components. Navistar engines will be incorporated within the product offering providing a clear advantage for the new line of trucks heading into the 2010 EPA emission requirements.

    "Working with American LaFrance is another example of Navistar's strategy of growth through leveraging our own assets and those that others have built," said Daniel C. Ustian, Navistar chairman, president and CEO. "This relationship provides us with a new opportunity to further grow our business globally and meet the needs of customers through a new line of vocational vehicles."
    The companies have commissioned teams to focus on truck and engine opportunities. The initiatives contemplated by the Term Sheet are subject to completion of due diligence, execution of definitive agreements and regulatory approvals.

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    Stand by for the return of the CO 8190!
    Last edited by chiefengineer11; 08-07-2008 at 04:08 PM.

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    there was a guy, i forget his name, but some guy used to work at ALF and now he's with International...jeez, whats his name, I forget, getting old sucks, but that guy, Jim something or other...I wonder if he has anything to do with this.

    very interesting.

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    Just recently there was talk of of a merger between navistar & the GMC medium & HD trucks. that deal seems to have gone the way of the albatross. Obviously IH is looking for a larger market share for it's maxforce engine line, and to suppliment there medium duty chassis line into different markets.

    We'll see how this plays out over time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyhunter View Post
    there was a guy, i forget his name, but some guy used to work at ALF and now he's with International...jeez, whats his name, I forget, getting old sucks, but that guy, Jim something or other...I wonder if he has anything to do with this.

    very interesting.
    Deputy,

    Read through your post.... you just had yourself a two person conversation. I hope this is NOT what my future holds for me

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Just recently there was talk of of a merger between navistar & the GMC medium & HD trucks. that deal seems to have gone the way of the albatross. Obviously IH is looking for a larger market share for it's maxforce engine line, and to suppliment there medium duty chassis line into different markets.

    We'll see how this plays out over time.

    Yep that Chevy deal started to fall apart a month ago. But just recently did we get strong info that it was a dead deal. Cheyv still has not officially called it a dead deal.

    But they are accepting orders and giving out projected deiverys into next year from what I've been told. Originally after the deal was announced we were told the last build dates would be Sept 30th, 2008.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyhunter View Post
    there was a guy, i forget his name, but some guy used to work at ALF and now he's with International...jeez, whats his name, I forget, getting old sucks, but that guy, Jim something or other...I wonder if he has anything to do with this.

    very interesting.
    Is it Hebe?
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    Default LaFrance, Navistar team up in global venture

    Take Care & be SAFE
    Bert

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lieutenant387 View Post
    Is it Hebe?
    YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!

    That guy.....

    wonder if he has something to do with this?

    wasn't he, like, the guy who ran the upholstery shop or something like that at ALF?

    damn memory fades more everyday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Just recently there was talk of of a merger between navistar & the GMC medium & HD trucks. that deal seems to have gone the way of the albatross. Obviously IH is looking for a larger market share for it's maxforce engine line, and to suppliment there medium duty chassis line into different markets.

    We'll see how this plays out over time.
    For the new MaxxForce 11 & 13 (IH/MANN partnership) engines you're likely correct. My prediction is that these engines will become the alternate choice in the fire market (to Cummins). Specs and discussion of these engines is very positive. 1st units have been delivered. Still leaves a hole at 15l but MANN makes engines as big as you could want.

    Sucks to be GM. A division they publiclly euthanized now no longer has an real engine plan (after CAT quits). So who's the buyer for that?

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    This is interesting about ALF and IHC. I also heard that IHC is also hooking up with Cat. From the E-mail I had a chance to read Cat wants to develop a chassis for the heavy duty off road market, I have to assume IHC is building it and painting it yellow. Cat is having trouble meeting the new emmisions standards so I assume they will share in each others technologies.

    Stay low

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    Wasn't the Seagrave Intruder chassis powered by Navistar as well? I wonder if that deal is off now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    For the new MaxxForce 11 & 13 (IH/MANN partnership) engines you're likely correct. My prediction is that these engines will become the alternate choice in the fire market (to Cummins). Specs and discussion of these engines is very positive. 1st units have been delivered. Still leaves a hole at 15l but MANN makes engines as big as you could want.
    The Mann's that we had in electrical power plant service when I was stationed in western Australia were measured in cubic feet displacement per cylinder and they were 16 cylinder low speed diesels. If my memory is right they were in the neighborhood of 3,800 BHP. shouldn't be hard for them to meet the 15 l market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    For the new MaxxForce 11 & 13 (IH/MANN partnership) engines you're likely correct. My prediction is that these engines will become the alternate choice in the fire market (to Cummins). Specs and discussion of these engines is very positive. 1st units have been delivered. Still leaves a hole at 15l but MANN makes engines as big as you could want.
    Conversations with a Cummins rep at the Spartan FTTC indicated a real "effort" to find a way to get the ISX into at least Spartan chassis soon... It sounds like there will be three dispacements in the ISX, where you have a 10.8L ISM and a 15.0L ISX now. There will be no more ISM after 2010 and what I believe will be 11.9L, 15.0L and 16.0L dispacements available in the ISX.

    One more reason to like the heavier Cummins engines in 2010, no urea injection to meet emissions requirements.

    I'd like to see another engine offering in custom fire apparatus, but what concerns me is that regardless of Cummins or IH/MANN engines fire truck chassis and engine builders are going to be very hesitant to pay a ton of money to engineer their products for a bunch of different engine brands and sizes, considering the limited return of investment for the number of chassis sold per year. One wonders if you'll see Brand A opt to offer and ally with Cummins only, perhaps Brand B with IH/MANN only...

    Sorry to go more off topic, in a rambling mood I guess.
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    Having also spent time with the Cummins reps(and owning a fleet of 'em),that wasn't the impression I got. ISX in a Spartan?: YES,however there was no mention of the ISM going away in 2010. It wouldn't be like Cummins to make three versions of the ISX,it is and will continue to be their big block offering. I guess we'll see in 2010,but knowing what Cummins did to get '07 compliant,I don't see it as a big leap to get '10 compliant.However it IS known that the major players WILL thin out in 2010,Cummins will be there "for the long haul" just as advertised. T.C.

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    I spoke with the local Seagrave guys last week and they advised that they are trying to get the ISX in the up coming upgrades to the Marauder for 2010.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Having also spent time with the Cummins reps(and owning a fleet of 'em),that wasn't the impression I got. ISX in a Spartan?: YES,however there was no mention of the ISM going away in 2010. It wouldn't be like Cummins to make three versions of the ISX,it is and will continue to be their big block offering. I guess we'll see in 2010,but knowing what Cummins did to get '07 compliant,I don't see it as a big leap to get '10 compliant.However it IS known that the major players WILL thin out in 2010,Cummins will be there "for the long haul" just as advertised. T.C.
    T.C.-

    Maybe they'll keep the designation, I don't know. But the link below provides some interesting info.

    http://fleetowner.com/news/topstory/..._duty_engines/

    From the article: "According to Cummins, the heavy-duty 2010 solution will be an “X family engine” and will be offered in 15-liter as well as new 11.9- and 16-liter displacement versions. While these 2010 engines were not officially designated as ISX models at the news conference, it was noted that the heavy-duty ISM engine will be “retired from the North American highway market” in 2010.
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    Interesting. I'm not sure the Fire/Rescue market is considered "on highway"so perhaps the ISM line will or will not be affected.They're still supporting my '62 Int 220 so I'm comfortable our L10's/ISM's will be OK for the duration of their service life. A 16L,oooohhh'm getting a stemmy. I've driven a heavy hauler with the ISX and it's awful nice. Mebbee my new "can"(tanker) will have the new power in it. Time will tell,T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Interesting. I'm not sure the Fire/Rescue market is considered "on highway"so perhaps the ISM line will or will not be affected.They're still supporting my '62 Int 220 so I'm comfortable our L10's/ISM's will be OK for the duration of their service life. A 16L,oooohhh'm getting a stemmy. I've driven a heavy hauler with the ISX and it's awful nice. Mebbee my new "can"(tanker) will have the new power in it. Time will tell,T.C.
    On that note, it is also interesting that Cummins lists the ISX under their Fire/Rescue vocation as 525HP and 1650 lb/ft. Their Heavy Duty Truck vocation lists the ISX as 385-600HP and 1450-1850 lb/ft. Obviously, they do not consider the Fire vocation to be the same as Heavy Duty Truck but, they are both listed under the "on highway" category.

    The high heat caused by stationary pumping is a probably a large part of their reasoning but I have no idea what else they are considering. I am will to bet that a lot of truck committees would kill to get that 600HP critter with enough torque to make Allison cringe in their custom. In the mean time, it is available on RVs.
    Last edited by firepundit; 08-11-2008 at 05:09 PM.

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