1. #26
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    Default I need to clarify my last post....

    Van Isle,you sure you didn't compare those rigs BACKWARDS?
    No I don't believe I have it backwards, although it was a Ferrara salesman that told me that the Ferrara version of the Smeal ladder has all the options. I should clarify that it would be up to the dealer submitting the bid on behalf of Smeal whether or not they wanted to include all the bells and whistles in their bid submission. We do know that everything has options.

    I've been to Smeal,and their bodies are as well built as any I've seen,and over my years I've seen a few
    Then I'm sure your familiar with an extruded body containing full body width crossmembers like an E-One, Ferrara or General. Again in my opinion, a formed body is no where near as strong as an extruded body. Why do most formed body builders only offer a five - seven year structural warranty and extruded bodies are twenty plus years?

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    I believe the purpose of the Line-X interior coating is to leave a pleasing appearance inside the compartments for an extended period of time. Not to mention the fact that it keeps gouges and scratches out when building the unit.
    Oh I admit it does leave a nice appearance, I spec it on our rigs but what I was saying is it is sometimes used as cover-up. E-One for instance has bare compartment interiors as standard, not to save money but because they don't feel it's necessary and the compartments look great without it.

    Not to mention the fact that it keeps gouges and scratches out when building the unit.
    There shouldn't be scratches and gouges from production. If there is it's because they haven't taken the time to protect things. Look at the interior of an E-One, SVI, Ferrara or General and you won't see any scratches or on stainless bodies for that matter.

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    So anyone have pertient information on RK AERIALS ?
    Like already mentioned, RK is marketed under Rosenbauer America so look on their website. RK also sells to Alexis, HME, Fort Garry and others so you can check their sites also

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    Last edited by CanadianFyrTrks; 08-12-2008 at 08:07 AM. Reason: Cause I felt Like it

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    Ferrara DOES NOT have all the options,Smeal holds those cards for THEIR units.I'll check our body warranty but I know it's longer than 5-7 years.As I mentioned earlier Smeal doesn't use Line-X to "hide"anything,rather they use it to protect Hi corrosion/Hi wear areas.Most of their bodies can EASILY do at least one rehab(new chassis)and some of the smaller Midwest units have seen two or three.One can debate at length about which design is "better"but we've used form bodies for years(many)with no issues.So I certainly DO NOT agree that they are inferior to extruded.I'm not a big E-one fan,the early versions were great,but in later years the quality has slipped considerably. An extruded body can be a bit more problematic to fix than a formed body,but as I mentioned earlier most of our formed bodies serve out their service life without being touched.Fortunately we all have choices and can choose what we think is best for OUR depts. Sometimes we get it right,and sometimes we learn for the next rig.For us,we've managed to get it pretty close everytime.Of course it takes 18-24 months of work and research to get there but in the end,the time is well spent.Our next example is due in March,we'll see that pans out. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VanIsleEVT View Post
    Oh I admit it does leave a nice appearance, I spec it on our rigs but what I was saying is it is sometimes used as cover-up. E-One for instance has bare compartment interiors as standard, not to save money but because they don't feel it's necessary and the compartments look great without it.



    There shouldn't be scratches and gouges from production. If there is it's because they haven't taken the time to protect things. Look at the interior of an E-One, SVI, Ferrara or General and you won't see any scratches or on stainless bodies for that matter.
    E-One has been doing it to save money since day one. Not because they are superior to everyone but because it is better suited to their building method.

    "There shouldn't be scratches and gouges from production." This only proves you have never worked is a production environment. When you get a hundred or so units in production with hundreds of workers crawling on everything, sh.. happens.

    Oh, you also need to double check on those full width extruded crossmembers you were talking about. This thread is about aerial bodies.

    Tell me, if those formed aluminum bodies are such crap, why aren't they breaking all over the place? Both methods of construction have good points and bad points and they both are holding up on the rigors of the fire service.

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    Default COmpartment lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by VanIsleEVT View Post
    E-One for instance has bare compartment interiors as standard, not to save money but because they don't feel it's necessary and the compartments look great without it.

    I think it helps reflect more light through out the compartment. We actually go with the swirrled aluminum becasue it reflecs even more. Compartment lighting is damn near as important as scene lighting. Why should you have to fumble through a compartment of **** at night with next to no light? You should be able to open the door and see what you need. Plus how many times after you took delivery of a rig and started placing equipment did you find that something you put in that compartment blocks the one and only light.
    We even go as far as adding ROM lighting on both sides of the door opening in addition to what is standard. And the lighting is all LED... you can't beat it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoofTopTrucky View Post
    We even go as far as adding ROM lighting on both sides of the door opening in addition to what is standard. And the lighting is all LED... you can't beat it.
    Trucky,

    Are you referring to strip lighting?

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    "There shouldn't be scratches and gouges from production." This only proves you have never worked is a production environment. When you get a hundred or so units in production with hundreds of workers crawling on everything, sh.. happens.
    I somewhat agree with you, but the scratches should be repaired when it comes time for the final inspection.

    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    Tell me, if those formed aluminum bodies are such crap, why aren't they breaking all over the place? Both methods of construction have good points and bad points and they both are holding up on the rigors of the fire service.
    I don't believe he ever called a formed body crap. Is what he did say is show him a formed body with a standard 20 year body warranty. I don't believe you will find it on a formed, only on an extruded body.

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    When working for an OEM, you wouldn't believe the amount of things I needed rushed in for the number of times an "OOPS!" occurred. The fondest memory was the day I needed to get a customer a new mirror without their knowledge because someone wasn't paying much attention to the bay doors nearing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    E-One has been doing it to save money since day one. Not because they are superior to everyone but because it is better suited to their building method.

    "There shouldn't be scratches and gouges from production." This only proves you have never worked is a production environment. When you get a hundred or so units in production with hundreds of workers crawling on everything, sh.. happens.....

    Nonsense, may be the case in plant where it doesn't matter.

    Now if you want a REALLY good looking compartment interior, that hides scratches, get the machine turned panels.

    And on undercoating. Ever see the aftermath when moisture gets between the metal and the crap some 3rd grade dropout "technician" sprayed on? You better off with out undercoating on your chassis and paint on your ladder.

    So why aren't you guys talking to Pierce and E-One? Those are the leading manufacturers of aerials in the US. And while your out doing test drives go look at a Bronto, gives you an entirely different additional capability you don't have now. Go try the shopping cart from Rosenbauer, it might even fill your need if you still defining what that need looks like.

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    Thanks LT2410, I don't remember saying formed bodies were crap either, I was just stating that one is superior to the other and offers a longer structural warranty.

    Oh, you also need to double check on those full width extruded crossmembers you were talking about. This thread is about aerial bodies.
    You're right....my bad, I was thinking pumper & rescue bodies when I made that comment.

    There is a place and budget for all body types, for us, formed just hasn't cut it.

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    Neiowa,you want to rethink that? I think there is a builder or two out there producing more AERIAL units than either of those two.Where did you dig up your numbers? T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianFyrTrks View Post
    Trucky,

    Are you referring to strip lighting?

    Yes. You just have to be sure to speck it on BOTH sides of the opening. It's well worth the money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Nonsense, may be the case in plant where it doesn't matter.


    So why aren't you guys talking to Pierce and E-One? Those are the leading manufacturers of aerials in the US. And while your out doing test drives go look at a Bronto, gives you an entirely different additional capability you don't have now. Go try the shopping cart from Rosenbauer, it might even fill your need if you still defining what that need looks like.

    The reason why the department did not talk to the leading manufactures is because they were to proud to admit their mistakes when they ordered from these places before. Our newest and only Peirce is a superb pumper compared to our other pumper. We frankensteined this truck from 10 other manufacturers specs and when Peirce came through with the best result, The leaders of the department blammed Peirce in stead of ourselves. We had issues with the salesman and his communications between us and the manufacturer. He was fired soon after our truck was delivered. His first and only sale, I believe. We enjoy blamming other people for our problems in stead of our own. Some people on the truck committee fought tooth and nail to get the department to even consider Peirce and after the other members agreed to Peirce the Trustees agreed to purchase it. Short and simple! This was a behind the back slap in the face to the members and the committee to not look at Peirce during this ladder tower purchase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    I'm with C6: the type of bucket configuration is quite important to us. I can't for the life of me understand why builders are still making square/rectangular buckets with flat faces and either no lip or just on the front. When it comes to being able to best make the objective, those buckets with angled corners and large lip edges are the most versatile.
    Interesting update from E-One. Maybe someone is listening or actually understands the use of their devices but I just saw a new E-One tower ladder with a nice bucket with angle cut corners and angled entry doors with one latch operation. This was one of the things we didn't like about E-One towers when we bought ours. The new bucket also has more room that the previous rectangular one. Now if they'd make the controls movable and allow a tiller bar controlled gun they'd be pretty sweet. They already have the best jacking system hands down! maybe make the bucket touch the ground in less than 60+ft as well, but they're certainly making improvements.

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    For information on Smeal and Ferrara aerials look in your own back yard. Braidwood FPD has a midmount tower, different beast but they can give you service issues, warranty coverage, and so on. I know one of the guys that spec'd the rig. He operates on a 75' E-one quint full-time and can give you both perspectives. PM me for his name. Also Look at Bolingbrook. They operate a 77' Ferrara Rearmount Stick. I know they have had some electrical glitches and minor problems. Good luck with the spec's hope this helps.

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    Can any of the truck gurus explain the value of an angled bucket versus rectangular. I assume its got something to do with being easier to get in and out of when up against buildings/roofs?

    Thanks

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    Lightbulb Not quite a Guru...but

    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610 View Post
    Can any of the truck gurus explain the value of an angled bucket versus rectangular. I assume its got something to do with being easier to get in and out of when up against buildings/roofs?

    Thanks
    You're right on MG. When placing the tower for multiple objectives (most sets) the angled bucket allows you better entry and egress when the bucket isn't square to the building. In a perfect set the face with the opening would be perpendicular to the objective. With as rectangular bucket this only leaves one "perfect" set, with the angled corners you have three. Given that often the best place for a tower is at a corner where it can make two walls, the rectangular bucket will be harder to enter and exit due to the angles. While it might not be as big a deal to us as firefighters, when a person looks out the 6th story window and is told to "climb in" the less ground and more bucket they can see the better!

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    I've never considered Smeal until recently. We've recently demoed every midmount platform. The Smeal really impressed us. The setup, operation, and overall fit and finish was good. No other Ladder can match thier reach and below grade reach. We looked at the big manufacturers. They were good also ,but for the price the Smeal is alot of truck that will do everything and more that the big manufacturers can for a few 100g less.
    Remember, Smeal used to supply Pierce with thier aerials for quite a few years. If you look at a Pierce midmount you see similarities between Smeal and and LTI.

    I could be wrong but I think Smeal's ladders arent multiplexed as far as the bucket and outrigger controls. One less computer cotrolled part of the truck to worry about.

    Rescue can you post some pics of yours.

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    Hehe,not yet.The chassis isn't due at the factory until mid November.I won't have much to show until February.Finished product due to be shipped out early March '09.As details become available I'll post them. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610 View Post
    Can any of the truck gurus explain the value of an angled bucket versus rectangular. I assume its got something to do with being easier to get in and out of when up against buildings/roofs?

    Thanks
    RFD is right on about the operational advantages to the angled platforms. We were talking to an E-one engineer and he also explained that there is a high incidenct of platfrom "strikes" at the front corners of the bucket. E-one looks for a lot of end user feedback, like anyone else I'm sure, and apparently there are a lot of platforms out there with dinged up corners from approaching targets from an angle.
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    Since this will be your largest capital expenditure on wheels, you deserve it not to limit yourself to the manufacturers you listed. It would also be worthwhile to take a road trip and see what different manufacturers aerials have to offer and talk with the crews that operate them.

    Troy, IL St. Charles, MO St. Louis, MO Smeal 100' ladder towers

    Madison, IL 95' E-One ladder tower

    Kirkwood, MO 100' Pierce ladder tower

    Clayton, MO 100' Sutphen ladder tower

    Eureka, MO 100' ALF stick

    Belleville, IL Granite City, IL KME 100' stick

    Galesburg, IL (a drive) 100' Alexis ladder tower (their 2nd)

    Ill be interested to see what you end up with. Our 1989 Simon Duplex ST2000 ladder tower with 34k miles is in need of replacement. I wasnt around but our department trained on your 89 before we received ours.

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