1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    103

    Default Bunker Gear Retirement / Disposal

    Does anyone have any information about bunker gear disposal to be in compliance with AFG. We received our new gear and I want to be in compliance with our old bunker gear retirement. Anyone have a form or how to document the disposal?
    Thanks

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    134

    Default

    If its still in usable condition, I hope your not trowing it away.

    If it's less than 10 years old find a department in need.

    If its more than 10 years old, send it overseas to a department in even more need.

    My department is sending our very gently used gear thats more than 10 years old over to Africa to a department that has none. I do not have the information about who is doing this handy, but can get it if you want it.

    Sorry, I know this doesn't answer your question, but I felt compelled to add it.

  3. #3
    FH Mag/.com Contributor

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Posts
    7,288

    Default

    You can keep viable PPE as backups, they don't make you destroy or get rid of it.

    And donate it here regardless of age. There are still US Departments without any gear, and many with 20-30 year old gear that would love to get into 10 year old gear for free. I'm all for helping other countries but not until all of our FDs are taken care of first.

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,954

    Default

    THANK YOU BC79er!!!

    I can't echo that enough. I just got off the phone this weekend with a
    department that has NO turnouts except some proximity suits they got
    surplus. We are working with them to put in AFG applications, but till
    then we are trying to get them some turnouts.

    We leave today or tomorrow on a trip from Missouri, through KY, WV, MD to PA, then back through NY, OH, IN, IL. This is a business jaunt, but as we
    go we have donations of airpacks, turnouts, and hose going to help departments in the Ozark Mountains.

    There are even UNPROTECTED areas yet out there, that have only the
    conservation department available to come and put out a fire. They don't
    do structures. We know of another department just now starting up to
    protect an area that has only seen a Fire department from 22 miles away
    before.

    Please, don't trash the stuff, and keep it in the USA!

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    47

    Default re-use the gear

    Some departments will remove the liners that are in worse shape sometimes than the outer shell and issue it for forestry gear. Just a thought.

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,586

    Talking

    We are in the process of finding a department in our state that could use our older airpacks that we replaced with 2007 compliant packs under 07 afg. While they are a mix of 96-2002 packs they are still usable and in good condition with low hours of usage. I'm quite sure that there is a smaller dept. here in our state that would be more than happy to receive them , and will give them a good home.

    PAY IT FORWARD should be the motto of all the dept's lucky enough to get federal funding!

    We will also do the same when we replace our 1982 brush truck that is not AFG funded, look for a dept that truly has a need for a still functioning all wheel drive mini pumper and make them a deal.

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Florida's Space Coast
    Posts
    204

    Default

    Does anyone know of anything like a "Needy Fire Department" registry?
    I know something like that would be tough to police (to avoid greed, ebayers, and such), but as long as there is no liability attached with donated gear, something is sure better than nothing....

    We come up with stuff from time to time, but don't know where it should/could go.

  8. #8
    FH Mag/.com Contributor

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Posts
    7,288

    Default

    Word of mouth usually, post it here, or email me with what you want to pass on: brianv@firegraphics.org. I have a contact list of people in areas that either need the stuff themselves or act as a gopher. Blake (LVFD) is one of them but I know a lot of bodies around the country.

    And I did have a listing at one point, but was just a simple web page setup with a list of who needed what and contact info. That way the people with the stuff don't get 4 million emails asking for stuff. Working on a better design, but with me being the only software nerd and sleeping every now and again haven't gotten there yet. Working on a Helping Our Own replacement too since that got raided.

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,954

    Default

    I can also help with contacts in needy departments.

    The only thing I can stress, is make sure that department that gets your stuff is for real. We recently had a scam mail out to all the Missouri Chiefs, and we got him slowed down, if not stopped. Call the local law enforcement to see if that department actually exists!

    It can be a sad world out there.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    SW MO
    Posts
    4,249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    I can also help with contacts in needy departments.

    The only thing I can stress, is make sure that department that gets your stuff is for real. We recently had a scam mail out to all the Missouri Chiefs, and we got him slowed down, if not stopped. Call the local law enforcement to see if that department actually exists!

    It can be a sad world out there.
    Was that the one from the soldier that was a chief? I hadn't heard anything about a scam mail yet.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Reading about NFPA1851 - 2008 this evening. Requires retirement of TO gear when 10yr from mfg date. And requires tha dispose of in a manner assuring will not be used for fire fighting, emergency operations or training.

    From Morning Pride Reference Guide.

    I'm not claiming it's smart but apparently what the "standard" says. No exemption listed for Arkansas or Nigeria. To my understanding DHS/FG mindlessly parrots NFPA standard as their grant award requirements.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Was that the one from the soldier that was a chief? I hadn't heard anything about a scam mail yet.
    No, that one from the soldier is true to my understanding.

    This was another one, from a guy near Doniphan.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lynnfield MA
    Posts
    242

    Default Gear

    We sent a bunch of gear to El Salvador. Definitely not something that meets any standard but is better than fighting fire in shorts and sandals.

  14. #14
    FH Mag/.com Contributor

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Posts
    7,288

    Default

    For buying new gear they do, as far as giving it away with the exception of vehicles you can give stuff away with no problems. Even trucks can be sold to a broker who is then responsible for making it meet standards.

    And as far as I'm concerned, with people still fighting fire in shorts & t-shirts here in the US anything is better since they're not up to current standard now. If the options are no gear or gear not up to the current NFPA, I'm with the gear choice. Standards are nice goals but most folks are having trouble putting fuel in the tanks.

    Good part about the US (minus CA) is that we're not a donor liability country. So we can give usable stuff to each other and it's the responsibility of the party receiving it if something happens while using the donated stuff. In CA if you donate and some wingnut gets hurt using what you graciously gave them then you can be sued. Hence the reason a few mil in fire equipment in the under 10 y/o range (from trucks to gear) goes to Mexico every year. They can't give it to another department in the US, but over international lines there is no liability either. I still say keep it here first and then if no one takes it send it outside.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    RES81CUE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NW ARKANSAS
    Posts
    342

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    THANK YOU BC79er!!!


    We leave today or tomorrow on a trip from Missouri, through KY, WV, MD to PA, then back through NY, OH, IN, IL. This is a business jaunt, but as we
    go we have donations of airpacks, turnouts, and hose going to help departments in the Ozark Mountains.

    Please, don't trash the stuff, and keep it in the USA!
    Not all the departments located in the Ozark Mountains are all that needy. I can assure you that the ones who can take care of there own needs also take care of the one's who can not.

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    RES81CUE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NW ARKANSAS
    Posts
    342

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    I'm not claiming it's smart but apparently what the "standard" says. No exemption listed for Arkansas or Nigeria. To my understanding DHS/FG mindlessly parrots NFPA standard as their grant award requirements.
    Yea that Arkansas statement was truely needed!

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RES81CUE View Post
    Not all the departments located in the Ozark Mountains are all that needy. I can assure you that the ones who can take care of there own needs also take care of the one's who can not.
    Please don't take that wrong. We are in the area considered to be the
    Ozarks, and many departments here need the help. There was no
    negative meant.

    I am sitting here in a motel in NY, the trailer outside has 28 positive
    pressure airpacks in it, as well as a 12 sets of turnouts, 5 inch hose,
    and a TIC, among other things.

    Now, my "Ozarks" Fire Department is all over that TIC, as well
    as the 5 inch hose. The Airpacks are ending up in departments
    in Missouri, AND Arkansas. The TOG, who knows, it depends on
    the requests that have been made so we can size properly. Everything
    will be distributed, at no charge at all of course, to those departments
    when I get back next week.

    All donated to departments in the Ozarks, by departments with
    budgets from LARGE to not much better than us!


    Insofar as NFPA and the 10 year standard, I will strive to meet
    that standard, but if it comes down to not having gear because of
    NFPA current standards because its older than 10 years, or having good
    gear that is over 10 years old, I will take that turn out gear.

  18. #18
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Palm Bay, florida
    Posts
    1

    Default

    Hello Im a 29 year old just going through emt school and looking foward to fire school.. im 5'7 with 32 inch waist.. If anybody has any used bunker gear they would sell me for a cheap price please let me know... between school prices and a family I really dont have money to buy a new set and renting is expensive.... Thanks William I live in Fl.

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    St. Stephens, Al
    Posts
    12

    Default

    We have a volunteer force in south Alabama. Our turnout gear was bought mostly in 1992. We have added some members in the last two years and some of them have no gear at all. We would gladly take old gear still in good shape. We have a grant submitted for new gear and are waiting on the 10q's. Till then, we have definite needs.

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    I've been working on TO gear project. How are you FD that are spending (or hoping to spend) 07/08 FG$ for turnout gear going to handle NFPA1851.

    NFPA1851 is new std for cleaning, inspection, repair of TO gear. A ball of snakes. In general:

    - FG requires we follow applicable NFPA std.
    - NFPA1851 says:
    After 3yr and EVERY year after that will seperate the thermal barrier and
    moisture barrier and visual check of both sides of each and a permeability
    test of the MB.
    - That means will have to:
    UPS entire garment to a service company
    Have detail cleaning of entire garment
    Inspection/test liner
    Return UPS
    - I'd call that $100 per set (minimum) For EVERY set EVERY year after 3yr old
    - After 10yr will remove from service.

    Adding a "liner inspection port" will add about $5/coat & $5/pant. But will eliminate requirement to unseam and resew (and additional cost) in order to carry out the above.

    So how the heck are the poor rural FD supposed to follow this? I don't know. My FD can't afford to come up with and extra $2k/yr for this (or function test SCBA every yr, or ladders every year, etc). But part of the deal with FG. I have no solution.

    What's your plan? Tell FG to take a hike or suck it up and come up with the $ for the inspections as cost of getting the grant Christmas "gift"?
    Last edited by neiowa; 09-02-2008 at 11:53 PM.

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    I've been working on TO gear project. How are you FD that are spending (or hoping to spend) 07/08 FG$ for turnout gear going to handle NFPA1851.

    NFPA1851 is new std for cleaning, inspection, repair of TO gear. A ball of snakes. In general:

    Adding a "liner inspection port" will add about $5/coat & $5/pant. But will eliminate requirement to unseam and resew (and additional cost) in order to carry out the above.

    So how the heck are the poor rural FD supposed to follow this? I don't know. My FD can't afford to come up with and extra $2k/yr for this (or function test SCBA every yr, or ladders every year, etc). But part of the deal with FG. I have no solution.

    What's your plan? Tell FG to take a hike or suck it up and come up with the $ for the inspections as cost of getting the grant Christmas "gift"?
    Neiowa
    Thats the whole catch 22 of accepting AFG dollars. You have to follow their rules and guidelines to a T.
    When shipping your gear off for cleaning and inspection you also essentially loose available personnel unless you have a few spare sets of TO's sitting around that meet compliance, and will fit the majority of your members.
    Part of the conundrum of accepting is how to fund the additional testing and maintenance of your grant supplied equipment. We have done additional fundraising to help pay for these added cost.
    We do semi annual service and air quality testing for our 2003 AFG provided Cascade compressor . Cost : an extra $750 .oo year but without it we had a half hour trip each way to get bottles filled.
    We had to seek out funding for a hose tester to do annual hose testing after getting gigged by our state risk insurer. But she handed us an app for a state grant program that funded 75% of the cost of the unit through the risk management insurer.

    I guess the other side of the coin is to go back to where we have been in the past and just keep plodding along with hand me downs and substandard equipment.

  22. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    The "spare sets" better be made to measure for the FF to whom issued. And less than 10yr old.

    At some point the "piling on" by NFPA with new rules is going to have butt heads with the those running FG. If going to rigidly force the enless pile of NFPA standards without a regular flow of maintenance/operations funding from the feds the pool of FG apps has to drop. The FD that most urgently need new gear/equipment a not going to be able absorb the additional cost of the NFPA.

    Rural FD with 20 FF has a annual budget increase of $2000 for TO gear inspection, $600 for annual function test on 12 SCBA, $500 for annual ladder test, driver physicals, etc etc etc. Now operating on $10000/yr. Is not , can not work. Glib "part of the deal" is not an answer. Either going to drive FD out of the FG program, force them to close, or will just ignore NFPA.

  23. #23
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ktb9780's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Auburndale, FL
    Posts
    6,078

    Default

    Good questions; how many of you are members of NFPA and expressing those concerns to them? I will bring that up in my committees that I belong to but I am but one voice, when a whole chorus needs to be singing to them.
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

  24. #24
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Florida's Space Coast
    Posts
    204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    Good questions; how many of you are members of NFPA and expressing those concerns to them? I will bring that up in my committees that I belong to but I am but one voice, when a whole chorus needs to be singing to them.
    At the risk of sounding glib... we can't afford an NFPA membership. Maybe if that $150 gave you free access to all the publications on line, or some other tangible benefit, but for a lousy 10% off of the list price for publications, etc, well, I'm not sure it's worth it.

    I've learned much more through forums like this one, then during the time when we were a member.

  25. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ktb9780's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Auburndale, FL
    Posts
    6,078

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy2802 View Post
    At the risk of sounding glib... we can't afford an NFPA membership. Maybe if that $150 gave you free access to all the publications on line, or some other tangible benefit, but for a lousy 10% off of the list price for publications, etc, well, I'm not sure it's worth it.

    I've learned much more through forums like this one, then during the time when we were a member.
    Ouch touche dude! I forgot my membership is a business expense. This also begs the question of how did we let a "commercial for-profit company" gain control of the standards.
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. What do you carry on/in your turnout gear/bunker gear?
    By Station7Cadet in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 87
    Last Post: 03-21-2014, 10:44 AM
  2. Bunker Gear
    By cvfd605 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-30-2007, 09:20 AM
  3. Bunker Gear?
    By lazybeach21 in forum Florida
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-20-2006, 05:05 PM
  4. Bunker gear!
    By lazybeach21 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-28-2006, 09:18 PM
  5. Bunker Gear
    By michael101184 in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-08-2000, 01:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register