1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    42

    Cool New Pump Test Pit

    After two years of waiting, our pump test pit is finally done.

    We performed our first test on an E-1 Tower with a 2000 gpm pump. We ran thru the complete annual test without a hitch. Not even a fitting leak (thanks Steve). I can't wait to get two 1500 pumper in so we can try for 3000 gpm. Its hard to believe that not to long ago a 1500 gpm apparatus was considered a big pump. JR
    Attached Images Attached Images     

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    Nice set up JR, you must have one hell of a crew working for you!
    ______________________________ __________________
    If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
    ______________________________ __________________
    A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

    IACOJ Fire Boat 1

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    129

    Talking

    Nice set up. You may want to consider the pitotless nozzle mfg by hose monster. See link below.

    http://www.hosemonster.com/pitotless.html

    They have no pitot pick up tube to be hit by a rock and work real nice. They come up to 2" and can flow 1400 gpm in the 2" model. Price, about $500. We just got them in to evaluate and are very impressed with how easy they are to set up and work with.

    You can connect a hose to them and read your /pitot/gpm at the pump panel and make this a 1 man test! Not to mention you are far away from the hazard if something breaks.

    We use them to test fire pumps for sprinkler and standpipe systems.
    Last edited by InsuranceLCRep; 08-14-2008 at 07:43 PM.
    Fire Sprinklers Save Firefighters’ Lives Too!

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Greensboro, NC USA
    Posts
    1,312

    Default

    Nice set up. It's good to see the availability of dual intakes, which is required for most anything above 1,500.

    And a side note, if you ever have a 1,500 GPM truck fail the pumping portion of the service test (and admin is too stingy to fix the problem), then try using two intakes, and lower the lift as much as you can.

    Or, test it from a pressurized hydrant. NFPA 1911 has an allowance for that.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Very nice setup. You wouldn't be willing to share the specs or plans would you? I'm trying to convince the AHJ that we need a pit. For years they've used an old rock quarry nearby. It works OK but it's a real hassel to get down there and setup. Besides, being on the edge (literally) of a 200' drop off makes me a little nervous.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post

    And a side note, if you ever have a 1,500 GPM truck fail the pumping portion of the service test (and admin is too stingy to fix the problem), then try using two intakes, and lower the lift as much as you can.

    .
    Just look at that setup. Do you imagine they have a problem with a stingy administration?

    Very nice, beats having to go down to the boat launch or blocking a lane on a bridge, which is what we usually have to do
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    438

    Default Not a FD set up

    Quote Originally Posted by dmleblanc View Post
    Just look at that setup. Do you imagine they have a problem with a stingy administration?

    Very nice, beats having to go down to the boat launch or blocking a lane on a bridge, which is what we usually have to do
    That nice pump test set up is not a fire department but an apparatus dealer in Mass. Very nice set up no matter whose it is.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Greensboro, NC USA
    Posts
    1,312

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dmleblanc View Post
    Just look at that setup. Do you imagine they have a problem with a stingy administration?
    Well, my comment was aimed at everyone in the room.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tomwnh View Post
    That nice pump test set up is not a fire department but an apparatus dealer in Mass. Very nice set up no matter whose it is.
    OK, my bad...I thought it belonged to a fire department.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaEVT View Post
    Very nice setup. You wouldn't be willing to share the specs or plans would you? I'm trying to convince the AHJ that we need a pit. For years they've used an old rock quarry nearby. It works OK but it's a real hassel to get down there and setup. Besides, being on the edge (literally) of a 200' drop off makes me a little nervous.
    I'd be happy to share the information. Let me know what you need. Expect to spend between $50 and 100 thousand to build one. There are alot of variables that can effect the cost. We had issues with a high ground water table and had to install concrete ballast so the tank wouldnt pop out of the ground if it was emptied.

    Tomwnh, The pit is actually located in Maine and is for a dealership. I didnt mention it because I didnt want the post to appear to be an advertisment. We were just proud of what we accomplished and I wanted to share it with people that may be interested.

    The pitotless nozzle looks interesting. We normally use a 2-1/2" tip to get 1500 gpm. I'll give them a call to get more info.

    Thanks for all the feedback. John
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    630

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tomwnh View Post
    That nice pump test set up is not a fire department but an apparatus dealer in Mass. Very nice set up no matter whose it is.
    I don't know about other third party test companies but, UL would not certify a test with the manifold setup as shown. That said, it looks like a fantastic setup of re-certifications and annuals! I see that someone said is it actually at a dealer's shop so it is perfect for the application.

    Also, someone mentioned the "pitot-less" nozzle that could flow up to 1400 GPM. That would require a reading of about 150 PSI at the tip so, it would be impossible to test a 1500 GPM pump at 150 PSI, let alone a 1750 or 2000 as shown in the picture. It would work for the 200 and 250 tests for some pumps but then you would be switching from one test rig to another. Hardly worth the work for a one hour total test.

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    I don't know about other third party test companies but, UL would not certify a test with the manifold setup as shown.
    Could you explain why? It looks like it would meet NFPA requirements.
    ______________________________ __________________
    If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
    ______________________________ __________________
    A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

    IACOJ Fire Boat 1

  13. #13
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    129

    Default

    [QUOTE=
    Also, someone mentioned the "pitot-less" nozzle that could flow up to 1400 GPM. That would require a reading of about 150 PSI at the tip so, it would be impossible to test a 1500 GPM pump at 150 PSI, let alone a 1750 or 2000 as shown in the picture. It would work for the 200 and 250 tests for some pumps but then you would be switching from one test rig to another. Hardly worth the work for a one hour total test.[/QUOTE]

    As per the manufacture cut sheet of the pitot less nozzle a pressure of 83 psi will give deliver 1502 gpm.

    Go to the web site

    http://www.hosemonster.com

    Then click on Literature Rack You will need to register to down load the info.

    Note I do not sell or make any $$ on this product, this is just FYI.
    Fire Sprinklers Save Firefighters’ Lives Too!

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    292

    Default

    nice setup. we need to get a setup capable of two intakes.

    a couple photos of our setup the pit is 20' long 8' wide and 12' deep. its about 15,000 gallons.




  15. #15
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    42

    Default

    k1500chevy97, Nice set up. We considered a stacked return design but went with the side by side for ease of pitot changes. Do you leave a 2-1-/2 in the lower nozzle and change out the upper for flows less than 1500? We also have a pit limited to a single lift point and cheat a little by using a 6" and also a 3" suction through the aux intake.

    firepundit, As "At the Helm" asked why wont UL certify from this setup. The pit is based on the recomendations from the Hale web site.

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    630

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InsuranceLCRep View Post
    As per the manufacture cut sheet of the pitot less nozzle a pressure of 83 psi will give deliver 1502 gpm.

    Go to the web site

    http://www.hosemonster.com

    Then click on Literature Rack You will need to register to down load the info.

    Note I do not sell or make any $$ on this product, this is just FYI.
    Didn't go to the literature section. This is the only web site I use that requires registration. I did note that the largest size available is a 2" and I checked flow charts to see what the flow is through 2" tips. The flow chart in the back of the Akron catalog shows a 2" nozzle flowing 1455 GPM at 150 PSI. The Elkhart catalog flow chart shows 1456. So, how can they squeeze 1502 out of a 2" orifice at 83 PSI?

    What am I missing here? I have always been under the impression that flow was directly related to velocity, pressure, and orifice size?

  17. #17
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    630

    Default

    Sorry for the delay but I haven't checked in lately.

    I don't know if they are still as touchy but in the past (over 10 years ago) they were very picky about the manifold and nozzle assemblies. I am not sure of the reasons but I do know of one instance where they refused to use a setup almost exactly like the one shown at a builder's facility. There was a lot of arguing back and forth but eventually the builder changed the setup and UL agreed to use it. I don't know what modifications were made or anything since I was just passing through the place from time to time and only caught bits and pieces of the situation.

  18. #18
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    East Earl, Pa
    Posts
    88

    Default

    JRE

    What is the size of the tank?

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FireLineEquip View Post
    JRE

    What is the size of the tank?
    The total volume is 25,000 gallons. The tank was partitioned in the center which we used as a baffle to defuse aeration to the intake side. The recomendation for the tank volume is to have the test tank be ten times the gpm capacity of the largest pump you wish to test.

    The tank is made of steel so we also install some zinc anode plates that we got from a local marine store. Next year we plan to have the tank sandblasted internally and coated with epoxy.

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pa Wilds
    Posts
    590

    Talking 1507 GPM at 80 psi

    firepundit:
    The nozzle size must be 2 3/8" diameter to flow the specified volume at 80 psi. Flow = 29.87 * d * d * sq rt of nozzle pressure.

    Problems with certain set-ups is usually turbulance due to directional changes (bends) within 7 to 10 diameters of the orfice. A stream shaper can help, but non-uniform flows across the opening can't be accounted for by a single point pitot pick-up device.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Strainer & pump test?
    By AC1503 in forum The Engineer
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 10-24-2005, 03:48 PM
  2. Pump Test Pit Design
    By WFire431 in forum The Engineer
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-30-2004, 10:12 PM
  3. Pump Test spreadsheet
    By chiefwaterloofd in forum The Engineer
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-17-2004, 06:42 AM
  4. Pump Service Test
    By jsdobson in forum The Engineer
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-03-2003, 10:18 PM
  5. Pump Test Forms
    By ENG 6511 in forum The Engineer
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-10-2001, 11:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register