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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Yep its all about you and your wishes...we are here to cater to your dreams and desires. It is children like you who are the problem in todays job (and in this country in general)

    Few if any of you work or live here...I for one do and I don't want some square-rooting, manipulative POS potecting my family while I'm away on duty. Nor do I want to work with one and place my life in their hands.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you are the best of the best you have nothing to fear from the OC...if you are looking to take the backdoor it because you don't believe you will measure up compared to everyone else.

    I didn't have residency when I applied....I could have phonied it like some did and get hired many years eariler...but I and many others have integrity and have respect for the civil service system. We did what we had to do and that was pass a competitive exam with almost perfect scores.

    As for all you persons who are so accepting of people that look to work the system and take short cuts in life....Please post your Depts Human resource's phone numbers so these "first rate" canidates can apply at your F*ck shop. Clearly you don't mind trusting your lives with these indiviuals of questionable charater, dependablity and integrity.

    FTM-PTB

    PS-As for all the reasons on why the city has the "backdoor" in place...I've never seen such wide-eyed naivete.

    PLZ.....I'm studying hard to be a great EMT maybe a future paramedic....isn't that required for the FF position...so why I'm a risk to you and your brothers safety...?

    I want to be a FF...I'm not lying or doing anything decieving to get the position...is it illegal...?...is it prohibited… NO...so why the sour grapes?...

    why do you think I will be a horrible FF because I opted to to study my butt off and pass a EMT course with the FDNY that I will have to pass regardless in the future?

    if its so bad and dishonorable and made terrible FF's why they continue to have promotional exams?...allowing more EMT's to become firefighters?.....come on....now i'm not worthy of being a firefighter cuz I chose to become an EMT first....

    nonsense....


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropheticPoet83 View Post
    if its so bad and dishonorable and made terrible FF's why they continue to have promotional exams?...allowing more EMT's to become firefighters?.....come on....now i'm not worthy of being a firefighter cuz I chose to become an EMT first....

    nonsense....
    I don't usually comment on these threads because I'm not on the job in NYC, but I really have to agree with Fred and the other FDNY members on here. The ability to transfer from EMS to fire is political, and that's it.

    Your last post shows your ignorance to the situation and why sometimes the right thing to do isn't always the easy thing to do.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropheticPoet83 View Post
    PLZ.....I'm studying hard to be a great EMT maybe a future paramedic....isn't that required for the FF position...so why I'm a risk to you and your brothers safety...?Not on our job.

    I want to be a FF...I'm not lying or doing anything decieving to get the position...is it illegal...?...is it prohibited… NO...so why the sour grapes?...Its hardly sour grapes. Just because its perfectly legal doesnt make it right. How would you feel if someone got a 70 on the written exam, failed 1, possibly even 2 events on the physical, and got hired possibly years before someone who aced both exams? I know how I felt, because it happened to me.

    why do you think I will be a horrible FF because I opted to to study my butt off and pass a EMT course with the FDNY that I will have to pass regardless in the future??One, no you dont. Shame to be so misinformed. Second, Because in the experience of the members who are affected by this on a daily basis, a higher percentage of squarerooters came from EMS. This isnt a stereotype, this isnt some talking point of some political appointee, this is real life experience of people who are in the firehouse.

    if its so bad and dishonorable and made terrible FF's why they continue to have promotional exams?...allowing more EMT's to become firefighters?.....come on....now i'm not worthy of being a firefighter cuz I chose to become an EMT first.... Because the firemen dont get to make this decision. The promotional exams exist for political and social reasons, not because its in the same career path. (which again, it isnt.)

    nonsense....
    First, if you are going to argue about something, at least learn what you are talking about. We are not EMTs, we are not Paramedics. The buses are separate from the Fire side. We do first responder EMS only.

    Did you bother to read anybody's posts?

    There are reasons why the EMT promotional was created. It has nothing to do with being a better fireman (the two jobs do not go hand in hand, and being a good EMT has absolutely nothing to do with being a good fireman), and if you and others are too naive to understand the real reasons, then tough sh*t.


    I dont get something. According to some here, if you "put up with EMS", you should be entitled to the promotional exam. What makes you any more entitled? And why are you willing to degrade the level of service that the EMTs and Paramedics provide? NYC paramedics are some of the best, most knowledgable, and experienced in the world, and its a shame that someone would abuse the system just to get ahead.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropheticPoet83 View Post
    PLZ.....I'm studying hard to be a great EMT maybe a future paramedic....isn't that required for the FF position...so why I'm a risk to you and your brothers safety...?

    I want to be a FF...I'm not lying or doing anything decieving to get the position...is it illegal...?...is it prohibited… NO...so why the sour grapes?...

    why do you think I will be a horrible FF because I opted to to study my butt off and pass a EMT course with the FDNY that I will have to pass regardless in the future?

    if its so bad and dishonorable and made terrible FF's why they continue to have promotional exams?...allowing more EMT's to become firefighters?.....come on....now i'm not worthy of being a firefighter cuz I chose to become an EMT first....

    nonsense....
    As you've already been told, FDNY Firemen are not certified to any level of EMS. They are certified first responders trained on AED's which is the same as cops and lifeguards. Dual role fire departments are very very prominent these days but the FDNY hasn't been hit yet. Dual role came about because small city/suburban FD's needed "more work" to satisfy those in office so they wouldn't cut funding, staffing, and/or pay.

    If you want to be a dual role FF/PM thats awesome, nothing wrong with that. But FDNY isn't your place to do that. There are a lot of busy departments out there that are dual role. Maybe you could look into that?

    As for the backdoor. The guys in NYC are telling you it's not good, bad for your career, wrong etc. But you are listening to outsiders simply because it is what you want to hear. Listen to the guys you are trying to become bro.

    If you like EMS, become and EMT and maybe go paramedic. When you get certified, get on with FDNY EMS as a civil service employee and move into the city. When the next open exam comes up you'll have the 5 extra points for residency. Study as hard as you did for EMT class on the written test and youll score high enough to be in one of the earlier classes. Then when you get on open competitive, youll already have a pension established with the city (at least last time I checked). And then you can volunteer the necessary hours to keep your certs somewhere during your proby year (can't have a second job first year on). When your year is up, EMS at a hospital or private service can be your second job and you wont have to hustle for odd jobs. Makes sense and makes everyone happy right?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarnyTheKid View Post
    If it was such a bad thing the FDNY wouldn't have this option available
    Are you really this naive?
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLA1786 View Post
    If you like EMS, become and EMT and maybe go paramedic. When you get certified, get on with FDNY EMS as a civil service employee and move into the city. When the next open exam comes up you'll have the 5 extra points for residency. Study as hard as you did for EMT class on the written test and youll score high enough to be in one of the earlier classes. Then when you get on open competitive, youll already have a pension established with the city (at least last time I checked). And then you can volunteer the necessary hours to keep your certs somewhere during your proby year (can't have a second job first year on). When your year is up, EMS at a hospital or private service can be your second job and you wont have to hustle for odd jobs. Makes sense and makes everyone happy right?

    thanks man...what I plan on doing...maybe its politics...but I bust my butt in everything I do....

    I live in NYC...I've lived here all my life....I just think labeling a guy that came from EMT to FF as a bad firefighter or lazy is ridiculous because he took the backdoor option.....

    anyway GOOD LUCK to everyone....

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLA1786 View Post
    When you get certified, get on with FDNY EMS as a civil service employee and move into the city. When the next open exam comes up you'll have the 5 extra points for residency.
    Amazingly EMS does not have a residency requirement like FD side does.

    Do I need to be a New York City resident to work as a Paramedic or EMT with the FDNY?
    Answer: No, Paramedics and EMTs do not have a residency requirement.

    Do you have to be a New York City resident to be a NYC Firefighter?
    Answer: No. However, you must live in Westchester, Rockland, Orange, Nassau or Suffolk County if you do not reside in the five boroughs of New York City.
    Last edited by ffbam24; 08-17-2008 at 01:36 PM.

  8. #28
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    Do whatever it takes to get the job you want. Accross the country there are people doing whatever it takes to get the job. If you were in California or most cities west of the mississippi you would not be considered unless you have your EMT, FF1 and experience in a Fire or EMS system. It all comes down to the interview in almost any other department in the country. The civil service system is out dated in most palces but seems to work in the FDNY.

    It shouldn't matter if you get on FDNY as a banker, plumber, janator, farmer or a former FDNY EMT if the academy serves a purpose you will not see the firehouse if you cant cut it. The only argument these FDNY FFs have is that the instructors are pushing through sub-par rookies. You can come in any door that is available but it should be understood that everyone has to perform in the academy and if you cant, you should be cut.

    I would rather have a candidate who has some experience working in my EMS system and in my city and in a division of my department then some candidate that just took the test and has no f'in clue what the fire service is about but took some BS written test and scored well enough to get an offer. Further I would rater have a candidate that would do anything to be a part of my crew.

    Go the EMS way and dont look back. Keep your goal in mind but understand even through EMS it can take up to 3 years to get in the academy. Do not let these guys get between you and your dream job just because they didn't get in the same way. Do whatever it takes to get the career in the best department in the world or else you will some day regret it. Bases on the written (6019) test you can study all you want to do your best but it is a crap shoot if you do well enough on it. Dont take the chance.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by residents View Post
    The only argument these FDNY FFs have is that the instructors are pushing through sub-par rookies.
    Possibly the most uninformed sentence I've read in the last 20 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropheticPoet83 View Post
    PLZ.....I'm studying hard to be a great EMT maybe a future paramedic....isn't that required for the FF position...so why I'm a risk to you and your brothers safety...?
    What does PLZ mean? Are you functionally illiterate? I understand spelling errors but....?

    If you want to be a great EMT or Paramedic..please join the FDNY EMS to be a great EMT or paramedic...lord knows they need some more.(If you were a relative of mine I would tell you to apply anywhere in the USA before you apply to FDNY EMS as the pay and job sucks) But in any case don't waste their time by using EMS as a Halfway house...you could do much better taking the OC and working in the private sector getting perhaps Journeyman status in another union(this will help you in many ways down the road.)

    I suppose from reading your comments, you've never applied to the FDNY or even bothered to exert the least amount of effort to find out that we are CFR-D NOT EMT's and NOT Medics.

    If you want to be on a fire department as a fireman that allows you to explore, expand and reward the many aspects of nursing and EMS...Don't waste your time and don't come here...we don't give two sh*ts.

    I want to be a FF...I'm not lying or doing anything decieving to get the position...is it illegal...?...is it prohibited… NO...so why the sour grapes?...
    Its not sour grapes son, it you are doing something manipulative to get on the job ahead of others, quite possibly, using history as a guide, with much lower scores than that of those on the Open competitive. You clearly are very slow and very naive not to see or understand why the "promotional"
    is in place.

    I've done the research on the drop outs in a class with promotionals and a class without....want to take a guess at which one is a complete waste of my tax dollars? If you are into the environment, Do you know how many forests they had to level to print the Dept Orders with additional pages of drop-outs heading back from whence they came?

    why do you think I will be a horrible FF because I opted to to study my butt off and pass a EMT course with the FDNY that I will have to pass regardless in the future?
    Once again perhaps you should spend less time sticking your foot in your mouth and more time reading the notice of examination. YOU WILL NEVER HAVE TO PASS THE EMT EXAM AS A NYC FIREMAN.

    if its so bad and dishonorable and made terrible FF's why they continue to have promotional exams?...allowing more EMT's to become firefighters?.....come on....now i'm not worthy of being a firefighter cuz I chose to become an EMT first....
    Do we really need to hold your hand through this entire journey? Are you 12 Years old?

    nonsense....
    The only nonsense I can see is a barely educated, ignorant dope who has some of the worst communication skills ever seen on these forums...spelling phoneticly???, do your parents know you are playing on the internet unsupervised?

    Wake up kid you have a lot to learn in life.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 08-17-2008 at 11:19 PM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    What does PLZ mean? Are you functionally illiterate? I understand spelling errors but....?

    If you want to be a great EMT or Paramedic..please join the FDNY EMS to be a great EMT or paramedic...lord knows they need some more.(If you were a relative of mine I would tell you to apply anywhere in the USA before you apply to FDNY EMS as the pay and job sucks) But in any case don't waste their time by using EMS as a Halfway house...you could do much better taking the OC and working in the private sector getting perhaps Journeyman status in another union(this will help you in many ways down the road.)

    I suppose from reading your comments, you've never applied to the FDNY or even bothered to exert the least amount of effort to find out that we are CFR-D NOT EMT's and NOT Medics.

    If you want to be on a fire department as a fireman that allows you to explore, expand and reward the many aspects of nursing and EMS...Don't waste your time and don't come here...we don't give two sh*ts.



    Its not sour grapes son, it you are doing something manipulative to get on the job ahead of others, quite possibly, using history as a guide, with much lower scores than that of those on the Open competitive. You clearly are very slow and very naive not to see or understand why the "promotional"
    is in place.

    I've done the research on the drop outs in a class with promotionals and a class without....want to take a guess at which one is a complete waste of my tax dollars? If you are into the environment, Do you know how many forests they had to level to print the Dept Orders with additional pages of drop-outs heading back from whence they came?



    Once again perhaps you should spend less time sticking your foot in your mouth and more time reading the notice of examination. YOU WILL NEVER HAVE TO PASS THE EMT EXAM AS A NYC FIREMAN.



    Do we really need to hold your hand through this entire journey? Are you 12 Years old?


    The only nonsense I can see is a barely educated, ignorant dope who has some of the worst communication skills ever seen on these forums...spelling phoneticly???, do your parents know you are playing on the internet unsupervised?

    Wake up kid you have a lot to learn in life.

    FTM-PTB
    .............................. ...................
    Last edited by PropheticPoet83; 08-18-2008 at 09:42 AM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropheticPoet83 View Post
    do you know me...NO...so PLZ (please) calm down and step off your soapbox....
    PLZ stop using PLZ, you sound like a 12 year old girl. PLZ? THX.

    You got your answer from the FDNY guys that are on the job and deal with the EMS backdoor. Don't whine because you don't like what you heard. Heck, a little searching in this forum and you could have avoided getting your feelings hurt.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by edge1317 View Post
    PLZ stop using PLZ, you sound like a 12 year old girl. PLZ? THX.

    You got your answer from the FDNY guys that are on the job and deal with the EMS backdoor. Don't whine because you don't like what you heard. Heck, a little searching in this forum and you could have avoided getting your feelings hurt.
    no one is complaining...i was wrong and I can accept that...and the FDNY guys who are on the job explained it to me....I shut up and listened....some departments do things differently....
    Last edited by PropheticPoet83; 08-18-2008 at 03:15 AM.

  14. #34
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    don't you have to be in EMS for 2 years before you can take the promotional? If that's the case, if your willing to deal with the FDNY EMS bullsh*t for 2 years AND make it through the academy then i think you could turn out to be an ok FF. I'm not a fan of the backdoor route either as i'm on the open competitive list but dealing with EMS bullcrap for 2 years to get on the job is a sacrifice i'm not willing to make. Hell i'll wait 8 years before i take the EMS job. I hear that job is one of the worst in the city. You get paid less than sanitation and you deal with a ton of BS.
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    My original inquiry started because I did not take the last OC exam, and it looks like the next one wouldn't be until 2011. I keep hearing "you want the job, go get it". So wouldn't taking a route that would help me get there be better than sitting on my thumbs from now until 2011? I didn't bring this up because I wanted to see how I could get a 70 on the written, finish the CPAT in 10:19, run the 1.5 in 11:59 and still make it onto the job. Really my question was is busting my a55 as an EMT, putting my time in there worse than staying at my desk job and waiting for the next OC exam? I wasn't trying to start World War III here. Maybe some people have used it as a "backdoor", but if a guy can hang with you does it matter where he came from?

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    hopeful not to get too personal but why didnt you take the last test in 07

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike13310 View Post
    hopeful not to get too personal but why didnt you take the last test in 07
    Mike, no problem. I was a stupid "kid" (not that I'm so old and wise now), but, I had just graduated from college, was about $25k in debt because of that, I figured I owed it to myself to at least try to put my degree to good use. I did that, and it wasn't for me. Yeah, maybe I could have took the last exam as a fall back anyway, but I didn't want to half *** my effort, and despite some peoples feelings that this is a "backdoor" move, I wouldn't half *** this either.

  18. #38
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    I am new on here but, I have a question?

    If you are new to the area and you don't have a FF job then why is it so bad to go the EMS route untill you can get a job within the fire department. It seems NY and NJ is very hard to get a job because of residency requirements and civil service exams. I can see that some Sh** bags are beating the system but I don't think it's fair to say that all people who do that would not be a good brother and bust their A** to protect you and your family.

    No disrespect to anyone but, I just don't understand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfdtruck1medic View Post
    I am new on here but, I have a question?

    If you are new to the area and you don't have a FF job then why is it so bad to go the EMS route untill you can get a job within the fire department. It seems NY and NJ is very hard to get a job because of residency requirements and civil service exams. I can see that some Sh** bags are beating the system but I don't think it's fair to say that all people who do that would not be a good brother and bust their A** to protect you and your family.

    No disrespect to anyone but, I just don't understand?
    sfdtruck, from what I've read it looks like a few guys have gotten through the process quicker, with worse test results than guys who took the open competitive exam and scored better. In my opinion if you were doing this to avoid waiting 6 years, and to get some experience in the FDNY beforehand, rather than trying to find an "easier" way in, it's not bas bad. That's just my opinion though, and keep in mind I'm not on with FDNY so while I think it's not as bad, apparently that's not the popular opinion.

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but these EMT's who backdoor their way into the job still have to go to the Rock, and graduate before they are put on the line. Therefore they are the same as every other firefighter on the job, no? Because if they weren't qualified, then the instructors at the Rock wouldn't have passed them, right? So how are these firefighters different than anyone else? They didn't do anything wrong. Taking the open competitive exam is one option to getting appointed, taking the promotional from EMT or Cop to FF is another. You may not like the politics of the system, but don't take it out on someone who uses an option that is available to anyone. I am not saying that I agree with the system, but it's there, and if someone uses it, who am I or anyone else to blame him/her for using it. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

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