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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDNY73 View Post
    Totally agree! I plan to do the EMS promotional as well after college! If someone (like I will be doing) is willing to put up with being crapped on by the rest of the department and it citizens of NYC for 1-3 years then he should be rewarded for it, and they are rewarded = get on FDNY in about 6 months, not 4 years! Also, I talked with some FDNY Firefighters and they say that it shows more determination. And plus, you have EMS experience so if something ever goes wrong on the job, your the guy. You learn the FDNY and you also learn NYC!
    Let me guess these "firefighters" you spoke too weren't cowards hiding in the recruitment unit were they?

    Determination? I'd say you are determined not to compare yourself to others in the OC, you are determined to take the easy route.

    You want some functional illiterate who can barely pass the exam, barely pass a BS physical and hide behind his (or her) protected status throughout the accademy to get a job protecting your family? I don't.

    Once again all of this is a poor reflection on the kids looking to square root their way onto the job...the best men out there have nothing to fear from the OC. The only reason to join EMS and use it as a stepping stone is because you are a lazy POS who is looking for the easy way to success and likely it is a relflection of your lack of drive to do anything remotely strenuous in terms of a job...because you are taking a job that barely keeps you off the welfare rolls....and has some of the lowest standards around for employment. EMS requires a warm body...thats about it. (not taking anything away from the handful of EMTs and Medics who actually care about their work and aren't hiding in 9MT, FT or fumbling through the field, but there is an overwhelming amount of dead weight, no pun intended in EMS) If this low paid sh*t job (EMS) is all you can get or aspire too while waiting to get on the FDNY...then this alone speaks volumes about you and your work ethic.

    If you are looking for a long term career in EMS and can't get hired by the private hospitals and/or look to a future career in a related nursing/medical field and have no other options....then yes FDNY ems is your foot in the door. You will get the experience and see how not to run an EMS service first hand.

    If you want to join FDNY EMS and waste their time just so you can get a short cut and easy pass to the front of the line in front of men who worked their ***** off (and probably passed with a higher score than you in many cases)...Just because you are a coward not willing to compare yourselves....well then go elsewhere you aren't the type of person we want.

    The promotion was created for one thing and one thing only...to allow unfit women and minorities a fast track around competitive hiring standards. (in effect it allows all persons regardless of race or gender who are unfit to essentially get 100 and 100 on the exams but that is nothing more than an unintended conseqence to the race baiters)

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 04-19-2009 at 03:55 PM.


  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19FDNY77 View Post
    yes i AM on this job thank you!
    I don't know what company you work in and I'm not sure I'd let anyone know, especially if this is the prevalent attitude in your shop. There is alot of history over many years on civil service that you clearly don't have a fair grasp of. Perhaps you should consider learning more about our job, our union and the politics of what you advocate on here before stating such absurdities.

    Your spouse is on this job? More on the side as an EMT? Last I checked I made more than a deputy Chief in EMS. Not much of what you claim is adding up.

    PS-This job doesn't "require EMT's" so I am a little suspect of your claims and it doesnt' matter if you are a medical doctor outside of this job...you are only allowed to perform to CFR-D standards...so in the interest of you, you family, the brothers on your supposed company and the officer along with all of the legal liability you are all incurring I hope you aren't doing anything different than what we are legally allowed to do.

    Backdoor is a black mark on ones record...always has been always will be regardless of what no-time self-interested johnnys think.

    FTM-PTB

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    Default chip on your shoulder

    FFRED you seem to have a chip on your shoulder..I am getting my EMT as its required for departments on the west coast, and I bet that in ten years FDNY will require it as well. Its just common sense. If you arrived on scene to a MVA all you could do would be to hold their hand, you couldn't even begin to diagnose whats wrong or know what path to take to help. Having EMT or higher trained FF's makes for a better dept. Your first on scene, first to help, why not be first to actually start helping them instead of waiting for EMS.

    BTW I work as a contractor and stay fit so you wouldn't be able to label me as one of those pu$$y EMS workers, the CPAT took 7:35. Dont know what that is? look it up. I think a lot of the anger you feel towards these EMT's is based in the fact that its a change, and its rocking your boat a little.

    I understand the history, the way its always been. There's a lot to be said for FDNY, all of us look up to that dept. But we all rode horses forever too, and when the car came out we started driving them and left the horses at the stable.

    que the lashings, I can take it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hammerhome View Post

    BTW I work as a contractor and stay fit so you wouldn't be able to label me as one of those pu$$y EMS workers, the CPAT took 7:35. Dont know what that is? look it up.

    The CPAT is a joke compared to FST at the rock. dont know what it is look it up. The ems guys who could barely complete FST are just proof that FFFRED is correct and you know nothing of what he is talking about

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    and thats a shame, they should be held to the same standard. I wouldn't have a problem with it, so you can't generalize all ems guys. I dont believe in setting separate bars, everyone should have to pass the same level. Take that part of it up with the academy.

    I know that the training I am putting in personally would be enough for any academy, and that should be how everyone approaches it.

    Im addressing the statement that EMT's are somehow not as good as first responder FF's, its like saying well Im an engineer with a bachelors degree and I know more about engineering than that dude over there with his masters. If you take FFFRED as a FF, and FFFRED as an EMT firefighter, FFFRED with the EMT will be a better firefighter, as long as becoming a EMT didn't somehow automatically make him a pu$$y too.

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    a lot of you dont seem to get it. This has nothing to do with making better firefighters for the FDNY, its about people who cant compete with all us others on the OC exam, or are selfish and cut in line. I took 6019 and with no res points or vet i scored in hiring range, or at least was, i also have my emt but ill never join FDNY ems and cheat out every other guy who worked their *** off to get on, like myself. And if I dont make it tough for me there are many other great depts out there.

  7. #67
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    Y'know there really aren't many differences in what can and cannot be done between the two certifications.
    Some protocols but that's it.
    -Trust me, as CFR's we don't just "hold someone's hand" when we come up on an MVC.
    -Even as an EMT, you do not "diagnose". EMT is not spelled "MD".

    CPAT is a joke. Look it up.
    You can take your 7:35 and....

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    CPAT is too easy I agree, they shouldn't give you 10:20 to complete it, more like 9min would be harder. Unfortunately thats what many depts use to get you past the first physical test. Being the joke that it is though, most people can't pull a 7:35. Im training for the academy, and future stairclimb competitions. The CPAT is just part of the process.

    On the differences between CFR's and EMT's...here's two links to wiki that might help you clear up some misunderstanding

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certified_first_responder

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergen...cal_technician

    "emt's are trained to assess a patients condition"

    Sorry but there is a huge difference, we operate under medical direction from the state medical director, and EMT's are the reason people make it to the hospital.

    forty to sixty hours of training versus 110+ hours. I know my program is 130hrs, so anywhere from double to triple the training.

    hh

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammerhome View Post
    FFRED you seem to have a chip on your shoulder..I am getting my EMT as its required for departments on the west coast, and I bet that in ten years FDNY will require it as well. Its just common sense. If you arrived on scene to a MVA all you could do would be to hold their hand, you couldn't even begin to diagnose whats wrong or know what path to take to help. Having EMT or higher trained FF's makes for a better dept. Your first on scene, first to help, why not be first to actually start helping them instead of waiting for EMS.

    BTW I work as a contractor and stay fit so you wouldn't be able to label me as one of those pu$$y EMS workers, the CPAT took 7:35. Dont know what that is? look it up. I think a lot of the anger you feel towards these EMT's is based in the fact that its a change, and its rocking your boat a little.

    I understand the history, the way its always been. There's a lot to be said for FDNY, all of us look up to that dept. But we all rode horses forever too, and when the car came out we started driving them and left the horses at the stable.

    que the lashings, I can take it.
    This thread is about the FDNY, EMT promtionals and the associated BS. It isn't about the west coast.

    Just so we are clear I was a fireman for the better part of a decade in other depts before finally achiving my appointment to the FDNY and I was an EMT. I know what it is and what it isn't and I think you are inflating the importance of limited skills brought by a NYC EMT as compared to a NYC CFR-D. There is a difference but it isn't material to the discussion of civil service standards, circumvention of those former standards and the attempted and continued regression into a jobs program for the stupid and lazy that certain race baiting politicians desire.

    Also CFR-D isn't "holding hands" and "waiting for EMS"....not sure where you got this.

    You don't know the first thing about my job or what is required or what will be required 6 months from now much less 10 years.

    Did you ever consider that there are numerous labor issues to overcome that will likely prevent us ever from obtaining much less using EMT skills? For one there is a union represented by Pat Bahnken, Local 2507 that represents EMTs and would in all likelyhood have a pile of legal objections to jurisdiction, poaching and other legal issues should the city direct (or negotiate behind everyones backs) with the UFA to have its members trained as EMTs and have them perform such duties.

    There are 1000s of them that use that job to support their families and I'm sure they don't want me encroaching on their job and pay anymore than I would want them encroaching on mine.

    CPAT? Are you F*cking kidding me? First the FDNY was a dept who worked with the IAFF in developing that sh*t exam. We know very well what it is. The end result wasn't to our liking so until 2 years ago we used our own similar but much more strenuous exam (which was still a walk in the park but I digress)

    Now why we currently use the CPAT (we've had our probies take it as part of a state mandated exam at the end of the accademy for years and it is laughed at and considered a joke that most 5'2" desk bound PR female cops could waltz through without breaking a sweat) as the entrance exam.... They allowed the exam (which is now pass/fail and inexplicably gets approved for a "competitive" civil service examinations) so as to allow more women to pass the entrance exam with a score high enough to get them jobs...because we all know a fire is put out much more efficeintly with a diversity-ballanced company and not one made up of the most physically capable applicants! Before failing an event (or two or more in some cases) would take you out of likely contention for a job regardless if you aced the written (which also as of late was signifigantly tampered with to allow dopey, lazy, idiot slackers to pass with reasonable grades)

    You can brag all you want about your exam that has been gerrymandered to allow for gender norming but around here we don't give it any weight.

    You don't know the first thing about the "history" of my job. You know what you imagine to be the history, you know what you think this is about but in reality you don't. You have never worked here and you never will...so keep your BS ignorance to yourself.

    It isnt "rocking the boat". It is about civil service hiring standards and mine and my brothers safety in not hiring the best of the best...but hiring those who have the most vocal political lobby at the moment.

    The only person I see with a chip on their shoulder around here is an aspiring nursing student from the west coast who moonlights as a contractor using empty and largely irrlevant analogies to mount an ignorant defense of the indefensible.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 04-19-2009 at 11:02 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammerhome View Post
    and thats a shame, they should be held to the same standard. I wouldn't have a problem with it, so you can't generalize all ems guys. I dont believe in setting separate bars, everyone should have to pass the same level. Take that part of it up with the academy.
    That is what you just attempted (poorly I might add) to defend. Seperate bars for seperate groups. The "promotional" allows someone with a barely passing grade of let say 77 under the old system to get hired ahead of someone who lets say aced both exams.

    Thus the person who judged in an open competitive exam against all others is judged to be less deserving than som lump of sh*t who will likely hide behind any protected status available to him (or her) during the accademy. As long as they make the effort and don't willingly quit they won't be fired or demoted.

    I know that the training I am putting in personally would be enough for any academy, and that should be how everyone approaches it.

    Im addressing the statement that EMT's are somehow not as good as first responder FF's, its like saying well Im an engineer with a bachelors degree and I know more about engineering than that dude over there with his masters. If you take FFFRED as a FF, and FFFRED as an EMT firefighter, FFFRED with the EMT will be a better firefighter, as long as becoming a EMT didn't somehow automatically make him a pu$$y too.
    That isn't the issue....does everyone on the west coast have a learning disability?

    And how would having medical training make me a better firefighter? If you accept that as true then the reverse must hold true as well no? Being a firefighter will make and EMT a better EMT! Hmmm that doesn't make sense does it.

    One a blue collar labor intensive job, the other a white collar health career field...hmm yep lots of parallels there!

    You clearly don't know the first thing about what we are discussing here...perhaps you should stick with what you know.

    FTM-PTB

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammerhome View Post
    CPAT is too easy I agree, they shouldn't give you 10:20 to complete it, more like 9min would be harder. Unfortunately thats what many depts use to get you past the first physical test. Being the joke that it is though, most people can't pull a 7:35. Im training for the academy, and future stairclimb competitions. The CPAT is just part of the process.
    Academy!

    You aren't even on a job much less my job but you have the b@lls to come here and tell me I have a chip on my shoulder?

    Kid, one bit of advice that will help you if you are lucky enough to actually get hired somewhere....SHUT YOUR F*CKING MOUTH. You don't know anything, and you won't for a very long long time.

    On the differences between CFR's and EMT's...here's two links to wiki that might help you clear up some misunderstanding

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certified_first_responder

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergen...cal_technician

    "emt's are trained to assess a patients condition"
    What does this have to do with NYS or NYC EMT's and CFR-D's. Can you tell us the difference between NYS and NYC regs as it pertains to EMTs and CFR-D's? What can the one do that the other can't. How are NYC protocols different than NYS protocols?

    And yes we also assess a patients condition.


    Sorry but there is a huge difference, we operate under medical direction from the state medical director, and EMT's are the reason people make it to the hospital.
    Hey guess what...all certificate holders who practice any form of pre-hospital care work under the direction of a medical director. That isn't something specific to EMT's, genius.

    And yes the reason people get to the hospital is because the EMT's drive them their in their "AMBALANCE"!

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 04-19-2009 at 11:24 PM.

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    that post wasn't for you gramps

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    "white collar health career field"

    first of all, I would not work as an EMT, white collar my *****, I couldn't make my mortgage as an EMT, Im getting it to be able to work as a firefighter on the west coast.

    I don't agree with the diversity, political influence on the fire departments, but I can't change it.

    I certainly don't want to pretend that I know more than you, but you are an idiot if you think that an EMT firefighter can't provide better care at the scene than a CFR FF

    I also don't believe that someone who can't pass the regular exam should be let in, my argument isn't with the process its with your idea that an EMT firefighter isn't up to par.

    Maybe your co-workers are slipping through the cracks, thats an institutional problem, not a problem with EMT's.

    Could you even pass the CPAT at your advanced state?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hammerhome View Post
    "white collar health career field"

    first of all, I would not work as an EMT, white collar my *****, I couldn't make my mortgage as an EMT, Im getting it to be able to work as a firefighter on the west coast.
    Pay has nothing to do with the color of ones collar associated with EMT's and other health care providers. Look at generally what the DOL and BLS considers when looking at if a job is a trade=blue or professional=white.

    I don't agree with the diversity, political influence on the fire departments, but I can't change it.
    So by your indiference and failure to speak out against racism in all forms you in effect condone it and stand for it. That is what this entire thread is about. You dont' know the history and you don't understand the issues involved but you felt you knew enough to tell everyone that you knew better than me and the others who work here....yet you blindly defended it without knowing all the facts.

    I certainly don't want to pretend that I know more than you, but you are an idiot if you think that an EMT firefighter can't provide better care at the scene than a CFR FF
    A man is shot:
    I'm am going to do the very same thing regardless if I was CFR-D or an EMT.

    A man is unconcious:
    I'm going to provide the same treatment regardless.

    A woman has been hit by a cab:
    Ditto to earlier response...etc.

    I also don't believe that someone who can't pass the regular exam should be let in, my argument isn't with the process its with your idea that an EMT firefighter isn't up to par.
    My "idea" is that the system is rigged to allow lumps of sh*t onto my job when had they taken the open competitive they would have never measured up and not even been considered.

    How would you like it if the Oakland Raiders had to choose players from two groups...one had to submit to the NFL combine and the usual measurements of talent and ability..etc.... and another group that would be selected before those players and this new group...had a much lower bar to pass...lets say that of a typical high school football tryout. Needless to say as a fan you'd be upset and if you were the teams owner...you'd be greatly disturbed as your investment in your team was obviously going to loose games and thus value and income.

    Now with the NFL it is nothing more than a business venture and entertainment expereince...with the Fire Department...it is peoples very lives.

    Maybe your co-workers are slipping through the cracks, thats an institutional problem, not a problem with EMT's.

    Could you even pass the CPAT at your advanced state?
    The intent of the politicians was to reward those who can't measure up to normal standardized hiring practices...they want these lumps of sh*t(specific to their constiutiencies read: race but it allows all races and genders to slip unfit and incompetent individuals in) to slip through the cracks.

    Every man on my job could pass the CPAT...it is a joke of an exam. "Avanced state"? What are you talking about? I've been to matress fires on upper floors that take more physical effort than the CPAT....go back to your books junior and let us adults discuss issues without your ignorance as a distraction.

    FTM-PTB

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    I'm sorry, but i cannot hold my tongue any longer. Even though I am an EMT and am currently in medic school, I 100% agree with the FDNY gentlemen on this one. The topic they are trying to make is that the jump for EMT's was made to give people that would not qualify for the job normally with low scores, to get an easier way. Hence, females and minorities. The whole fire system has gotten OUT OF HAND with the advantages for those group's of people. Whether it be a promotional exam thrown out because not enough minorities scored good on it, too city's jumping past high scoring people to hire a female or minority. Don't get me wrong, if you score well on a test and are high on the list, then my god by all means you deserve the job more then me or someone else you may have beat. But I believe the FDNY gentlemen, like many other FF's (or aspiring FF's) around the country, are fed up with the political BS involved with the hiring processes.

  16. #76
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    You are on this job?

    FTM-PTB
    No, but I did TiVo Rescue Me last week, and will be staying at a Holiday Inn in a few weeks......
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    FFFRED, I owe you an apology. I wasn't aware that an emt taking the promo exam received extra points. I thought the promo advantage was using your years on the city payroll towards retirement, only. I see what you mean by "backdoor", as you're basically leapfrogging others in the open competitive. Perhaps I should read these posts a little more thoroughly. Good NFL analogy. When I worked 46Y in Corona, the CFR's did a great job, IMO. We had some good arrests, a man under(7 train and LIRR),and some good MVA's at dead man's curve on the GCP. CFR's can get some good experience, and won't need to deal with most of the minor BS, only good jobs. When I took the EMT program a while back, some were taking CFR for FDNY at the same time, received the same lectures, and practiced the same skills as I did. The training is basically the same. I also agree that the CPAT is a joke. If anyone wants to (over)prepare, join the Lost Batalloin Hall Weightlifting Club on Queens Blvd, use www.rosstraining.com for conditioning, along with some kettlebell training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hammerhome View Post
    "white collar health career field"

    first of all, I would not work as an EMT, white collar my *****, I couldn't make my mortgage as an EMT, Im getting it to be able to work as a firefighter on the west coast.

    I don't agree with the diversity, political influence on the fire departments, but I can't change it.

    I certainly don't want to pretend that I know more than you, but you are an idiot if you think that an EMT firefighter can't provide better care at the scene than a CFR FF

    I also don't believe that someone who can't pass the regular exam should be let in, my argument isn't with the process its with your idea that an EMT firefighter isn't up to par.

    Maybe your co-workers are slipping through the cracks, thats an institutional problem, not a problem with EMT's.

    Could you even pass the CPAT at your advanced state?
    Frak off.
    You really need to stop weighing in on something you know nothing about here.
    And now you resort to insults. Very mature. You'd last long at any firehouse.

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    ffhh74-

    I agree 100%, that's not my argument. The backdoor part would bother me as well. My argument is with the generalization that the EMT's aren't useful, or however you want to paraphrase what fred said.

    ffbam24-

    why don't you fully read the posts, the insults are responses to FFFred's little quips.

    edpmedic-

    the CPAT is a joke, hopefully the academy will weed those that aren't supposed to be in, out.

    kettlebells are great if anyone is looking to add to their routine, you can get a full body workout with just two or three different ones.

    FFFRED- im not trying to argue your point about "lumps of $hit" getting on, I'd try and show the same lumps the door, but being an EMT doesn't make you a lump, then your calling all your west of the rockies brothers lumps and that $hit wont stick.

    Juniors had a long day of moonlighting and gotta get back to the books..

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    Default Paramedics

    While I have looked at the idea of trying for FDNY I don't want to "backdoor" my way into the department.

    How do the firefighters view a paramedic coming through vs an EMT? Is it EMS is EMS and it is all the same no matter what your cert says. Paramedic school is much harder than a civil service exam and contrary to much of the recent press some of us paramedics are in excellent shape that far surpasses the CPAT standards (I have my own opinions on the CPAT and how easy it is).

    So let me put out a hypothetical situation. Say I work for the FDNY EMS as a paramedic until can take a promotional test. Say I am smart enough to pass the written and I am in awesome shape and pass the physical both well above this 70% number I keep seeing. And say I :do well in the academy and do my job on probation- I am still "square rooting" my way to the job? or am I just taking advantage of using my education to get the job I want?


    I live on the west coast where it is getting to the point that an EMT certifcation is not enough to be competitive and everything is fire based EMS. So unless FDNY switches to fire based EMS (highly unlikely from what I have researched) a paramedic would almost be making an entire career change going from an ALS provider to a CFR-D.

    Maybe its just me being used to how the process works on the other side of the country and the east coast is entirely different. But if I get extra points for being a paramedic- why should that be any different than legacy, residency, or veteran points. The only difference I can see (so correct me if I am wrong) is that why should the FDNY give prefference to EMTs/Paramedics if they are switching to a job where they will not be working as anything more than a CFR-D

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