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    Default FDNY...EMT promotion to FDNY?

    I have a question in regards to how an FDNY EMT can be promoted to a Fire Figther. I understand FDNY EMTs take a promotional exam, not the open competitive exam that the public would take. Do you know how often the promotional exams are given? Also, after you take the exam, and assuming you do well, when do you become eligible for promotion? Do they start pulling from the promotion list for the academy right away? For instance, I see there is a promotion to FF exam being held October 2008, do you get added to the current/active eligible list? I'm thinking they take from the promotion list that would come from the Oct 2008 test before the open list (now 6019) when trying to fill an academy class? But that's just what I've inferred from what I could find on these forums. Thanks.


    *btw I understand the negative stigma behind going this route, not saying I am, just looking for information on the topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HopefulFF View Post
    I have a question in regards to how an FDNY EMT can be promoted to a Fire Figther. I understand FDNY EMTs take a promotional exam, not the open competitive exam that the public would take. Do you know how often the promotional exams are given? Also, after you take the exam, and assuming you do well, when do you become eligible for promotion? Do they start pulling from the promotion list for the academy right away? For instance, I see there is a promotion to FF exam being held October 2008, do you get added to the current/active eligible list? I'm thinking they take from the promotion list that would come from the Oct 2008 test before the open list (now 6019) when trying to fill an academy class? But that's just what I've inferred from what I could find on these forums. Thanks.


    *btw I understand the negative stigma behind going this route, not saying I am, just looking for information on the topic.
    I'm from NYC...and to my knowledge if you take the promotion exam you get looked at 1st...and its much easier to get into the academy.....

    I think the promotional exam is every 2 years while the entry exam is every 4 yrs....

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    Quote Originally Posted by HopefulFF View Post


    *btw I understand the negative stigma behind going this route, not saying I am, just looking for information on the topic.
    *TRANSLATION: I am going to backdoor the FDNY and want to spend as little time as possible in EMS. I also want to have somebody else do all the research for me to get it done as quickly as possible with the least amount of work on my part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalmB4Storm View Post
    *TRANSLATION: I am going to backdoor the FDNY and want to spend as little time as possible in EMS. I also want to have somebody else do all the research for me to get it done as quickly as possible with the least amount of work on my part.
    thats a little unfair....

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalmB4Storm View Post
    *TRANSLATION: I am going to backdoor the FDNY and want to spend as little time as possible in EMS. I also want to have somebody else do all the research for me to get it done as quickly as possible with the least amount of work on my part.
    I am all for working harder not smarter....this kid is willing to put up with EMS BS to get on the job quicker, he should not be condemned for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    I would take the open competitive test. It will take about a year to get hired by EMS then you will have to wait to get civil service status before you can take the EMS promotion test. Study for the open test and wait your turn. If you decide to go the EMS route you better love EMS because it will be a long couple of years if you don't like EMS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace View Post
    I am all for working harder not smarter....this kid is willing to put up with EMS BS to get on the job quicker, he should not be condemned for it.
    Bull****. Why should someone who gets a 70 on a test and/or fail an event during the physical (our real physical, not the BS they do now), get hired before someone physically and mentally capable? Its a backdoor BS move, and in the experience of many of the posters here who are actually affected, the percentage of hairbags who take this route to get the job is much higher than the percentage of hairbags who took the same test and competed fairly.
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    The ems guys in my class, are continually the f-ups and slackers. I didn't used to share the same thoughts as many guys already on, but now I can see why they feel the way they do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Its a backdoor BS move, and in the experience of many of the posters here who are actually affected, the percentage of hairbags who take this route to get the job is much higher than the percentage of hairbags who took the same test and competed fairly.

    Personally, I am a believer of listening to the opinion of those in the know. I wish there was more of that going around.

    A person who uses a back door policy probably will not have the same drive, same desire, or the same motivation as someone who has to work harder to get someplace.

    In hindsight, and I used to hate my coaches at the time for doing this to us, but we used to have our ba!!s beaten in practice every single day. Granted a part of the logic was to make sure that we were physically in shape to perform.
    There was a deeper purpose that I completely agree with. The purpose was to make us work so hard that we didn't want to quit, give up, or feel sorry for ourselves when we got tired, or banged up, or when the going got tough.
    We worked hard in fim study and then worked harder in actual practice. In other words we were more motivated because of the effort we had put in.


    I believe that this kind of logic translates to this job. I don't want someone who is going to quit on us when the going gets tough, or they get tired, or they wish to take a break when we can't as a company.
    There are times when we have to push thru a little pain, or fatigue and just plain "suck it up".

    If someone hasn't worked hard to get on this job, hasn't put in the effort to beat thousands of other people, they may not hold the same appreciation of the job in the end.


    Anyhow, the only opinions that should matter on this topic are those of the people who will have to depend on these guys to cover their back.

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    I'm about to enroll in EMT classes....although, I like EMS....I really want to be a Firefighter....I will use EMS to become a firefighter, if I can't make it with entry exams...I'm not a slacker and I know that this is serious business.....

    I think some of you guys are generalizing....not everyone is going to be lazy that uses the backdoor approach...next, its not illegal....its not against the rules...so whats the problem....?

    they have some guys that pass entry exams and bust their butts to get into the dept. and they become lazy...

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    A couple of things on this topic:

    Prophet, thanks for the info, despite what has been hinted at on this board, the info on this topic isn't as clear cut as applying for any other city position.

    Personally, I agree with Dennis' comments. If someone is willing to take a job knowing the crappy pay, bad working conditions, and less than desirable treatment you'll receive for 1+ years just to help try to get where you ultimately want to be, why is that so wrong? I don't understand the logic behind just sitting here waiting for the next open competitive exam, doing something completely unrelated to the FDNY when you can spend that time doing something constructive that could help your future. It's almost like not taking an internship somewhere when you were in college because for some reason it's considered "backdoor", and that's if you could even compare an internship to being an EMT, safe to say an EMT's job is a little more tough/important.

    Seeing Irish's claim that some of the EMT guys are lagging *** at the academy sucks, and I could understand why he'd be ****ed at them for that. Having said that, shouldn't they be looked at as individuals not keeping up rather than where they came from? What did the non-EMT guys do before they were in the academy that prepared them so much better? I think it's tough to generalize there.

    Jasper, I think most of us played sports growing up and can see your point. You try to practice hard enough so when you're in the in-game situation nothing tougher than you practiced comes your way. The EMT guys go through the same academy the non-EMT guys do though, so their training should be the same. Unless they are given some slack in the academy due to their prior job history, then I would have to agree with you.

    I'm just throwing this out there for discussion, not saying anyone else is wrong or right because I don't know enough about all of this (especially the politics) to do that. Ultimately though, I don't think anyone could disagree with saying the guys are on the line have the heaviest weighted opinions here. If anything I said came across as disrespectful I apologize as that was not my intent. Thanks guys.

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    oh sweet, sweet jesus. Im on the other frickin coast and I know this answer...

    It doesn't matter if you score 100% on the written, 100% on the physical. Going backdoor is BS because you are taking the *competitive edge* off the competition by not going through the same due process as the rest of the applicants. If you want it bad enough, you will wait while in the normal working world.

    NOW, that being said. It has also been posted here that there are backdoor Fr in the FDNY that are not hairbags, IGMs and squareROOTERS (like my East Coast slang? oh-yeah!). But they also do not talk about how they got on the job, because of the stigma and stereotypical behavior of backdoor members. SO, if you decide to do this, and are one of the few good ones, do not talk about it, just work hard, keep your nose down and stay anonymous.

    And enjoy your time in one of the busiest EMS systems in the world. No matter how much employee-employer contempt, workplace negativity and BS calls. Its all what you make it.

    Howd I do?
    The good thing about this job is that we have done so much, with so little, for so long that we can do everything with nothing...... which is what is wrong with this job.
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    For anyone that is willing to go through EMS to get on FDNY so be it. This option is open to ANY and ALL applicants who want to be on FDNY not just a select few. If you don't agree with it or think it's unfair that's fine, but you have the same "competitive advantage" to get on this way or not, it's your choice. If you're not willing to do it then that's your problem if you don't get hired by FDNY. If it was such a bad thing the FDNY wouldn't have this option available whether the guys who come from EMS are the problems or not. I know FDNY firefighters don't like guys that do this but guess what, it's a way of giving yourself a better chance to get on with them if that's what you really want. Yes you will be criticized by people on here, people on the department and so forth. But guess what, you got on the department that you wanted to be on, while some others didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarnyTheKid View Post
    For anyone that is willing to go through EMS to get on FDNY so be it. This option is open to ANY and ALL applicants who want to be on FDNY not just a select few. If you don't agree with it or think it's unfair that's fine, but you have the same "competitive advantage" to get on this way or not, it's your choice. If you're not willing to do it then that's your problem if you don't get hired by FDNY. If it was such a bad thing the FDNY wouldn't have this option available whether the guys who come from EMS are the problems or not. I know FDNY firefighters don't like guys that do this but guess what, it's a way of giving yourself a better chance to get on with them if that's what you really want. Yes you will be criticized by people on here, people on the department and so forth. But guess what, you got on the department that you wanted to be on, while some others didn't.
    Thank You....

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    so i guess no sons of chiefs were ever in the EMS classes? give me a break you uber-buffs, we all know the score. what about the 5 point residency credit that so many suburban guys claimed without legitimately living in the 5 boroughs? is that not bucking the system by defrauding the investigator?

    if the guy wants to get on the job quicker, good for him. you guys act like the tests are difficult or this job is hard to get now. let it go. it's your life pal, if you want to get on the job, do it. if they have a problem with that, there's only so much you can do but in the end it won't matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarnyTheKid View Post
    For anyone that is willing to go through EMS to get on FDNY so be it. This option is open to ANY and ALL applicants who want to be on FDNY not just a select few. If you don't agree with it or think it's unfair that's fine, but you have the same "competitive advantage" to get on this way or not, it's your choice. If you're not willing to do it then that's your problem if you don't get hired by FDNY. If it was such a bad thing the FDNY wouldn't have this option available whether the guys who come from EMS are the problems or not. I know FDNY firefighters don't like guys that do this but guess what, it's a way of giving yourself a better chance to get on with them if that's what you really want. Yes you will be criticized by people on here, people on the department and so forth. But guess what, you got on the department that you wanted to be on, while some others didn't.
    Yep its all about you and your wishes...we are here to cater to your dreams and desires. It is children like you who are the problem in todays job (and in this country in general)

    Few if any of you work or live here...I for one do and I don't want some square-rooting, manipulative POS potecting my family while I'm away on duty. Nor do I want to work with one and place my life in their hands.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you are the best of the best you have nothing to fear from the OC...if you are looking to take the backdoor it because you don't believe you will measure up compared to everyone else.

    I didn't have residency when I applied....I could have phonied it like some did and get hired many years eariler...but I and many others have integrity and have respect for the civil service system. We did what we had to do and that was pass a competitive exam with almost perfect scores.

    As for all you persons who are so accepting of people that look to work the system and take short cuts in life....Please post your Depts Human resource's phone numbers so these "first rate" canidates can apply at your F*ck shop. Clearly you don't mind trusting your lives with these indiviuals of questionable charater, dependablity and integrity.

    FTM-PTB

    PS-As for all the reasons on why the city has the "backdoor" in place...I've never seen such wide-eyed naivete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notabuff View Post
    so i guess no sons of chiefs were ever in the EMS classes? give me a break you uber-buffs, we all know the score. what about the 5 point residency credit that so many suburban guys claimed without legitimately living in the 5 boroughs? is that not bucking the system by defrauding the investigator?

    if the guy wants to get on the job quicker, good for him. you guys act like the tests are difficult or this job is hard to get now. let it go. it's your life pal, if you want to get on the job, do it. if they have a problem with that, there's only so much you can do but in the end it won't matter.
    It is excuse laiden POS like you who get on the job and years later, attempt to game the system in promotional exams to get ahead at everyone elses expense.

    Every one of you should you be lucky enough to get onto this job are in for a very rude awakening. But then again...you dopes sound like you got it all figured out.

    FTM-PTB

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    Help me out. Squarerooters?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Help me out. Squarerooters?
    Hairbag, scumbag, IGM....guys who are out for themselves....

    ie the people who think that everything is on the level, and that the EMS promotional was created for people who are go-getters, and that just because they survived EMS they are entitled to the job. You know, the ones who dont have a problem with people failing events on a physical, getting a 70 on the written, having felony convictions, and who learn (or already have ingrained) lazy behavior, as long as they do whatever it takes to get the job.

    If people cant see the real reason why the EMS promotional exists (or the residency credit for that matter), completely disregard the experience of actual FDNY members (not uber buffs), or simply would rather remain ignorant, I guess we are just jerks then.

    (This wasnt directed at you George, got a funny feeling you agree with us on this one )
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 08-17-2008 at 02:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarnyTheKid View Post
    For anyone that is willing to go through EMS to get on FDNY so be it. This option is open to ANY and ALL applicants who want to be on FDNY not just a select few. If you don't agree with it or think it's unfair that's fine, but you have the same "competitive advantage" to get on this way or not, it's your choice. If you're not willing to do it then that's your problem if you don't get hired by FDNY. If it was such a bad thing the FDNY wouldn't have this option available whether the guys who come from EMS are the problems or not. I know FDNY firefighters don't like guys that do this but guess what, it's a way of giving yourself a better chance to get on with them if that's what you really want. Yes you will be criticized by people on here, people on the department and so forth. But guess what, you got on the department that you wanted to be on, while some others didn't.
    Its all about IGM, right? Glad you arent in my kitchen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Yep its all about you and your wishes...we are here to cater to your dreams and desires. It is children like you who are the problem in todays job (and in this country in general)

    Few if any of you work or live here...I for one do and I don't want some square-rooting, manipulative POS potecting my family while I'm away on duty. Nor do I want to work with one and place my life in their hands.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you are the best of the best you have nothing to fear from the OC...if you are looking to take the backdoor it because you don't believe you will measure up compared to everyone else.

    I didn't have residency when I applied....I could have phonied it like some did and get hired many years eariler...but I and many others have integrity and have respect for the civil service system. We did what we had to do and that was pass a competitive exam with almost perfect scores.

    As for all you persons who are so accepting of people that look to work the system and take short cuts in life....Please post your Depts Human resource's phone numbers so these "first rate" canidates can apply at your F*ck shop. Clearly you don't mind trusting your lives with these indiviuals of questionable charater, dependablity and integrity.

    FTM-PTB

    PS-As for all the reasons on why the city has the "backdoor" in place...I've never seen such wide-eyed naivete.

    PLZ.....I'm studying hard to be a great EMT maybe a future paramedic....isn't that required for the FF position...so why I'm a risk to you and your brothers safety...?

    I want to be a FF...I'm not lying or doing anything decieving to get the position...is it illegal...?...is it prohibitedů NO...so why the sour grapes?...

    why do you think I will be a horrible FF because I opted to to study my butt off and pass a EMT course with the FDNY that I will have to pass regardless in the future?

    if its so bad and dishonorable and made terrible FF's why they continue to have promotional exams?...allowing more EMT's to become firefighters?.....come on....now i'm not worthy of being a firefighter cuz I chose to become an EMT first....

    nonsense....

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropheticPoet83 View Post
    if its so bad and dishonorable and made terrible FF's why they continue to have promotional exams?...allowing more EMT's to become firefighters?.....come on....now i'm not worthy of being a firefighter cuz I chose to become an EMT first....

    nonsense....
    I don't usually comment on these threads because I'm not on the job in NYC, but I really have to agree with Fred and the other FDNY members on here. The ability to transfer from EMS to fire is political, and that's it.

    Your last post shows your ignorance to the situation and why sometimes the right thing to do isn't always the easy thing to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropheticPoet83 View Post
    PLZ.....I'm studying hard to be a great EMT maybe a future paramedic....isn't that required for the FF position...so why I'm a risk to you and your brothers safety...?Not on our job.

    I want to be a FF...I'm not lying or doing anything decieving to get the position...is it illegal...?...is it prohibitedů NO...so why the sour grapes?...Its hardly sour grapes. Just because its perfectly legal doesnt make it right. How would you feel if someone got a 70 on the written exam, failed 1, possibly even 2 events on the physical, and got hired possibly years before someone who aced both exams? I know how I felt, because it happened to me.

    why do you think I will be a horrible FF because I opted to to study my butt off and pass a EMT course with the FDNY that I will have to pass regardless in the future??One, no you dont. Shame to be so misinformed. Second, Because in the experience of the members who are affected by this on a daily basis, a higher percentage of squarerooters came from EMS. This isnt a stereotype, this isnt some talking point of some political appointee, this is real life experience of people who are in the firehouse.

    if its so bad and dishonorable and made terrible FF's why they continue to have promotional exams?...allowing more EMT's to become firefighters?.....come on....now i'm not worthy of being a firefighter cuz I chose to become an EMT first.... Because the firemen dont get to make this decision. The promotional exams exist for political and social reasons, not because its in the same career path. (which again, it isnt.)

    nonsense....
    First, if you are going to argue about something, at least learn what you are talking about. We are not EMTs, we are not Paramedics. The buses are separate from the Fire side. We do first responder EMS only.

    Did you bother to read anybody's posts?

    There are reasons why the EMT promotional was created. It has nothing to do with being a better fireman (the two jobs do not go hand in hand, and being a good EMT has absolutely nothing to do with being a good fireman), and if you and others are too naive to understand the real reasons, then tough sh*t.


    I dont get something. According to some here, if you "put up with EMS", you should be entitled to the promotional exam. What makes you any more entitled? And why are you willing to degrade the level of service that the EMTs and Paramedics provide? NYC paramedics are some of the best, most knowledgable, and experienced in the world, and its a shame that someone would abuse the system just to get ahead.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropheticPoet83 View Post
    PLZ.....I'm studying hard to be a great EMT maybe a future paramedic....isn't that required for the FF position...so why I'm a risk to you and your brothers safety...?

    I want to be a FF...I'm not lying or doing anything decieving to get the position...is it illegal...?...is it prohibitedů NO...so why the sour grapes?...

    why do you think I will be a horrible FF because I opted to to study my butt off and pass a EMT course with the FDNY that I will have to pass regardless in the future?

    if its so bad and dishonorable and made terrible FF's why they continue to have promotional exams?...allowing more EMT's to become firefighters?.....come on....now i'm not worthy of being a firefighter cuz I chose to become an EMT first....

    nonsense....
    As you've already been told, FDNY Firemen are not certified to any level of EMS. They are certified first responders trained on AED's which is the same as cops and lifeguards. Dual role fire departments are very very prominent these days but the FDNY hasn't been hit yet. Dual role came about because small city/suburban FD's needed "more work" to satisfy those in office so they wouldn't cut funding, staffing, and/or pay.

    If you want to be a dual role FF/PM thats awesome, nothing wrong with that. But FDNY isn't your place to do that. There are a lot of busy departments out there that are dual role. Maybe you could look into that?

    As for the backdoor. The guys in NYC are telling you it's not good, bad for your career, wrong etc. But you are listening to outsiders simply because it is what you want to hear. Listen to the guys you are trying to become bro.

    If you like EMS, become and EMT and maybe go paramedic. When you get certified, get on with FDNY EMS as a civil service employee and move into the city. When the next open exam comes up you'll have the 5 extra points for residency. Study as hard as you did for EMT class on the written test and youll score high enough to be in one of the earlier classes. Then when you get on open competitive, youll already have a pension established with the city (at least last time I checked). And then you can volunteer the necessary hours to keep your certs somewhere during your proby year (can't have a second job first year on). When your year is up, EMS at a hospital or private service can be your second job and you wont have to hustle for odd jobs. Makes sense and makes everyone happy right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarnyTheKid View Post
    If it was such a bad thing the FDNY wouldn't have this option available
    Are you really this naive?
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