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    Default IAFF endorses Obama

    No surprise I suppose. The candidates' records posted by the IAFF certainly make Obama appear to be the logical choice for my labor union. In the past I've voted my pocket book, except for 2004. I may ignore (the perceived) economics this time, too, for working families. I'm undecided; I can't get excited about either one.

    http://www.firefightersforobama.com/

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    Sadly, not everything the IAFF has ever done was smart.

    REPUBLICAN

    BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE CAN BE ON WELFARE!
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    Phew. I can sleep now. Like the IAFF (or any union for that matter) making a political endorsement really affects how the average person votes.

    They should have just shut their mouths and let the election play out.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    What amazes me is that any union would endorse a candidate who proposes to take more money from the working class to give it to the poor. It should be more about what will this candidate do for my union members. Just one more reason to hate unions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    What amazes me is that any union would endorse a candidate who proposes to take more money from the working class to give it to the poor. It should be more about what will this candidate do for my union members. Just one more reason to hate unions.
    I read some of the comparisions on the website. I'll look for other sources but I believe that is exactly what occurred.

    McCain supports placing firefighters into the Social Security which would be an immediate hit of about 16% on income. He wants to overturn FLSA which would have an impact on how overtime is calculated.

    Most curious to me is his opposition to defined benefit pension plans. He campaigned here in CA to support an initiative that would have demolished defined benefit plans in 2005. It lost. The Governor has expressed regret over supporting the issue but McCain has not. What is curious to me is his belief in this matter given that he collects a pension for his years of service as a naval officer and qualifies for another as a legislator. If he believes defined benefit pension plans are so wrong why isn't he now advocating eliminating them for federal workers. Especially those in the DoD?

    Like it or not, he has a record of opposing what I call very much bread and butter issues for working people.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    SC.. it's ntr only firefighters who would take the hit on social security.. the municipalites alsiohave to kick in their share... less funding for FD's police, DPWd education.. and that means either cutting services or raising taxes.

    I had my 40 quarters in before I got on the FD. I highly doubt that I will see a cent from it.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Actually, I didn't tell the whole story here. Personally, I think both candidates are absolutely horrible. They both want to tax more and spend more. They both support the nonsense of Global Warming, Both think there is some sort of health care crisis. I do like Obamas Idea to raise the top income on SSI, personally, there should be no top income.

    But neither of them gets it. Less taxes, far less spending. It's that simple. Yet, our politicians need to spend on special interest in order to buy votes. I would also like to see an end to subsidies and a reduction in tax incentives. The tax code needs to be simplified.

    How come they do not have a "do over" button on the voting machine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    SC.. it's ntr only firefighters who would take the hit on social security.. the municipalites alsiohave to kick in their share... less funding for FD's police, DPWd education.. and that means either cutting services or raising taxes.

    I had my 40 quarters in before I got on the FD. I highly doubt that I will see a cent from it.
    Of course that is another pet peeve. Why should anyone be exempt from paying into the system? If it is good enough for our military then it should be good enough for everyone.

    Of course they want to follow up the SSI stuff with universal health care. This will be another program benefiting a few and taxing everyone. Of course we will have to provide health care for illegal immigrants too. Heck, while we are at it, let's just provide health care for the world !!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    SC.. it's ntr only firefighters who would take the hit on social security.. the municipalites alsiohave to kick in their share... less funding for FD's police, DPWd education.. and that means either cutting services or raising taxes.
    I'm thinking the hit will be on the employee.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    I had my 40 quarters in before I got on the FD. I highly doubt that I will see a cent from it.
    You'll see something. It just won't be as much as if you weren't going to receive a government pension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Of course that is another pet peeve. Why should anyone be exempt from paying into the system? If it is good enough for our military then it should be good enough for everyone.
    That's because neither you or our military pay into a pension that was designed to be self sufficient.

    There is no personal account for social security recipients or military personnel. The benefits are paid out of the general funds. McCain believes those of us who haven't paid into the system should now have to do so.

    Regardless of what you think. I won't be voting for McCain for both this and the FLSA reasons. George Bush (the smarter) once stated that people vote their wallets. Truer words were never spoken.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    IAFF endorsement of Obama is no surprise. His views on labor are close to theirs. And we wonder why Detroit and Flint are the barren places they are.

    I am a member of the IAFF, but on a personal level, I'm anti-compulsory-Union. In my State, it's open shop, or voluntary. I choose to be member to take advantage of some of the benefits offered by them, such as legal representation in the event of a motor vehicle crash. My Union has no collective bargaining ability.

    A closed shop or union shop monopolizes the workforce, which leads to an inefficient cost of services. This produces higher wages at the expense of fewer jobs or excessive costs to the customer.

    Not everything a Union does is golden. Look at some of the things that have happened in Boston. The Union opposed the Firefighters being drug tested. Maybe I didn't read enough details, but that's still hard to comprehend.

    One of the major things I'd like to see is a lateral transfer program that allows firefighters to move from one Dept to another, even if it's only within your home State. By doing so, fighters would not be locked into staying in a place where pay & benefits are lacking. They could easily transfer to another Dept that offers more for their skills, without losing their pension.

    So if a Municipality/Fire District chooses to start neglecting their personnel, they'd likely see an exodus of personnel, leaving them looking for new employees who lack important skill sets. This would immediately put them on notice.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    One of the major things I'd like to see is a lateral transfer program that allows firefighters to move from one Dept to another, even if it's only within your home State. By doing so, fighters would not be locked into staying in a place where pay & benefits are lacking. They could easily transfer to another Dept that offers more for their skills, without losing their pension.
    Many departments in CA have reciprocity between pension plans. I'm surprised this isn't available in TX.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Of course that is another pet peeve. Why should anyone be exempt from paying into the system? If it is good enough for our military then it should be good enough for everyone.

    Of course they want to follow up the SSI stuff with universal health care. This will be another program benefiting a few and taxing everyone. Of course we will have to provide health care for illegal immigrants too. Heck, while we are at it, let's just provide health care for the world !!!!
    Back when Social Security was started, the Feds didn't want public employees in the system.

    That is why we have our own pension system, which I pay into, along with my IRA's.

    Politicians on both sides of the aisle have talked about raiding our pensions and incorporating it into SSI.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    What amazes me is that any union would endorse a candidate who proposes to take more money from the working class to give it to the poor. It should be more about what will this candidate do for my union members. Just one more reason to hate unions.
    You just don't get it.

    The IAFF considers only matters that pertain to the members of the organization as they relate to your job, period.

    Welfare, family values, gun rights, pro-life vs pro-choice - none of these are considered because they do not matter to the IAFF as an organization.

    Individual IAFF members have to insert FF issues in the list where they deem appropriate and vote accordingly.
    RK
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Of course that is another pet peeve. Why should anyone be exempt from paying into the system? If it is good enough for our military then it should be good enough for everyone.
    It is amazing to me how people argue about stuff when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
    RK
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Many departments in CA have reciprocity between pension plans. I'm surprised this isn't available in TX.
    It may be.
    I know my screen name is confusing, but I'm in NC. I've never lived in TX. The screen name is throw back to my fraternity in college.
    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Welfare, family values, gun rights, pro-life vs pro-choice - none of these are considered because they do not matter to the IAFF as an organization.
    Ding Ding Ding

    This explains the motives behind almost all endorsements from special interest groups. The IAFF has backed some Republicans, and the NRA has backed some Democrats. Everything isn't black & white.
    Last edited by txgp17; 08-17-2008 at 04:53 PM.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    It may be.
    I know my screen name is confusing, but I'm in NC. I've never lived in TX. The screen name is throw back to my fraternity in college.
    Maybe it's time to get my prescription checked. It might help if read your location under your name I would have seen that.
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    Many departments in CA have reciprocity between pension plans. I'm surprised this isn't available in TX.

    Texas does have such a thing called the Texas Municipal Retirement system or TMRS. If your city, which a lot do, is in the program, you can tranfers to it and maintain your retirement. For example, you do 15 years here and leave to go here. You are a new employee but you still have 15 years in the retirement system.

    Now, not every FD does that. I moved to one that doesnt and got my money back minus taxes.

    And regarding the Boston drug testing comment, search the topics on it. If the city wants it, you have to give a little to get a little so to say. The union just isnt going to gives its privelages away for free
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Of course that is another pet peeve. Why should anyone be exempt from paying into the system? If it is good enough for our military then it should be good enough for everyone.

    Of course they want to follow up the SSI stuff with universal health care. This will be another program benefiting a few and taxing everyone. Of course we will have to provide health care for illegal immigrants too. Heck, while we are at it, let's just provide health care for the world !!!!
    My pension system is evaluated annually. At the end of the year if it is not funded to 100% of its actuarial value, then my contribution rate and the city's contribution rate go up. If it is funded above 100% then everyone's rates go down to the minimums.

    Try that with social security.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    They should have just shut their mouths and let the election play out.
    I agree. The writing for this endorsement has been on the wall for awhile, but like Jasper states, the IAFF should take the Bono approach and work with whoever is in office, rather than burn bridges. I don't see why the IAFF needs to endorse another candidate since their first choice dropped out.
    The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    That's because neither you or our military pay into a pension that was designed to be self sufficient.

    There is no personal account for social security recipients or military personnel. The benefits are paid out of the general funds. McCain believes those of us who haven't paid into the system should now have to do so.

    Regardless of what you think. I won't be voting for McCain for both this and the FLSA reasons. George Bush (the smarter) once stated that people vote their wallets. Truer words were never spoken.
    Sorry, I don't buy that explanation. We all have to pay income taxes; we should all pay SSI as well. FYI SSI pays more than just retirement benefits. It also pays for life time disability as well. There is also medicaid. No one, regardless of their pension plan, should be exempt.

    I lose 14.2% of my paycheck to this ridiculous program. I'm sure you think it is a good program, but you don't have to support it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Back when Social Security was started, the Feds didn't want public employees in the system.

    That is why we have our own pension system, which I pay into, along with my IRA's.

    Politicians on both sides of the aisle have talked about raiding our pensions and incorporating it into SSI.
    Aren't military personnel public employees? Teamsters have their own pension system, yet they pay in. Why should anyone be exempt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geinandputitout View Post
    My pension system is evaluated annually. At the end of the year if it is not funded to 100% of its actuarial value, then my contribution rate and the city's contribution rate go up. If it is funded above 100% then everyone's rates go down to the minimums.

    Try that with social security.
    Yea RIGHT!!! They just keep sucking money out of me that I will never see back. I guess that is why I favor privatization of part of those funds. At least I will some return on my investment. There is nothing worse than seeing some illegal getting SSI without ever having put into the system.

    I put money into my pension system as well (401k), my employer contributes matching funds. Even though I have my own self sufficient retirement system, I still have to contribute to SSI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yea RIGHT!!! They just keep sucking money out of me that I will never see back. I guess that is why I favor privatization of part of those funds. At least I will some return on my investment. There is nothing worse than seeing some illegal getting SSI without ever having put into the system.

    I put money into my pension system as well (401k), my employer contributes matching funds. Even though I have my own self sufficient retirement system, I still have to contribute to SSI.
    A 401(k) is not a pension system. There is a spectacular difference. A 401(k) is an individual account that does not spread risk or support members that became disabled.

    Corporate america convincing people a 401(k) and a defined benefit pension system are even similar is one of the biggest lines of bull sh(t ever perpetrated on the american public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geinandputitout View Post
    Corporate america convincing people a 401(k) and a defined benefit pension system are even similar is one of the biggest lines of bull sh(t ever perpetrated on the american public.
    You're exactly right. Pensions were alive and well until corporations were acquired by other corporations or corporate raiders with the express purpose of raiding over funded pension funds.

    And defined benefit plans are very much alive and well in the private sector. It's just that folks like ScareCrow aren't at that level.
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