1. #1
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    Default Mayor wants to shut down FD

    Here is a good one for you. What a guy.


    My own thought is that as NJ is the most over taxed and most taxed state in the US. It has among the worst in staffing of any FD's. I would say of the whole state there is maybe 5 or so well staffed FD's. I think shared services is a great idea, but this in NOT the way to do it.

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200...ush_to_us.html


    Roselle mayor makes push to use Linden's fire department
    by Alexi Friedman/The Star-Ledger
    Wednesday August 13, 2008, 11:22 PM

    Roselle Mayor Garrett Smith is convinced his borough can save thousands of dollars a year by handing over its firefighting duties to neighboring Linden.

    Smith introduced a resolution at tonight's council meeting that seeks a state grant to study the idea of sharing fire services with Linden.

    Council members, some of whom appeared blindsided by the proposal, nevertheless allowed it to go through for a vote at their meeting next week.

    The idea is sure to be controversial, especially because Smith would likely end the mutual aid agreement Roselle has with other fire departments should Linden take on the fire department's full responsibilities.

    Councilman Jamel Holley said he opposes the idea of outsourcing the fire department. Holley, who serves as the borough's fire commissioner and is a frequent critic of the mayor's, said at the meeting the borough should "get our own house in order. We need to fix our own house," he said, referring to the fire department.

    Holley added the mayor's unwillingness to appoint a permanent fire chief for the last two years has contributed to the problem.

    Councilwoman Christine Dansereau, who heads up the public-safety committee, said while she was pleased about a grant to study the fire department's efficiency, she was not happy the mayor hadn't consulted with her committee beforehand.

    The resolution was not on the council's agenda. Smith handed it out to council members tonight.

    "Let me know," Dansereau told Smith, noting she wasn't necessarily opposed to the plan.

    While the resolution calls simply for the council to vote on the $20,000 Department of Community Affairs study grant, the mayor clearly wants to eliminate the borough's 27-member fire department, shedding its $3 million annual budget.

    "The citizens are hurting," he said. "We have to do something."

    If a shared-services agreement eventually goes through, Roselle's lone firehouse would be converted into a community center, Smith said, part of a larger plan the mayor has been touting for years.

    Linden's fire squad is four times the size of Roselle's. Linden Mayor Richard Gerbounka, who has spoken to Smith about the issue, said he is open to the shared-services idea, although he hasn't fully endorsed it.

    "We need to look at any innovative way of saving money," he said.

    For Smith, however, the plan would go a long way to boost his borough.

    "We have limited ratables," he said. "What I'm proposing comes up with real solutions to save money."
    Last edited by KyleWickman; 08-18-2008 at 08:44 PM.
    This space for rent

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWickman View Post
    Here is a good one for you. What a guy.


    My own thought is that as NJ is the most over taxed and most taxed state in the US.
    It isn't referred to as "The People's Republic of New Jersey" for nothing! And just think.....If The Messiah is elected president, we'll all be paying taxes comparable to NJ!
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWickman View Post

    "The citizens are hurting," he said. "We have to do something."
    And eliminating their fire service is they way to fix that? Does anyone know how far away these two areas are?

    Either way though, it sounds like the mayor has a problem with the fire department, what with refusing to appoint a chief for the last two years and all. Something about this smells funny to me. Anyone from the area who can shed some light on this one?

  4. #4
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    Right idea, wrong way of going about doing it.
    Share services, but don't pull all apparatus outta the city.
    By eliminating all the brass (Chief, Asst. Chief) from one city, as well as dispatchers, and having one dispatch center, you can eliminate a few more positions as well.

    Just axing the whole dept, and paying someone else to do it is NOT the way to go.
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  5. #5
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    Roselle is 2.7 sq miles with a population of 21,000 people.

    I agree with what BLSBoy said, shared services and regionalization are the way of the future (like or not). However, letting politicians pull back room deals to get it done is not the way to go.

    I guess I don't know enough about this study he's requesting to really form much more of an opinion.

    I feel for the guys in Roselle and hope that noone loses their job in the process. Maybe this can be done over time and take into account retirements and buy outs.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Thumbs up Same Stuff, Different Post.............

    I'll say it again: This is reason number 487,908,645,904 for creating legislation removing control over Fire and Rescue services from Town and City Governments. LOCAL Politicians absolutely should be barred from having any influence over Public Safety. The County is the most likely level to deal with matters involving Emergency Services, and that's the way it should be.
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    27-member fire department, shedding its $3 million annual budget.
    ... Roselle's lone firehouse
    Is this information correct?

    $3 million per year.
    27 guys.
    1 firehouse.

    2.5 sq miles.
    21,000 pop.


    Anyone know what their call volume is?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Looks like they have had some fires....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhi3Zts5a50

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6XnD...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSSL0...eature=related

    Here is some more info...

    http://www.firedepartments.net/NewJe...eFireDept.html

    No website found for them. They are not even listed on the Boroghs website.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Is this information correct?

    $3 million per year.
    27 guys.
    1 firehouse.

    2.5 sq miles.
    21,000 pop.


    Anyone know what their call volume is?
    It is pretty high. Plus I think they do BLS transport.
    This space for rent

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    It isn't referred to as "The People's Republic of New Jersey" for nothing! And just think.....If The Messiah is elected president, we'll all be paying taxes comparable to NJ!
    If I read his tax plan correctly there will be no increases for those making less than $250K/yr. If firefighting pays that well in Pee-Aaay where do I sign up?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    If I read his tax plan correctly there will be no increases for those making less than $250K/yr. If firefighting pays that well in Pee-Aaay where do I sign up?
    That's just his payroll tax plan. His income tax plan also raises the 35% bracket to 39%, and the 15% bracket to 20%. His social security tax plan calls for taxing all income over $102k, a number that will in fact impact many firefighters.

    You can (IMO) make a good argument that more tax revenue is needed. But let's not pretend that Obama's plan doesn't raise taxes, and not just on the "rich".
    Last edited by NewHampshireFF; 08-19-2008 at 12:12 PM.

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    If it's so hard on the citizens, why don't they consider consolidating? Goverment gives $500,000 just to consolidate two departments into one last time I read. Was seriously being considered in our area.

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    Consolidating services seems to be a pretty popular buzz word within NJ politics. This topic has come up in many different municipalities over the past few years.

    Whenever budgets are tight and fiscal times difficult, the first threat is to close down firehouses/fire departments. While much of the time this talk is hyperbole, it would be a long time coming before the town of Roselle simply shuttered its doors and gave the firefighting/EMS responsibility to a neighboring town.

    Whenever a town needs to do some "belt tightening" with their finances, they always seem to threaten to close firehouses.

    Several townships in NJ have done consolidation studies. So this situation is not unique. Surely there are other ways to save money within a municipality. But what grabs headlines and makes the situation sound dire is the talk of closing firehouses. Many policitians have threatened to do this recently, but very few have actually prevailed.

    Should be interesting to see how this goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    If I read his tax plan correctly there will be no increases for those making less than $250K/yr. If firefighting pays that well in Pee-Aaay where do I sign up?
    I'm sure he'll stop at those making 250k/year. That's just the first step.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    Consolidating services seems to be a pretty popular buzz word within NJ politics. This topic has come up in many different municipalities over the past few years.

    Whenever budgets are tight and fiscal times difficult, the first threat is to close down firehouses/fire departments. While much of the time this talk is hyperbole, it would be a long time coming before the town of Roselle simply shuttered its doors and gave the firefighting/EMS responsibility to a neighboring town.

    Whenever a town needs to do some "belt tightening" with their finances, they always seem to threaten to close firehouses.

    Several townships in NJ have done consolidation studies. So this situation is not unique. Surely there are other ways to save money within a municipality. But what grabs headlines and makes the situation sound dire is the talk of closing firehouses. Many policitians have threatened to do this recently, but very few have actually prevailed.

    Should be interesting to see how this goes.
    I would also challenge these politicians and take it one more step. Let's consolidate these little boroughs into townships.

    The "borough" craze that swept through NJ and some other Northeastern states over a hundred years ago are wasteful and should be consolidated.

    Also, I believe that Roselle has it's own police force? I bet that it costs a lot more than 3 million for that.
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 08-19-2008 at 02:43 PM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    If I read his tax plan correctly there will be no increases for those making less than $250K/yr. If firefighting pays that well in Pee-Aaay where do I sign up?
    Will institute a socialized national health care plan
    McCain No
    Obama Yes

    Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase
    McCain No
    Obama Yes

    Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals
    McCain No
    Obama Yes

    CAPITAL GAINS TAX

    MCCAIN
    0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

    OBAMA
    28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)

    DIVIDEND TAX
    MCCAIN
    15% (no change)

    OBAMA
    39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')

    INCOME TAX
    MCCAIN
    (no changes)
    Single making 30K - tax $4,500
    Single making 50K - tax $12,500
    Single making 75K - tax $18,750
    Married making 60K- tax $9,000
    Married making 75K - tax $18,750
    Married making 125K - tax $31,250

    OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
    Single making 30K - tax $8,400
    Single making 50K - tax $14,000
    Single making 75K - tax $23,250
    Married making 60K - tax $16,800
    Married making 75K - tax $21,000
    Married making 125K - tax $38,750

    Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!


    INHERITANCE TAX
    MCCAIN
    - 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)
    OBAMA
    Restore the inheritance tax

    Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

    NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

    New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!


    You can verify the above at the following web sites:

    http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/e...008/index.html

    http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/iss...ues.taxes.html

    http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes

    http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/p..._on_taxes.html

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-.../barack_obama/

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-...s/john_mccain/
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    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/taxes.asp

    FWDbuff, if you're going to just simply cut and paste the rightwing crap you get in emails or stumble upon while slobbering over posts in wingnut forums, you should at least say so.

  18. #18
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    Gentlemen, can we get back to the topic at hand?
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    BLS .... be serious dude.

    How often do these threads stay on the topic at hand??

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    It was worth a shot, since we had some good debate and ideas for a short while.

    But, it is political season....
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    Gentlemen, can we get back to the topic at hand?
    The very first post complained of high taxes in New Jersey. Someone else made unfounded claims that the entire U.S. would be the crap pot that NJ is if Obama is elected president, due to similar tax issues. Don't want the thread to take the direction of tax discussion? Don't mention it in the very first post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    FWDbuff, if you're going to just simply cut and paste the rightwing crap you get in emails or stumble upon while slobbering over posts in wingnut forums, you should at least say so.
    So, are you saying that that what he posted is inaccurate? Which parts?



    If anyone from a red state want's to swap homes, let me know. This blue state is killing the middle class with taxes. My property taxes just went UP $1300/year due to a town wide re-evaluation.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    So, are you saying that that what he posted is inaccurate? Which parts?
    I posted the link to Snopes.com...did you bother reading it?

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    If anyone from a red state want's to swap homes, let me know. This blue state is killing the middle class with taxes. My property taxes just went UP $1300/year due to a town wide re-evaluation.
    Who cares? It's your problem. Just don't come here.

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