1. #1
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    Question Rope Life & Bail Out Line

    I have 2 questions to ask:

    First: This might be a dumb question, but does rescue rope & tag line rope have a life expectancy (NFPA, OSHA standards)? I think all of our rope is 10+ yrs old, when we got our new ladder truck, we got new rope. the rope only gets used for training, usually.Also can our old rescue rope be made into tag line rope or is it better to just get new stuff?

    Second: None of our guys have bail out line. Saw some at FDIC. We are now getting a hotel & we have multiple apartment complexes, schools, industry. I was looking for the best bail out system for the money and if they are too much what is a cheaper way to give the guys some protection. (I hate to use cheaper way money should be no option when it comes to safety but it always is!!). I would like to try for a grant to get some, hopefully.
    Thanks for any input!!
    Last edited by ltkeith25; 08-19-2008 at 08:46 PM. Reason: forgot info

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltkeith25 View Post
    Second: None of our guys have bail out line. Saw some at FDIC. We are now getting a hotel & we have multiple apartment complexes, schools, industry. I was looking for the best bail out system for the money and if they are too much what is a cheaper way to give the guys some protection. (I hate to use cheaper way money should be no option when it comes to safety but it always is!!). I would like to try for a grant to get some, hopefully.
    Thanks for any input!!
    I have the Crosby hook and 50ft of Technora rope. I have been wanting to get the Petzl EXO Decender, but there are no classes in my area...

    What I got works for me.
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    I have the PMI PED, Crosby Hook, Gemtor and 50' of Kevlar rope...bought it myself. If the job does not buy vital stuff like that, there is no excuse for you not to at least look into it. The entire dealio cost me less than $350 total. Worth every penny for the peace of mind that I have what I need.

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    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...al_escape_bag/



    we use stuff like this. No decsenders or anything fancy. Just the 'biner and the rope.

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    Sorry to hijack this...but nice Hurricane Warning signal there, AJ!

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    I bought my own. Dept does not provide it for us. I bought all CMC....caribiner's (2), Escape 8 (1), 75FT of Kevlar escape rope, CMC stuff bag. It cost me around $100....small price to pay when it comes to my *****.


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    Evaluate where you work before you spend 350 bucks on something. If you are surronded by primarily 2 story houses and one or two 4 or 5 story buildings play the odds. Of course the system we have at work is the best solution right now, but, paying out the nose for something you can harldy ever train on is a waste of money, as when time comes to use it youll forget! Before the PSS system I had 6mm rope with a double 8 on each end with a biner. My rational was it was always in my right pocket as I am right handed, with the biner clipped on the edge of the coat pocket. I was if I needed to, attach it to anything I thought wouldnt go through the window if I was without an option and slowly get out the window with it around my chest. Anything slowing your fall down is better than just accelerating at 9.8m/s till you stop!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyirons2 View Post
    Evaluate where you work before you spend 350 bucks on something. If you are surronded by primarily 2 story houses and one or two 4 or 5 story buildings play the odds. Of course the system we have at work is the best solution right now, but, paying out the nose for something you can harldy ever train on is a waste of money, as when time comes to use it youll forget! Before the PSS system I had 6mm rope with a double 8 on each end with a biner. My rational was it was always in my right pocket as I am right handed, with the biner clipped on the edge of the coat pocket. I was if I needed to, attach it to anything I thought wouldnt go through the window if I was without an option and slowly get out the window with it around my chest. Anything slowing your fall down is better than just accelerating at 9.8m/s till you stop!
    Good point, and I probably should have covered that. I have mostly 2 story PDs in my area with a smattering of 4-5 story jobbies...problem for me is...I do not want to use the 'wrap around belay', because I will see terminal velocity before passing the first floor, and my 2 story PDs are either walk out basements in the rear or garden level...so the cost versus benefit was there for my decision. My point was that there is no excuse not to explore the possibility of rigging up something for yourself. In the end YOU are responsible for your own safety.

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    No we are not responsible for our own safety, our employers are, we are responsible for our own actions! You will not reach terminal velocity no matter how big you are, especially if you hang and drop. From a first hand account from a neighbor who had to bail, and had his pss bag, 'You have no time to react, not one second!' He sent his can man and irons man out the window and went out himself, he was severely injured and will never return to work, but he is alive! Unless you have the opportunity to train with it, which many places do not, you really should keep it simple.

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    Which systems require training from the manufacturer? I looked at the Bailout Buddy at FDIC, is this a good one?
    Not to seem like an ungrateful s.o.b. but can anyone help me on the first question?

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    I did, its doubt, no real limits on the life of rope. Is it kermantle or twisted nylon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyirons2 View Post
    No we are not responsible for our own safety, our employers are, we are responsible for our own actions! You will not reach terminal velocity no matter how big you are, especially if you hang and drop. From a first hand account from a neighbor who had to bail, and had his pss bag, 'You have no time to react, not one second!' He sent his can man and irons man out the window and went out himself, he was severely injured and will never return to work, but he is alive! Unless you have the opportunity to train with it, which many places do not, you really should keep it simple.
    Yes, we are, in the end, responsible for our safety...AND actions. If my employer chooses not to equip me with a PSS, then it is ultimately MY responsibility if I choose not to buy/set up one for myself. I am not interested in arguing this as a post-mortem work-up on who is getting my estate and who will be contributing to it.

    In regards to terminal velocity...it was a joke, get over it. I know enough about physics, and it will not get this discussion furthered to talk about it on that level.

    However lets talk about your injuries if you bail from >20 feet. Trauma guidelines suggest that someone who has fallen from that height (simply based on mechanism of injury) that their chances of suffering an serious injury increases greatly. A 2.5 story drop ~20 feet...on the third it is >30. I am currently nursing a shattered ankle (not job related)...for $350, I think it is cheap insurance for me not to ever be on crutches again...who knows...I may NEVER use it. I havent 'used' my helmet either

    Like I said, there is NO excuse to not evaluate your options. There is NO excuse to not train with what YOU have either....and that is a good point. If you never train with it...are you even going to use it?

    Not everyone is as fortunate to be as well equipped and trained as you are...we all make our choices, and will live or die by them...In the end, that is all there is.

    I made my choice...

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    Well if youre driving the Engina your biggest fear is a heart attack from doing nothing, so I guess your worries are gone.

    Lose the attitude, you spent 350 bucks on a paper weight. You use your helmet every time you go in to a fire knuckle head!

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    Check out NFPA 1983. All rope should be stored properly and all uses logged. If you do not know the history and how the rope was stored error on the side of caution and put it out of service. It can be recycled into search lines or utility ropes in short sections (non life safety). Use of lifelines and such should be well documented and all lines should be regularly inspected by a person who may have to hang from it someday. I personally think anybody who inspects a line should be required to rappell with a line they inspected once a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyirons2 View Post
    Well if youre driving the Engina your biggest fear is a heart attack from doing nothing, so I guess your worries are gone.

    Lose the attitude, you spent 350 bucks on a paper weight. You use your helmet every time you go in to a fire knuckle head!
    Denegrated to where I expected it to...you are a real help.

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    WTF is denegrated? I did help, you just didnt see it! Im glad you felt like you had to pay 350 for something your Union should have fought for. The more guys that do it with their own money, the less likely you will ever get paid to be trained to do it! You should take that IAFF avatar down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyirons2 View Post
    WTF is denegrated? I did help, you just didnt see it! Im glad you felt like you had to pay 350 for something your Union should have fought for. The more guys that do it with their own money, the less likely you will ever get paid to be trained to do it! You should take that IAFF avatar down.
    Look it up.

    I live in a right to work state, and my union is not even recognized by the town. Glad I had to pay? You are one of those guys who screams 'Brotherhood' the loudest too, right? I had no choice, but since you know EVERYTHING...I dont have to tell you that right?

    Why should I take my avatar down? Because we are still fighting to be recognized? Because there are better things to fight for collectively than my own PSS? Like a freaking contract? Not everyone has it as good as you do, bub.
    Last edited by ECCMac; 08-21-2008 at 01:07 PM.

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    "I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'."

    -Bob Newhart


    BTW, what I think you meant was degenerated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCFDRescue2 View Post
    "I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'."

    -Bob Newhart


    BTW, what I think you meant was degenerated.
    Thank you, brother...I was a little heated and failed to check the spelling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyirons2 View Post
    Well if youre driving the Engina your biggest fear is a heart attack from doing nothing, so I guess your worries are gone.

    Lose the attitude, you spent 350 bucks on a paper weight. You use your helmet every time you go in to a fire knuckle head!

    Hey now! It can be pretty hairy fighting fire in the modified Morgan's position. I almost spilled my cool refreshing beverage the other day!

    I agree with you about playing the odds and spending money. Work here can't buy us all PSS but they give us all kinds of opportunities to train at the dept and company level. I keep a length of the stirling kevlar rope in a cargo pocket with some biners, webbing, and other tools. I'm not a big fan of carrying single use tools such as escape systems. A length of rope can be used a bunch of different ways, search tethers, haul a tool, bailout among others. If you carry it in either a pocket or a bag with a wide opening you can stow it rather quickly and continue on with your work. I would much prefer to carry something that I will have a practical use for on the job AND have the ability to bail myself out. We're not a very tall city but we're getting taller, many of us are trying to adjust and prepare.
    I may speak gibberish, but I don't talk s***! -- Dropkick Murphys

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    I would strongly suggest that you only use your rope for emergency situations. Get a length of BS rope from HD or Lowes and use that. Try and get the Technora rope, they tested a lot of different ropes at work, and although its expensive its worth it. Technora is actually the same kevlar like material that is in every single timing belt manufactured world wide. If you take a look at the belt you will see in the ribs the ends of the fibers. It is an extremely strong material and is very resistant to heat and flame.

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    I see what you are saying about using the rope for LS only. I'm just out of room in my pockets, ya know? Rope in one pocket, basic tools (pliers, spanner, screwdrivers, etc) in the other, couple things in the radio pocket and I'm full. I got the stirling stuff for free from a dealer and I kept it when I saw how durable it is. It's difficult to cut on purpose and it's rather heat resistant. 9 times out of 10 there's two of us performing as a company so there aren't a lot of hands to carry a lot of stuff. I'm not b**ching, just trying to do a good job. How do you guys carry your escape rope?
    I may speak gibberish, but I don't talk s***! -- Dropkick Murphys

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    With all of this talk about which rope to purchase/use, there is very little discussion about what you will actually do with it during an emergency.

    You can have the strongest, most heat resistant rope in the world wound neatly in whatever pocket you choose, but if you have no idea:

    A) how to secure it,
    B) what to secure it to
    C) the ability to do this in seconds in high heat and zero visibility,
    D) something to attach it to yourself
    E) the ability and training to use it to lower yourself

    then it serves no purpose whatsoever.

    Don't push for rope....push for training and a system that you can practically and easily deploy in the worst of circumstances.

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    i don't get why people see the need for all these doo-dads to add onto their rope. You should have the grip strength if you wrap the rope around yourself and have both ends running through your hands to not only slow yourself, but stop yourself and hang.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    i don't get why people see the need for all these doo-dads to add onto their rope. You should have the grip strength if you wrap the rope around yourself and have both ends running through your hands to not only slow yourself, but stop yourself and hang.
    Cause I can get out quicker with my "doo-dads" then you can trying to wrap yourself up.
    I have tried both. I learned by wrapping.
    I got taught how to use "doo-dads", and it makes a difference.
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