1. #1
    Forum Member
    heavyhitterEFD3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    34

    Default agressive firefighters....where are they?

    i heard the other day from a fellow brother firefighter that there dept. has a new guidline stating that if there is no one trapped inside, they will not be going interior! what is up with that???!!! i have watched fires on the news go from small to out of control due to lack of aggression....when these guys are getting 5-6 other dept. for man power and the structur ends up on the ground. in my city our houses are extremly close together...if we dont go IN and put it out, we will end up chasing the fire down the street....even if it is a vacant. but i am talkin about these nice suburban citys....peoples property is something we are supposed to protect as well as there lives. get in and put the bitch out...has anyone else heard of this defensive attack method?
    strechin on a vacant, goin throughout....

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    23

    Default

    The reason this is such an insulting copout is because you have to go inside to find out if anyone is trapped. Its called a primary search (but not the kind that is done after the fire is out). Only after the primary search is complete will you know if anyone is trapped inside or not. The other insulting thing about this is its not about safety. Its about a dept/city's liability risk which means its about money. Citizens in such a city should demand from the city a dept dedicated to saving lives and property (which means doing the job the right way and going inside. This is no doubt what the firemen wanna do). Otherwise, what is the point of paying for the dept. to exist?
    Mark

    FTM-PTB

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber
    JHR1985's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    1,918

    Default

    some will probably jump on here and state that because of manpower, training, and other issues that the guideline is a sufficent one and other BS


    bottom line is the job is dangerous. get used to it. part of the job is getting rough and dirty. dont like it, then dont do it
    The Box. You opened it. We Came...

    "You'll take my life but I'll take your's too. You'll fire musket but I'll run you through. So when your waiting for the next attack, you'll better understand there's no turn back."

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    heavyhitterEFD3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    34

    Default yes!

    hell yea im glad i got agreement here! and the whole manpower bull ****...we r so understaffed it isnt even funny! the worst i have seen it is 4 guys on a shift...that has happened a few times....unsafe? hell yea! did we burn that day??? hell yea!....did we do our damn job? hell yea....we made an interior attack on three fires on one of those low manning days...with four guys to start off...we did end up with 1 extra engine from a neighboring city eventually. and yes...it is insulting! when people watch there homes burn to the ground and there firemen are throwing water on it from the street...i feel bad for those young guys cause u know most of them wanna go in and throw down
    strechin on a vacant, goin throughout....

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    98

    Exclamation PRIMARY sEARCH !!!!!!

    I recently posted on a similar topic (2 in/2 out) and there was some interesting discussion including those who stated that unless there is a known life hazard don't go in.....well good thing there are still aggressive firefighters who understand the concept of a PRIMARY SEARCH ! My department responded recently to a sfd with heavy fire on A side, crew entered door on c side to attack fire and search and what do they find ??? a victim laying on the kitchen floor, she was removed and is expected to survive and did I mention THE NEIGHBORS TOLD THE ENGINE CREW NO ONE WAS HOME !!!!!!! I quess they should have stayed outside especially since they only had a 3 man engine ! hope OSHA doesnt find out !!!

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    Bootstraps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba
    Posts
    19

    Default

    I will be very selfish in this comment but can you imagine being at a station that has this procedure.......stand back with an exterior attack...go into do savlage and overhall and find a body 10 feet in from an exit!

    Not only does this set up a situation where you would loose savable lifes but the emotional crash that crews would experience. It is one thing to give everything you have and loose a life but to stand back and basically do nothing and loose a life is a bloody shame.

    Sounds like the mentality of a bean counter behind a desk.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    johnny46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mcl312 View Post
    ,a victim laying on the kitchen floor, she was removed and is expected to survive and did I mention THE NEIGHBORS TOLD THE ENGINE CREW NO ONE WAS HOME !!!!!!!
    You know that cannot happen in Louisiana? Neighbors there are never wrong about occupancy. They're infallible.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber
    SmittyBR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    You know that cannot happen in Louisiana? Neighbors there are never wrong about occupancy. They're infallible.
    That would be North Louisiana, Johnny
    BRFD Eng. 1

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    johnny46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmittyBR View Post
    That would be North Louisiana, Johnny
    I apologize. My baiting was inexact and sloppy.

    My wife is from Baton Rouge. I don't want to give you her name, in case you know her
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber
    SmittyBR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    My wife is from Baton Rouge. I don't want to give you her name, in case you know her
    Well, it is a small,loving city...






    ...but unless she went to Glen Oaks High or St. Joe's there's a good chance we've never met.
    BRFD Eng. 1

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    johnny46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmittyBR View Post
    Well, it is a small,loving city...






    ...but unless she went to Glen Oaks High or St. Joe's there's a good chance we've never met.
    No. Catholic High, whatever that is.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    SmittyBR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    No. Catholic High, whatever that is.

    Catholic High is the all boys school. St. Josephs is it's sister school.

    Hell, if she went to St Joe's she might know my wife or sister in law.
    BRFD Eng. 1

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    johnny46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmittyBR View Post
    Catholic High is the all boys school. St. Josephs is it's sister school.

    Hell, if she went to St Joe's she might know my wife or sister in law.
    She's 38.

    my message was too short.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    SmittyBR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    She's 38.

    my message was too short.
    She wouldn't know them then. They moved here from Jersey in 1990.
    BRFD Eng. 1

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber
    JHR1985's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    1,918

    Default

    Catholic High is the all boys school.

    You've got a lot of explaining to do Johnny 46...
    The Box. You opened it. We Came...

    "You'll take my life but I'll take your's too. You'll fire musket but I'll run you through. So when your waiting for the next attack, you'll better understand there's no turn back."

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,372

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heavyhitterEFD3 View Post
    hell yea im glad i got agreement here! and the whole manpower bull ****...we r so understaffed it isnt even funny! the worst i have seen it is 4 guys on a shift...that has happened a few times....unsafe? hell yea! did we burn that day??? hell yea!....did we do our damn job? hell yea....we made an interior attack on three fires on one of those low manning days...with four guys to start off...we did end up with 1 extra engine from a neighboring city eventually. and yes...it is insulting! when people watch there homes burn to the ground and there firemen are throwing water on it from the street...i feel bad for those young guys cause u know most of them wanna go in and throw down
    "Throw down"? Is that what you call it out there????

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    johnny46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JHR1985 View Post
    You've got a lot of explaining to do Johnny 46...
    Our insurance will pay for the surgery.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    FF4606's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    43

    Default

    What's happenin fellow Heavy Hitter. I used to work for your Dept. Now I'm in Florida. Say hello to the guys for me. Anyone that has been there since before 2001 will know who I am. Tell them Graham said hello.

    It used to be that way when I worked there also. Sometimes only 4 guys on shift. Sucks to catch a fire while the rescue is out. Doesn't leave many options does it.

    Do yourself a favor and listen to the old guys when they tell you to get out of that place before it's too late. You might think you're happy there but you probably aren't. You will only realize it once you're gone and not dealing with the bull anymore.

    By the way, wish England luck in his recovery.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    I have a better question: what are they?

    a department that goes interior on every fire is aggressive. what about one that goes interior on every fire, but loses 3-5+ firefighter a year? what about those that go on working fires when anyone in is dead already?

    a department that ALWAYS does a primary search. ALWAYS. what if their are flames shooting out every window? again, do aggressive departments always send the primary search crew in first?

    a department that will do the same jobs whether there are 6 guys on a engine/truck or if there is 3. of even better if you normally run with 5 are are down to 3 instead, do you still operate as effectively? doesn't a safety factor come into play, or does it only apply to non-aggressive departments?

    I'm just trying to figure out what different people consider to be
    aggressive.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  20. #20
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Jacksonville Fl
    Posts
    507

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    Our insurance will pay for the surgery.

    hey johnny, or janet... maybe we'll just call you J, nice sig man. Was that from the house watch article by Ray Mcormick?

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    johnny46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeatherHed4Life View Post
    hey johnny, or janet... maybe we'll just call you J, nice sig man. Was that from the house watch article by Ray Mcormick?
    It was on the side of a picture cube my mom had when I was a kid. I memorized it because I was raised to be pro-labor. I think Jimmy Hoffa came up with it.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  22. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    University Park, MD
    Posts
    235

    Default

    "I have a better question: what are they?"

    It is all in the eye of the beholder.
    My "aggressive" might be your "reckless". Your "busy" might be my "slow night". My "ghetto" might be your "urban renewal".
    "If you put the fire out right in the first place, you won't have to jump out the window."
    Andy Fredericks,
    FDNY E.48, SQ.18
    Alexandria, VA F.D.

    Rest in Peace

  23. #23
    MembersZone Subscriber
    JHR1985's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    1,918

    Default

    Our insurance will pay for the surgery.

    Doesnt surprise me. I'm having to deal with their BS right now after having been off for like a week due to some GI problems
    The Box. You opened it. We Came...

    "You'll take my life but I'll take your's too. You'll fire musket but I'll run you through. So when your waiting for the next attack, you'll better understand there's no turn back."

  24. #24
    Forum Member
    heavyhitterEFD3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    34

    Default throw down

    yea we sometimes call it that. figure of speech i guess.

    when you pull up on a stretch...and u got flames comin out every window...make an attept at an interior attack, specially when the next house is 2 ft away....i think its more effective, ....make that attempt. and yea, when we are short guys which is often, we still do the same job we would do if we had 8 or 21 or 32....maybe not as effective, but we have a job to do.....a job that just so happens to be dangerous. so maybe its recklessness....maybe its agressivness. your right it is all in the eye of the beholder. but when someone says that they do not make an interior attempt unless they know people are trapped.....that is BS at its finest. i just think that alot of depts are getting soft. just wanted to see what others thought.
    strechin on a vacant, goin throughout....

  25. #25
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,628

    Default

    Wow.

    Another thread where my name has come up, and I haven't even posted.

    It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside to know that you guys think of me all the time.

    I'm sure we could all come up with wonderful "One time at band camp ......" stories to shoot down each others SOPs.

    it's amaing that one poster in particuliar is able to get away with "in the collective expereince of the xxxx we have found that ......" and many of you will take it as gospel, yet in our "collective experience" we have found that our way of operating is quite effective at both keeping our citizens alive, and more importantly, keeping our personnel alive.

    Just as a point of reference, I checked with our old guys, and we have had 1 residential fire death in the 40 plus years of our department, and they were most likely dead before the fire.

    so maybe its recklessness....
    So maybe you're an idiot?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. www.firefloor.com New site for firefighters by firefighters
    By firefloor in forum New Web Site Announcements
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-23-2006, 09:45 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-08-2005, 07:02 PM
  3. Agressive Prosecution in Long Island Death
    By JayTL in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-30-2002, 08:45 PM
  4. NYC events for firefighters given by firefighters?
    By Sara in forum Meet and Greet
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-12-2002, 07:14 PM
  5. Firefighters Helping Firefighters?
    By SFD-129-3 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-09-2001, 01:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register