1. #1

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    Default Juniors vs. Explorers? Any Help?

    Hi all first off let me start by saying I am a volunteer firefighter who is wanting to implement a junior or explorer program at my dept. I am not sure of the biggest difference in the two other than the name? Also anyone who would be willing to send me a copy of your departments by-laws or SOG's for the program would be extremely helpful and greatly appreciated. We just want to start this program to get more young people involved in the fire service. Any help, tips, and suggestions will be greatly appreciated. You can post here or email me:

    matthew.williams10@okstate.edu

    Thank you in advance,
    Matthew

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    The term "Explorer" is a trademark of the Boy Scouts of America Learning for Life program. So, Explorer posts and junior programs are the same thing, except that the explorer post will be affiliated with the BSA.

    If you are starting from scratch, I would definately look into chartering an Explorer post. The BSA has 75+ years of experience running this sort of program, plus good stuff like leader training and liability insurance.

    From your email addy, I'm guessing you are in OK. There are 7 different BSA councils in OK. Let me know where you are, and I will get you the contact info for the right council.

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    Yeah I am in OK. I am in Stillwater attending OSU. Any information on one of those posts near here would be great.

    Thanks,
    Matt

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    from what i know they are pretty much the same thing in a sense but I always thought of Junior Firefighter are the kids who go on calls and wanna be firefighters while Explorers sit and watch and want to learn.


    I can try and find you a copy of a local town's program. I will PM you it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pvfd14 View Post
    Hi all first off let me start by saying I am a volunteer firefighter who is wanting to implement a junior or explorer program at my dept. I am not sure of the biggest difference in the two other than the name? Also anyone who would be willing to send me a copy of your departments by-laws or SOG's for the program would be extremely helpful and greatly appreciated. We just want to start this program to get more young people involved in the fire service. Any help, tips, and suggestions will be greatly appreciated. You can post here or email me:

    matthew.williams10@okstate.edu

    Thank you in advance,
    Matthew
    There are certain advantages and disadvantages to both. The advantage of being an Explorer post with the BSA is you get insurance from them, whereas if you are not affiliated you must supply the insurance (I say must because I assume you would want insurance). The downside is there is a set of rules (very, very restricting) that the BSA puts in place. So as another poster said, if you want to have the kids coming on calls and helping out more, might as well just be a Junior Firefighter. Because while you "can" do it with the BSA, it will void your insurance should anything happen.
    Last edited by ATFDFF; 08-26-2008 at 05:35 PM. Reason: forgot a few words...

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    The BSA rules do not prevent the kids from going on calls and helping out. There is very little if any difference. Most of the restrictive rules are local department rules having nothing at all to do with the boy scouts.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    The BSA rules do not prevent the kids from going on calls and helping out. There is very little if any difference. Most of the restrictive rules are local department rules having nothing at all to do with the boy scouts.
    While departments do put regulations in, other than that, you're kinda wrong:
    Fire and Emergency Services Exploring: Safety Issues

    There are some issues and hazards specific to Fire and Emergency Services Explorer programs that must be considered when organizing a post. These issues are fairly unique compared with other types of Explorer posts, being a direct result of the post's affiliation with the department and the potential for hazards.

    Before engaging in any training activity or direct operational activities with the department, Exploring and/or department officials should investigate the legalities of Explorers participating in such activities. Most states have child labor laws that define what minors under the age of 18 may and may not participate in. Even though the individual may not be an actual member or employee of the department, these regulations may still apply. The following is a general list of guidelines that should be used for the formation of a post Explorer safety policy. As with any program, extremes of temperature, humidity, and other atmospheric conditions should be considered during any activity.

    One issue that requires particular attention is what the Fire and Emergency Services Explorer will be allowed to do at the emergency scene. Many departments allow Explorers to respond on the apparatus with trained personnel. A solid policy must be established as to what the Explorer may and may not do once he or she arrives on the scene.

    All policies must fit with departmental regulations, Learning for Life regulations, and state laws. All of these issues should be resolved in the post bylaws before Fire and Emergency Services Explorer activities begin. If you have any questions about the safety of an activity not listed, contact your local Learning for Life office.

    * Explorers may not be substituted for trained personnel.
    * Explorers must be equipped with personal protective equipment that is appropriate for the activity being done.
    * Explorers may be mobilized only as a post, with required leadership. Explorers are not on call as individuals.
    * Explorers who ride on apparatus or other department vehicles must be seated and must wear a seat belt.
    * Explorers may not drive department vehicles.
    * Explorers may not climb aerial ladders.
    * Explorers may not climb ground ladders that exceed 35 feet in length, or not supported against a structure.
    * Explorers may not enter or perform ventilation procedures on a burning structure.
    * Explorers may not use any tools or gloves on energized electrical equipment.
    * Explorers may not operate cutting torches
    * Explorers may not operate hydraulic rescue tools or equipment.
    * Explorers may not handle life nets.
    * Exceptions: Using an official training facility, the use of aerial ladders with the appropriate safety equipment, and entering a controlled burn building is approved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATFDFF View Post
    While departments do put regulations in, other than that, you're kinda wrong:
    Fire and Emergency Services Exploring: Safety Issues

    There are some issues and hazards specific to Fire and Emergency Services Explorer programs that must be considered when organizing a post. These issues are fairly unique compared with other types of Explorer posts, being a direct result of the post's affiliation with the department and the potential for hazards.

    Before engaging in any training activity or direct operational activities with the department, Exploring and/or department officials should investigate the legalities of Explorers participating in such activities. Most states have child labor laws that define what minors under the age of 18 may and may not participate in. Even though the individual may not be an actual member or employee of the department, these regulations may still apply. The following is a general list of guidelines that should be used for the formation of a post Explorer safety policy. As with any program, extremes of temperature, humidity, and other atmospheric conditions should be considered during any activity.

    One issue that requires particular attention is what the Fire and Emergency Services Explorer will be allowed to do at the emergency scene. Many departments allow Explorers to respond on the apparatus with trained personnel. A solid policy must be established as to what the Explorer may and may not do once he or she arrives on the scene.

    All policies must fit with departmental regulations, Learning for Life regulations, and state laws. All of these issues should be resolved in the post bylaws before Fire and Emergency Services Explorer activities begin. If you have any questions about the safety of an activity not listed, contact your local Learning for Life office.

    * Explorers may not be substituted for trained personnel.
    * Explorers must be equipped with personal protective equipment that is appropriate for the activity being done.
    * Explorers may be mobilized only as a post, with required leadership. Explorers are not on call as individuals.
    * Explorers who ride on apparatus or other department vehicles must be seated and must wear a seat belt.
    * Explorers may not drive department vehicles.
    * Explorers may not climb aerial ladders.
    * Explorers may not climb ground ladders that exceed 35 feet in length, or not supported against a structure.
    * Explorers may not enter or perform ventilation procedures on a burning structure.
    * Explorers may not use any tools or gloves on energized electrical equipment.
    * Explorers may not operate cutting torches
    * Explorers may not operate hydraulic rescue tools or equipment.
    * Explorers may not handle life nets.
    * Exceptions: Using an official training facility, the use of aerial ladders with the appropriate safety equipment, and entering a controlled burn building is approved.
    Those strike me as completely reasonable rules, and no fire department should allow children to do those things, whether you call them "jnuiors" or "explorers."

    OP, I will send you a PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATFDFF View Post
    * Explorers may not be substituted for trained personnel.
    * Explorers must be equipped with personal protective equipment that is appropriate for the activity being done.
    * Explorers may be mobilized only as a post, with required leadership. Explorers are not on call as individuals.
    * Explorers who ride on apparatus or other department vehicles must be seated and must wear a seat belt.
    * Explorers may not drive department vehicles.
    * Explorers may not climb aerial ladders.
    * Explorers may not climb ground ladders that exceed 35 feet in length, or not supported against a structure.
    * Explorers may not enter or perform ventilation procedures on a burning structure.
    * Explorers may not use any tools or gloves on energized electrical equipment.
    * Explorers may not operate cutting torches
    * Explorers may not operate hydraulic rescue tools or equipment.
    * Explorers may not handle life nets.
    * Exceptions: Using an official training facility, the use of aerial ladders with the appropriate safety equipment, and entering a controlled burn building is approved.
    Congratulations. All of those should apply just as much to "juniors" as they would to "explorers". So no I'm not kinda wrong.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Thank you guys for all the information anyone who has additional info or advice feel free to shoot it my way. I am going to call the local BSA tomorrow and get an official set of rules and regulations as well as check into any and all laws involved. This is something that I want prepared properly. I would like to get it running as soon as possible but will not risk breaking laws or risking safety to do so. We intend to use a strict set of rules as far as response and what they can do as well as making sure they are insured. The target is to get more interest in the youth and give them something positive but safety is the number one issue.

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    at our dept. all the explorers are issued their own set of gear with a helmet. After 12 meeting they are allowed to ride out at any station they want to for up to 12 hrs. They can jump in on calls and "Help Out". After they get all their certs done they can instantly become a volunteer with the dept. Only explorers can become vols with the dept. No outsiders are allowed.

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