Hurricane windows

[jonnyirons2]

So the neighbors down here in Florida are getting new windows, and being inquisitive I went to check it out. The new windows are claimed to be resistant to a 2x4 at 100mph, installer also said to 'register' the windows with Palm Beach County Fire Rescue.

Now on to the question.

How effective is the saw with the carbide tooth bit?

Has anyone forced the sill plate lip, which from my estimations is about 2-3inches in height, to get the door off the track.

And if you cant force it, do you get the chains and or the hurst tool?

I would be hesitant with the saw as without a face piece you run a huge risk of glass dust and shards attacking your body, or is that SOP to wear a mask.

[BLSboy]

So the neighbors down here in Florida are getting new windows, and being inquisitive I went to check it out. The new windows are claimed to be resistant to a 2x4 at 100mph, installer also said to 'register' the windows with Palm Beach County Fire Rescue.

Now on to the question.

How effective is the saw with the carbide tooth bit?

Has anyone forced the sill plate lip, which from my estimations is about 2-3inches in height, to get the door off the track.

And if you cant force it, do you get the chains and or the hurst tool?

I would be hesitant with the saw as without a face piece you run a huge risk of glass dust and shards attacking your body, or is that SOP to wear a mask.

Very effective. Back in July of 06, when we burned a multi million dollar mansion, it had hurricane windows, supposidly able to stop a .38 slug.

Melbourne 74 Truck came over as mutual aid, and on of their guys opened up a window for us with a carbide tip saw blade. His face was all tore up after, so if you choose not to wear your facepiece, you do so at an extreme risk.

[mhenrich]

I remember hearing somewhere about hitting these windows with a CO2 extingusher to "freeze" them, then striking them with something to break them. Not sure how effective this actually is, or how many people carry CO2 extinguishers, because we don't carry them.

[LeatherHed4Life]

Carbide tip all the way. It breaks the safety glass up rather than heating it. A diamond may work. Composites just melt the material and it melts back together after the blade passes through.

You may be succesful in forcing doors and windows open, but if you really need it open the saw is the way to go. i think the tools would take too long and not as effective.

I was taking one out the other day and the inside pane was tempered so it broke when i took it with the hook. I thought the second pane was stubborn so i really took a whack at it with the pry end of the roof hook and it nearly bounced the tool through the gypsum into the other room.

[RFDACM02]

I remember hearing somewhere about hitting these windows with a CO2 extingusher to "freeze" them, then striking them with something to break them. Not sure how effective this actually is, or how many people carry CO2 extinguishers, because we don't carry them.

I remember this about Plexi and Lexan, but haven't heard it on the new Hurricane windows. Didn't I hear these have become required by insurance companies for homes in the "hurricane" path along the cost from FL to the Carolina's? IIRC Bill Gustin did an article on these in FE last year or so. Sounded like saws with full face protection was the answer.

[Bones42]

I remember hearing somewhere about hitting these windows with a CO2 extingusher to "freeze" them, then striking them with something to break them. Not sure how effective this actually is, or how many people carry CO2 extinguishers, because we don't carry them.

Does not work. Been there, tried that. They are tough to break. You can shatter the outside layer easy enough, but the inner layer is a project.

Saw with carbide has been the best we have found. Once the outside pane has shattered, there is not much dust/shards as the inside pane is laminated.

The ones we tested were from Marvin Windows. The frames were all reinforced so forcing them was tough. Also note, when they are installed, there are metal straps on the sides of the frames that wrap around 2x4's in the wall so they are not easy to pop out the whole frame.

NJ has required these windows (or a suitable substitute) for all construction within 1 mile of the ocean front.

There are some videos posted at iacoj.com of drilling/testing we did with hurricane windows.

Our SOP is to call for additional trucks once we find the residence has these windows. And yes, they look exactly like normal windows. No markings, no signs, nothing.

[BLSboy]

NJ has required these windows (or a suitable substitute) for all construction within 1 mile of the ocean front.

Bones, that for new construction?
And would a suitable substitute be shutters?

Where can I find more on this?

[Bones42]

Yes, new construction. Although in some areas, any work on a house that involves more than 50% of the structure, falls under new construction guidelines.

Normal shutters don't count. Storm shutters may. The most common substitute is plywood that is cut to shape, numbered, and has some type of attachability to a window. The plywood has to be certain thickness (I don't remember what it is) and has to be stored onsite in a reasonably accessible location.


Of course, what happens, the plywood is cut and labelled for the final inspection of the job, and then discarded. Should the homeowner then try to file a claim on their homeowners insurance, they would have to "explain" how the plywood failed.

The explanation of the new rules and such came from my local lumber yards.

[jonnyirons2]

So the 4 windows and 6 sliding glass doors were over 20k to replace. These windows better stop nuclear fallout!

[FTLAUD]

Everyone seems to about have it covered. Also, while not nearly as fast, once a purchase point is made in the window after quite a few hits with a halligan pick or axe blade, a glass-master hand saw can do a decent job of cutting out the glass. Not anywhere near as fast as the carbide tip on a K-950 though. Miami-Dade Fire did a great evaluation of the various methods of entering through these windows awhile back.

Also, as far as forcing the window, it would probably be very difficult, but I can't say I have tried it. To give you an idea, my house now has hurricane resistant doors and windows all around. My new front door, as well as the side ones have the normal deadbolt in its location, as well as one on the hinge side, and top and bottom as part of the "hurricane lock." In some doors this is a seperate bolt lever to throw, on mine throw the deadbolt, and all 4 go into place on all sides. Makes the typical outward swining door much harder to force, especially since they are solid wood doors with sheet metal covering the exteriorn, in steel frames. I have even seen some all steel doors and frames available. My windows are casement windows that only have two bolts that secure them in place to their steel frames. Then as others have said, the frames themselves are tied into the structure.

I've heard Palm Beach County already does, or is going to require all hurricane windows to have an identifying sticker on the property. This is a good idea, because unlike shutters which are obvious to everyone, the only way to realize that hurricane windows are in place is when your halligan or sledge bounces off the window.

And you're right irons, they definitely aren't cheap!

[CRFDrookie]

I'm from Iowa, but on a recent family trip to Fripp Island I stopped by the fire station there and we got to talking about this hurricane glass. They now keep a regular prunning saw on all their SCBAs becuse they said it was the only thing that seemed to work, and this would be their way of emergency egress.

I didn't ask him how long it would take to cut open a window with it but I can't imagine it would be a very expedient exit if you found yourself in trouble.

I guess it's a good thing they only average a structure fire every 3 years or so.

[jbrescue]

I remember hearing somewhere about hitting these windows with a CO2 extingusher to "freeze" them, then striking them with something to break them. Not sure how effective this actually is, or how many people carry CO2 extinguishers, because we don't carry them.

This does not work, it was an interesting idea that could have work in theory.

[jbrescue]

I have some videos of tests and training that I may be able to send if you are interested. I got the from Ric Jorge from Palm Beach fire.

[SSFD725]

Here in the Coastal Empire of GA we have these windows in all new construction. Several new hotels in our first due have these windows (which we found on walk throughs and have marked them on our preplans). The part about these windows which has been stated by most already is that they are not marked at all. The only way to really find out is a good wack with an axe or tool of choice and you will know. Currently, my department has adopted a basic SOP for these windows which is to create a purchase hole with a tool of choice and continue until you can make your way through the window.

I am currently open to any and all suggestions anyone may have on here on how to gain entry besides a carbide tip or hand tool.

[jbrescue]

I was able to procur some windows for training from PGT, they sent me ten windows and probably would have sent me more. We tried all sorts of things. A carbide tipped chain saw worked great. Sawzalls, glasmasters and dragon slayers worked well too. Pretty much any tool that you would use to remove a windshield would work. Axes are pretty much useless. There have been several discussions about these windows on Rapidintervention.com and here I think. I was doing research a couple of years a go for a presentation on new bulding materials. The one other issue we found with these windows is that they will burn. We put a couch behind the window like it would be in the house. Once it breach the window, we took the flams source away and the window continued to burn. The laminate layer was burning. It was interesting to say the least. We have pretty much decided that all of these types of windows will be removed if we are working in that area of the structure. If you had to bail, you would be killed.

[kazmanff]

This site does a good job of explaining it.

http://www.oca.gsa.gov/odoc/gsaredes...hter/index.php

[Mike1234]

For more info on Hurricane windows, you can visit :

1. Replacement Windows Tampa and
2. Shutters Tampa

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

If you have to get in through the hurricane windows for a fire, or horizontally vent them ... why not just take the K12 and cut around them?

[BLSboy]

If you have to get in through the hurricane windows for a fire, or horizontally vent them ... why not just take the K12 and cut around them?

As in cut the casement? A lot of our SFDs here are concrete block construction, that a K12 wouldn't penetrate.

[Harris543]

We had a run like that some years ago. Took 1 shot with the halligan aganist the window and it bounced back, took another and the same thing happened. What we did it is take the bucket set it up next to the window and cut the whole thing out. If you wanna put a mask on then put a mask on i think its just a pain in the *** when cutting the window.