1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFxplr326 View Post
    Ok we get the point... Let the horse die already. Stop stirring the pot - Just let it go.
    One time my horse died...and we didn't stop stirring the pot until he was good and done.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    Go put your pussy 2 1/2" lines away kiddies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer343

    By the way KEEPBACK200FEET, you're so dramatic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFxplr326 View Post
    Ok we get the point... Let the horse die already. Stop stirring the pot - Just let it go.
    I have a statement. I know if my Explorers read this thread the first thing they will ask is.....what is a blue light?? They will assume its a Kmart thing, bluelight special! Here in Ohio we run with red lights, if any of my kids read this...other states, Indiana for example, run with bluelights not red. Red is reserved for the police.

    Thats all. Now put this one to sleep boys and girls. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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    Boy o hboy I read a few posts in and I need to reply.

    Number one

    Common sense and research shows that an experienced adult trained driver has a hypertensive reaction when lights and sirens are on. The ehart rate increases, blood pressure rises, adrenaline production is increased and etc. It is still difficult but managemable for experienced drivers to stay calm. Now you add in a 16 yo boy who is excited just to be driving you are looking for a recipe for a major disaster.

    Number two

    I doubt your FD insurance will cover them

    Number three

    If the parents insurance company finds out that there is lights and/or sirens in a teenager's car the insurance will probably be dropped. Even if there is no accident involved. And another thing is if the teenager is in an accident in which they were not running lights and sirens but the insurance company finds out there are lights and sirens on the vehicle they probably will not cover it. If you do not believe me call your insurance agent and ask or read all of the fine print on your policy. Also check with the insurance agent of the fire department.

    Number four

    Light must be visible from 360 degrees around the vehicle and meet certain standards of the NFPA. And if anyone has purchased lights latey you will know that is expensive. The Jrs should be encouraged to save that money for school. Lord knows it practically takes a college degree to become a full time firefighter now.

    Number five.

    This one is going to be a little harsh. Officers, if you are really concerned about the well being and education of your Jrs and simply not them having fun then you will not allow them to have lights and/or sirens. it is best that they watch and learn this at their young age before they are out on there own with them. IT IS DANGEROUS!!!!

    Lastly, we want to make our Jrs as much of the department as our FFs, therefore for everyone's safety noone is allowed to have lights and sirens. In our state even when responding to the station for a call all traffic laws are to be aboeyed regardless if you have lights and sirens. Besides I would rather have my people make it to the station in one piece instead of taking a risk of them getting injured as well. This also seperates the people who only what to look the part from the ones that want to do the part.

    Sorry but that is my and my department's opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cappy05 View Post
    Boy o hboy I read a few posts in and I need to reply.

    Number one

    Common sense and research shows that an experienced adult trained driver has a hypertensive reaction when lights and sirens are on. The ehart rate increases, blood pressure rises, adrenaline production is increased and etc. It is still difficult but managemable for experienced drivers to stay calm. Now you add in a 16 yo boy who is excited just to be driving you are looking for a recipe for a major disaster.

    Number two

    I doubt your FD insurance will cover them

    Number three

    If the parents insurance company finds out that there is lights and/or sirens in a teenager's car the insurance will probably be dropped. Even if there is no accident involved. And another thing is if the teenager is in an accident in which they were not running lights and sirens but the insurance company finds out there are lights and sirens on the vehicle they probably will not cover it. If you do not believe me call your insurance agent and ask or read all of the fine print on your policy. Also check with the insurance agent of the fire department.

    Number four

    Light must be visible from 360 degrees around the vehicle and meet certain standards of the NFPA. And if anyone has purchased lights latey you will know that is expensive. The Jrs should be encouraged to save that money for school. Lord knows it practically takes a college degree to become a full time firefighter now.

    Number five.

    This one is going to be a little harsh. Officers, if you are really concerned about the well being and education of your Jrs and simply not them having fun then you will not allow them to have lights and/or sirens. it is best that they watch and learn this at their young age before they are out on there own with them. IT IS DANGEROUS!!!!

    Lastly, we want to make our Jrs as much of the department as our FFs, therefore for everyone's safety noone is allowed to have lights and sirens. In our state even when responding to the station for a call all traffic laws are to be aboeyed regardless if you have lights and sirens. Besides I would rather have my people make it to the station in one piece instead of taking a risk of them getting injured as well. This also seperates the people who only what to look the part from the ones that want to do the part.

    Sorry but that is my and my department's opinion.
    I just read your post to my husband, the lead advisor of our Explorer Post. He agrees with everything you have written but we were both surprised by the fact that no one on your dept runs lights and sirens while responding to the station for a call. We only have 35 members on our dept and we live in a small community we all are required to run lights and sirens while responding (except the Explorers). I am curious if there is another reason (other than safety) that you dont use lights and sirens? If its to separate the wanna-bes from the dedicated members...that doesnt make sense. Wanna-bes shouldnt be on the dept to begin with, at least thats my opinion. Why waste valuable space on your roster on someone that is just there to "look good in the uniform"? Just curious.
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    Required to use lights?

    Shoot, I cant think of the last time that I used my light to get to a call.
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    Quote Originally Posted by firechick337 View Post
    We only have 35 members on our dept and we live in a small community we all are required to run lights and sirens while responding (except the Explorers)
    Tell that to your auto insurance carrier when you wreck and destroy (or god forbid seriously hurt or kill someone) someone else's car.......
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    Required to use lights?

    Shoot, I cant think of the last time that I used my light to get to a call.
    Well, I didnt say that I use mine. I live 3 blocks from the station, I dont always use mine unless traffic is heavy. In this small town, its not very often. If I am in the outskirts of town I use it. But, yes, our chief does require us to have lights and sirens once we become members of the department.

    I know you dont I BLSboy??!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Tell that to your auto insurance carrier when you wreck and destroy (or god forbid seriously hurt or kill someone) someone else's car.......
    As I mentioned to BLSboy, I dont always run lights and siren. I am required to have them. I live 3 blocks from the station. I use them if traffic is heavy. In this town of 2,000 traffic is rarely heavy. I have no intentions of wrecking or destroying someone elses car. That was a pretty harsh statement considering you dont know me or what I have been through in my lifetime...someone else wrecked and destroyed my car...that is why I am an EMT/Firefighter today. Lifes lessons make me what I am today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Tell that to your auto insurance carrier when you wreck and destroy (or god forbid seriously hurt or kill someone) someone else's car.......
    Yea since obviously the lights and sirens kill people and not the idiot behind the wheel.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Yea since obviously the lights and sirens kill people and not the idiot behind the wheel.
    Thank you!
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    Quote Originally Posted by firechick337 View Post
    Well, I didnt say that I use mine. I live 3 blocks from the station, I dont always use mine unless traffic is heavy. In this small town, its not very often. If I am in the outskirts of town I use it. But, yes, our chief does require us to have lights and sirens once we become members of the department.

    I know you dont I BLSboy??!!
    Your Chief needs his head examined.

    Kudos to you for using your head. An activated fire alarm just aint worth me busting my *** to get there. I'll get there, but 30-60 seconds later. I don't make the truck, I dont make the truck.
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    Running lights and sirens in a POV is up to the dept as to how it is addressed. Here in WI, each dept is different, when I was a volly, only the chief had lights and siren in his POV. My friend's dept up in northen WI, mostly rural, they didn't have lights or sirens, but the City of Shawano Fire dept members are equipped with lights and sirens and they serve a small urban and mostly rural area. Each dept operates differently.

    I'm not going to bash any fire dept member who runs lights and sirens on their POV. I don't operate on their dept and won't even speculate as to why they use them, why they should or shouldn't. That isn't my place, nor really is it anyone else's place on these forums.

    I will state it is my opinion that any member running lights and sirens on a POV has to have an EVOC certification and re-certified annually. Also any member must operate with due regard and within speed limitations as set forth by a depts SOG/P that affects the actual fire apparatus.

    I will further state that there is absolutely, NO place, NO reason and NO way that an explorer, junior, cadet, etc should ever run with lights and sirens in a POV. None at all.
    Last edited by jccrabby3084; 11-10-2008 at 11:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    Your Chief needs his head examined.

    Kudos to you for using your head. An activated fire alarm just aint worth me busting my *** to get there. I'll get there, but 30-60 seconds later. I don't make the truck, I dont make the truck.
    Actually all 8 of the fire and rescue departments in our county run lights and sirens in POVs. So Its not just my department, though I will agree with you that some days my Chief does need his head examined but not for this reason! LOL

    Fulton County is all volunteer. With the exception of a few fulltime paramedics/EMTS on each station. Our department has 35 members, only 2 are fulltime.

    I was an eager young emt at one time but as time has passed I tend to hang back and let the younger emts jump the ambulances so that I can jump a firetruck. They can have their time in the "spotlight" I will be more than happy to step in and help out if they need it. I have 13 Explorers to worry about now, my priorities have changed.

    Have a great day!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jccrabby3084 View Post
    Running lights and sirens in a POV is up to the dept as to how it is addressed. Here in WI, each dept is different, when I was a volly, only the chief had lights and siren in his POV. My friend's dept up in northen WI, mostly rural, they didn't have lights or sirens, but the City of Shawano Fire dept members are equipped with lights and sirens and they serve a small urban and mostly rural area. Each dept operates differently.

    I'm not going to bash any fire dept member who runs lights and sirens on their POV. I don't operate on their dept and won't even speculate as to why they use them, why they should or shouldn't. That isn't my place, nor really is it anyone else's place on these forums.

    I will state it is my opinion that any member running lights and sirens on a POV has to have an EVOC certification and re-certified annually. Also any member must operate with due regard and within speed limitations as set forth by a depts SOG/P that affects the actual fire apparatus.

    I will further state that there is absolutely, NO place, NO reason and NO way that an explorer, junior, cadet, etc should ever run with lights and sirens in a POV. None at all.
    I am sorry but i dont know what an EVOC certification is. Please send me info on it, its prolly something we had better consider unless we already are and it just called something different here.We do have to complete drivers training here within our dept. Our vehicles have to be inspected annually and if they dont pass we cant run with lights and sirens. Our local police dept keeps pretty close tabs on us when we are responding. They have warned all of us that if we do anything reckless they will not have a problem with stopping us. Doesnt matter if we are on our way to a call or not. Luckily I havent been pulled over but I dont drive reckless...seen too many nasty results from idiot drivers trying to get somewhere in a hurry.
    Luckily with our Explorers there is no reason for them to rush to the station if there is a call. They are assigned to one truck and that truck doesnt always roll, though we try to get it out to every call but sometimes its just not necc.
    In that case they can do what the other guys do if they miss the truck...clean the bays. Its all part of the fire service too.
    Last edited by firechick337; 11-11-2008 at 10:28 AM.
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    EVOC=Emergency Vehicle Operators Class.

    Well worth taking!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    EVOC=Emergency Vehicle Operators Class.

    Well worth taking!
    Thanks! Sounds like a plan!
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    Quote Originally Posted by firechick337 View Post
    I just read your post to my husband, the lead advisor of our Explorer Post. He agrees with everything you have written but we were both surprised by the fact that no one on your dept runs lights and sirens while responding to the station for a call. We only have 35 members on our dept and we live in a small community we all are required to run lights and sirens while responding (except the Explorers). I am curious if there is another reason (other than safety) that you dont use lights and sirens? If its to separate the wanna-bes from the dedicated members...that doesnt make sense. Wanna-bes shouldnt be on the dept to begin with, at least thats my opinion. Why waste valuable space on your roster on someone that is just there to "look good in the uniform"? Just curious.
    Jami
    Thank you for reading my post as it is and also thank you for pointing out my errors in what i wrote.

    The key reason for not allowing lights and sirens on POVs is due to personnel safety. The first and foremost thing that a fire department should be concerned with is the safety of its members. That responsibilty starts as soon as the tones drop and even when they do no drop. We have had prospective conadidates not join due to our policy of not allowing lights and sirens. We live in a rural area that is traffic heavy but it is a US highway and many roads. There are not traffic lights in our district. There is no need for us to have lights and sirens on vehicles for this reason. Remember also the codes that must be met for lights and sirens and also in my state lights and sirens do not give you any rights to go through stops signs or etc.. Same goes for any emergency apparatus. It only allows you to cautiosly "Ask permission" or "Request" traffic to let you through. We have toyed with allowing our Chief (Discussion between he and I) to have L&S so he can respond directly but we are still discussing. Also L&S seem to give the FF or JFF the idea they can go directly to the scene. That is not acceptable for us. Someone there without equipment is just a bystander to us.

    I do not recall who brought up EVOC but EXCELLENT point. Some departments do not realize the imortance of this training. Jrs can not be certified in this training. Also departments do not realize that if they have received an AFG for a vehicle of any kind it is required to have EVOC yearly by a certified instructor. Plus it must be documented in SOG/P that your department has this and keep records of it. And only members who receive this training are the only ones that are allowed to drive the apparatus.

    I also do not knock FD who allow members to have lights and sirens. But back to topic Jrs should never have them.

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    I can just imagine that chaos of 15 or so firefighters responding code 3 in their POV to the station ... good grief. I live in a town of approximately 10,000 that borders a town of 60,000 people and our volunteer department has 30 members. We have an SOP that doesn't allow for any lights or sirens in a POV. We make it to the station safely while abiding by all traffic regulations and sometimes getting stuck in traffic.

    Additionally it has weeded out a bunch of "potential" members because they can't have blinky lights in their vehicle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cappy05 View Post
    Thank you for reading my post as it is and also thank you for pointing out my errors in what i wrote.

    The key reason for not allowing lights and sirens on POVs is due to personnel safety. The first and foremost thing that a fire department should be concerned with is the safety of its members. That responsibilty starts as soon as the tones drop and even when they do no drop. We have had prospective conadidates not join due to our policy of not allowing lights and sirens. We live in a rural area that is traffic heavy but it is a US highway and many roads. There are not traffic lights in our district. There is no need for us to have lights and sirens on vehicles for this reason. Remember also the codes that must be met for lights and sirens and also in my state lights and sirens do not give you any rights to go through stops signs or etc.. Same goes for any emergency apparatus. It only allows you to cautiosly "Ask permission" or "Request" traffic to let you through. We have toyed with allowing our Chief (Discussion between he and I) to have L&S so he can respond directly but we are still discussing. Also L&S seem to give the FF or JFF the idea they can go directly to the scene. That is not acceptable for us. Someone there without equipment is just a bystander to us.

    I do not recall who brought up EVOC but EXCELLENT point. Some departments do not realize the imortance of this training. Jrs can not be certified in this training. Also departments do not realize that if they have received an AFG for a vehicle of any kind it is required to have EVOC yearly by a certified instructor. Plus it must be documented in SOG/P that your department has this and keep records of it. And only members who receive this training are the only ones that are allowed to drive the apparatus.

    I also do not knock FD who allow members to have lights and sirens. But back to topic Jrs should never have them.

    Yeppers, the Jrs and Explorers have no business with lights or sirens...my Explorers are chompin' at the bit to get their pagers!! Thats enough for me. I love my kids but lordy my blond hair will be graying fast when they have their pagers and start actually responding...I am truly a mother hen when it comes to my own son and all the other 12 Explorers!!
    Thanks for responding, I love hearing from ffs in other states!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue601 View Post
    I can just imagine that chaos of 15 or so firefighters responding code 3 in their POV to the station ... good grief. I live in a town of approximately 10,000 that borders a town of 60,000 people and our volunteer department has 30 members. We have an SOP that doesn't allow for any lights or sirens in a POV. We make it to the station safely while abiding by all traffic regulations and sometimes getting stuck in traffic.

    Additionally it has weeded out a bunch of "potential" members because they can't have blinky lights in their vehicle.
    But I really love my blinky light Just kidding, my "momma van" only has a dash light so I am not all decked out like the newbies tend to be for their first year. It usually is a fleeting thing on our department, as soon as they see that the "older" members dont deck out their POVs they back off too.
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    My feeling on lights is very simple. If you are trusted to drive the big trucks in emergency mode, why would a POV be any different. If you can't drive the big trucks, you don't need lights. Juniors can't drive the big trucks so they don't need lights. S

    Common sense, due regard and patience is what is called for when driving (in both types of vehicles).

    For the record - I have done EVOC and have a light. I use it occasionally as we sometimes respond direct to the scene if medically trained. (which I am)
    Last edited by TheFNG; 11-13-2008 at 12:42 PM. Reason: Clarification

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFNG View Post
    My feeling on lights is very simple. If you are trusted to drive the big trucks in emergency mode, why would a POV be any different. If you can't drive the big trucks, you don't need lights.

    Common sense, due regard and patience is what is called for when driving (in both types of vehicles).

    For the record - I have done EVOC and have a light. I use it occasionally as we sometimes respond direct to the scene if medically trained. (which I am)
    Are you a Jr?

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    First of all state regulations come into play regarding who has lights and a siren on POV's. It isn't entirely left up to the local chief or department. Besides they can not required you to install them on your POV!


    1. Explorers do not need to have light and or sirens on their POV!

    2. When I worked for my department, I was assigned a sedan, with lights
    and a siren. I seldom used them as all I had in the trunk of the car was
    a 20 ABC extinguisher.

    3. When I was on the Battalion Car, I very seldom ran HOT as again all I
    have was an extinguisher. No reason to beat the companies to the
    scene. Let them arrive, access this situation, lay out, get water flowing.

    The members in charge of the company do a fantastic job without a
    white hat looking over their shoulder or on their backs.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    First of all state regulations come into play regarding who has lights and a siren on POV's. It isn't entirely left up to the local chief or department. Besides they can not required you to install them on your POV!


    1. Explorers do not need to have light and or sirens on their POV!

    2. When I worked for my department, I was assigned a sedan, with lights
    and a siren. I seldom used them as all I had in the trunk of the car was
    a 20 ABC extinguisher.

    3. When I was on the Battalion Car, I very seldom ran HOT as again all I
    have was an extinguisher. No reason to beat the companies to the
    scene. Let them arrive, access this situation, lay out, get water flowing.

    The members in charge of the company do a fantastic job without a
    white hat looking over their shoulder or on their backs.
    Thanks for your input. I really do enjoy reading about how things operate within other departments. I get so confused by some of the "lingo" but I am learning! LOL
    And I agree its nice to not always have a white hat barking at us
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cappy05 View Post
    Are you a Jr?
    Sorry, missed a line I meant to have in. To answer you question - no. Also, since jr's can't drive, they don't need lights which is the line I inadvertly cut out.

    Sorry

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