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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by laddercompany20 View Post
    Forget it...thank you for expressing your concerns- Thank you to Squad1LT for having the understanding and answering my question without a lecture on safety. For those who I upset by posting this- report me to firefighterclosecalls.com...ma ybe Billy himself can drive over and slap the cool east coast mustache off of my face for asking such an insane question. Kepp burring those heads! The fire service doesnt have enough ostriches yet!
    This post proves one thing...you are an arrogant, ignorant slob.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.


  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    It is soooo painfully obvious that this is beyond a simple "research project." If it really were, you would have asked questions such as:
    -When were these devices first used?
    -What companies or departments used them?
    -Did any companies, departments or manufacturers support the use of these devices?
    -Did any mfr's produce these devices as accessories?
    -Are there any recorded LODD's or LODI's linked to these devices?

    Do tell us- what exactly is this "research project" for?

    Whats the difference between an ostrich with his head in the sand, and you with your head up your ***?
    Funny thing is, I know the answers to these questions as I have found in my prior RESEARCH...it is just such a taboo item in the fire service, that no one is able to produce pictures of one, or tell me how it is made- OR who is still using them. I am not slow. I have NO intention on making one of these devices or using it- this is a research project on Fire Service Product Liability Claims. My subtopic is SCBA mfg. lawsuits. It is for a Masters Degree course in Public Administration. Guess I'm not as dumb as a few of the last posts described. I am sorry I didnt explain all of that jibrish in the beginning- quite frankly, I didnt think I had to. All I wanted was little information. I guess Firehouse Forums are not a place to get unbiassed, unemotionally charged replys to legitimate questions. I'm spent. (Thanks, though to all the "Brothers" out there who were quick to judge and personally attcked me. Such a tight group of guys in the service, right? At least thats what your cool T-shirts say)

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by laddercompany20 View Post
    Funny thing is, I know the answers to these questions as I have found in my prior RESEARCH...it is just such a taboo item in the fire service, that no one is able to produce pictures of one, or tell me how it is made- OR who is still using them. I am not slow. I have NO intention on making one of these devices or using it- this is a research project on Fire Service Product Liability Claims. My subtopic is SCBA mfg. lawsuits. It is for a Masters Degree course in Public Administration. Guess I'm not as dumb as a few of the last posts described. I am sorry I didnt explain all of that jibrish in the beginning- quite frankly, I didnt think I had to. All I wanted was little information. I guess Firehouse Forums are not a place to get unbiassed, unemotionally charged replys to legitimate questions. I'm spent. (Thanks, though to all the "Brothers" out there who were quick to judge and personally attcked me. Such a tight group of guys in the service, right? At least thats what your cool T-shirts say)
    As I said earlier...

    This post proves one thing...you are an arrogant, ignorant slob.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by laddercompany20 View Post
    Funny thing is, I know the answers to these questions as I have found in my prior RESEARCH...it is just such a taboo item in the fire service, that no one is able to produce pictures of one, or tell me how it is made- OR who is still using them. I am not slow. I have NO intention on making one of these devices or using it- this is a research project on Fire Service Product Liability Claims. My subtopic is SCBA mfg. lawsuits. It is for a Masters Degree course in Public Administration. Guess I'm not as dumb as a few of the last posts described. I am sorry I didnt explain all of that jibrish in the beginning- quite frankly, I didnt think I had to. All I wanted was little information. I guess Firehouse Forums are not a place to get unbiassed, unemotionally charged replys to legitimate questions. I'm spent. (Thanks, though to all the "Brothers" out there who were quick to judge and personally attcked me. Such a tight group of guys in the service, right? At least thats what your cool T-shirts say)

    For such a "smart" guy you seem to lack basic knowledge of how an internet forum works.

    Perhaps after a few more posts you will realize that when you post something for everyone to read, you might actually find that not everyone agrees with you. It is alot like the firehouse kitchen table.

    Now you can act like an internet tough guy and sling insults, or you can accept that fact and actually contribute something without beating your chest.

    Up to you.

    Good luck with your "research".

  5. #45
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    Whats with all the hysteria? The guy asked a simple question and the next thing you know you guys are comparing him to a mad bomber... Dynamite? anfo bomb? Are you serious??? What a bunch of drama queens.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF View Post
    Whats with all the hysteria? The guy asked a simple question and the next thing you know you guys are comparing him to a mad bomber... Dynamite? anfo bomb? Are you serious??? What a bunch of drama queens.
    Read the posts carefully. People are not that upset with what he was asking. They are upset about his arrogant ignorant and condescending attitude about the people who provided the information. He is ****ed because it wasn't what he wanted to hear so he called people out. That is what the issue is.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF View Post
    Whats with all the hysteria? The guy asked a simple question and the next thing you know you guys are comparing him to a mad bomber... Dynamite? anfo bomb? Are you serious??? What a bunch of drama queens.
    Finally...someone in my corner. Boy the fire service sure has changed over the past decade or so. Thanks- a shot out to my Chicago guys out there! So much emotion...drama everywhere. Good lord help us.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Hypothetical situation.

    A member wearing an SCBA with an unauthorized modification is involved in an LODD or LODI. A subsequent investigation (of which we all know there will be at least two or three) reveals that the SCBA was modified against FD regulations and is contrary to the FD's Respiratory Protection Plan.

    The possible results are a compromise of the benefits due the member or his family. It could also result in hefty sanctions against the FD for allowing or condoning this activity.

    Another possible result is the possibility of failure of the SCBA. Even if the failure was caused by something completely unrelated to the unauthorized modification, any claim against the manufacturer will be voided by the unauthorized modification. It probably also would void the warranty on the unit.

    As a fire officer, my primary job is to instill discipline in the members of the company and to enforce the FD's regulations. There are undoubtedly going to be provisions in the FD's regulations that people don't like. It really doesn't matter. It's still the fire officers job to enforce them ALL the time.

    For arguments sake, I'll concede that maybe there are some valid reasons for such a modification to the SCBA. If so, then three things should happen.

    1. The modification should be completed to all SCBA by a qualified technician
    2. All members should be trained on their use
    3. The FD Respiratory Protection should be amended to include the use of this item

    If you do not want to include them officially, that may be a very telling fact.
    Does this mean every guy that gets killed in a tanker rollover while not wearing his seat-belt gets denied LODD benefits?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geinandputitout View Post
    Does this mean every guy that gets killed in a tanker rollover while not wearing his seat-belt gets denied LODD benefits?
    OK. How in the world would you get that from my post?

    Would not wearing a seat belt in a tanker rollover be an unauthorized modification of the unit? Would not wearing a seat belt void the tanker warranty?

    I realize that you are one of those who enjoy trying to fight on every one of my posts, but this is absurd.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by laddercompany20 View Post
    Funny thing is, I know the answers to these questions as I have found in my prior RESEARCH...it is just such a taboo item in the fire service, that no one is able to produce pictures of one, or tell me how it is made- OR who is still using them. I am not slow. I have NO intention on making one of these devices or using it- this is a research project on Fire Service Product Liability Claims. My subtopic is SCBA mfg. lawsuits. It is for a Masters Degree course in Public Administration. Guess I'm not as dumb as a few of the last posts described. I am sorry I didnt explain all of that jibrish in the beginning- quite frankly, I didnt think I had to. All I wanted was little information. I guess Firehouse Forums are not a place to get unbiassed, unemotionally charged replys to legitimate questions. I'm spent. (Thanks, though to all the "Brothers" out there who were quick to judge and personally attcked me. Such a tight group of guys in the service, right? At least thats what your cool T-shirts say)

    Here's a clue - post the answers that you have to those questions and maybe, just maybe, people might take you seriously. Its a valid concern and I am sure many here would be interested in the answers to the above questions.

    Otherwise - it sounds like you want to make one and need an instruction manual.

    For the record - I didn't know these things existed before this thread.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geinandputitout View Post
    Does this mean every guy that gets killed in a tanker rollover while not wearing his seat-belt gets denied LODD benefits?

    Not that it matters to this thread, but, a numbered notice has come down from my chief engineer (the big man), that any member injured in a MVA, and not wearing a seat belt WILL be denied any coverage by the city workman's comp. Said notice has been signed off by the city attorney, appealed by our union attorney, and stands as is. Turns out, it's kind of hard to fight against a written state law.

    In my city, I would say yes, that if you were killed in a roll over, (no tankers here) you would be denied your benefits.
    You want to be stupid and wear a cheater? By all means, feel free.

    Chicago, you make many great points, on this case though, you are way off base.
    I also felt this guy was asking how to make a cheater in order to use, call it the "spirit of the post" if you will. That terminology works in making the city abide by our CBA wording, it maybe should apply here.

    All that needs to be done is to make a quick trip to the local dive shop, a little mouthpiece fits great on an MSA regulator, just like the Scott regulator. (It's been done here) There is no need for drilling on a face piece, a little piece of rubber is all that is needed.
    However, I hate how my eyes hurt after taking a beating from smoke, and they take a beating.
    Also, remember to not breathe thru your nose and to keep a good seal with your mouth, otherwise you will pay a price.
    Yes, it is quick, convenient, and so on. To advocate it's use is something that I will never do. It's both stupid and dangerous, and anyone who says otherwise is lying.

    Try asking your workman's comp how they feel on the use of a cheater, then see how the benefit payout would be, were you to be killed wearing a cheater and your brothers were unable to cover for you in todays day and age.

    Call me a safety sally, but common sense has to play a part at some point, doesn't it?
    Last edited by jasper45; 09-11-2008 at 06:36 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    Not that it matters to this thread, but, a numbered notice has come down from my chief engineer (the big man), that any member injured in a MVA, and not wearing a seat belt WILL be denied any coverage by the city workman's comp. Said notice has been signed off by the city attorney, appealed by our union attorney, and stands as is. Turns out, it's kind of hard to fight against a written state law.

    In my city, I would say yes, that if you were killed in a roll over, (no tankers here) you would be denied your benefits.
    You want to be stupid and wear a cheater? By all means, feel free.

    Chicago, you make many great points, on this case though, you are way off base.
    I also felt this guy was asking how to make a cheater in order to use, call it the "spirit of the post" if you will. That terminology works in making the city abide by our CBA wording, it maybe should apply here.

    All that needs to be done is to make a quick trip to the local dive shop, a little mouthpiece fits great on an MSA regulator, just like the Scott regulator. (It's been done here) There is no need for drilling on a face piece, a little piece of rubber is all that is needed.
    However, I hate how my eyes hurt after taking a beating from smoke, and they take a beating.
    Also, remember to not breathe thru your nose and to keep a good seal with your mouth, otherwise you will pay a price.
    Yes, it is quick, convenient, and so on. To advocate it's use is something that I will never do. It's both stupid and dangerous, and anyone who says otherwise is lying.

    Try asking your workman's comp how they feel on the use of a cheater, then see how the benefit payout would be, were you to be killed wearing a cheater and your brothers were unable to cover for you in todays day and age.

    Call me a safety sally, but common sense has to play a part at some point, doesn't it?
    Okay, YOU are a Safety Sally!!

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by laddercompany20 View Post
    ...It is for a Masters Degree course in Public Administration. Guess I'm not as dumb as a few of the last posts described...
    Depends on the school, I guess.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    OK. How in the world would you get that from my post?

    Would not wearing a seat belt in a tanker rollover be an unauthorized modification of the unit? Would not wearing a seat belt void the tanker warranty?

    I realize that you are one of those who enjoy trying to fight on every one of my posts, but this is absurd.
    Relax jorge. I'm posing a question.

    As jasper45 pointed out, this is a real question in some places.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geinandputitout View Post
    Relax jorge. I'm posing a question.

    As jasper45 pointed out, this is a real question in some places.
    It should be a real question in all places. It's not the same thing.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    It should be a real question in all places. It's not the same thing.
    Fair enough, question in all places.

  17. #57
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    Jasper: Thank you for your concern, information and insight on benefit coverage. I also appreciate the fact that you recognize they are being used and you had the "courage" to answer my origional question- How do you make a cheater. I thank you, respect you as a professional firefighter and am thankful for your information. I am now goin gto step back and watch the drama unfold.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by laddercompany20 View Post
    Jasper: Thank you for your concern, information and insight on benefit coverage. I also appreciate the fact that you recognize they are being used and you had the "courage" to answer my origional question- How do you make a cheater. I thank you, respect you as a professional firefighter and am thankful for your information. I am now goin gto step back and watch the drama unfold.
    Any drama here-you created.

    We ALL recognoze they are being used. That's why we are almost all universally opposed to their use.

    I hope we don't read about you as a statistic after you make one of these and try to use it to show what a tough guy you are.


    Jasper, I don't believe that anyone here thinks you are a safety sally. BTW, love the avatar.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by laddercompany20 View Post
    Jasper: Thank you for your concern, information and insight on benefit coverage. I also appreciate the fact that you recognize they are being used and you had the "courage" to answer my origional question- How do you make a cheater. I thank you, respect you as a professional firefighter and am thankful for your information. I am now goin gto step back and watch the drama unfold.

    "Courage"???

    Are you even a firefighter?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    "Courage"???

    Are you even a firefighter?
    Don't you friggin' pay attention?

    He's a fire fighter who is going for his Masters Degree. His MASTERS DEGREE!

    Why, he'll compare his IQ to ours any day.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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