Thread: New 32-2001

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    Default New 32-2001

    Does anyone have any information about the new 32-2001. I have heard that it was signed off by a general and was being sent to publishing for a final draft. Some of the things that are being stated by some of the chiefs is that we as AF firefighters will no longer be able to complete certifications no more that one level above our current job. Also that 60 hor workweek jobs may be going to 40. That the uniform allowance is defined diffrent than our current uniform AFI. ECT does anyone have a copy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert6430 View Post
    Does anyone have any information about the new 32-2001. I have heard that it was signed off by a general and was being sent to publishing for a final draft. Some of the things that are being stated by some of the chiefs is that we as AF firefighters will no longer be able to complete certifications no more that one level above our current job. Also that 60 hor workweek jobs may be going to 40. That the uniform allowance is defined diffrent than our current uniform AFI. ECT does anyone have a copy?
    i've reviewed a draft of it. i know the certification thing is along those lines, however, i'm not too sure about the details. there are alot of changes.

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    Default Here's the link


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    Default WOW is all I can say

    Does anyone see something wrong with this? Has this also happend with the Navy and ARMY?

    Title 7 of the Civil Rights Act mandates EEO. " Fire officers who refuse to allow an employee the opportunity to develop his of her abilities and advance his or her career are guilty of an Equal Employment Opportunity Program violation."

    "3.4.4. Certification in the FESCS will be granted only for skills required for the current duty position and the next-higher position to which an individual may be promoted (Exception: When directed by the Fire Chief, vehicle crew members may accomplish Fire Inspector II certifications to allow “crew
    inspections” of facilities as appropriate). Certifications will not be issued for training or testing more than five years old. Command Fire Chiefs may approve waivers based on unique mission needs. All MAJCOM approved waivers will be included in the individual certification package when submitted
    to AFCESA/CEXF for consideration."

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    Default Certification change

    This has actually been in the works for several years. I undersatnd how some very motivated folks would be upset. However, do you really think A1C Smith with less than 2 years in needs Fire Officer 3??

    We'll have to see how it plays out once it's fully implemented. I personally don't think it will have a major impact.

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeMZ191 View Post
    This has actually been in the works for several years. I undersatnd how some very motivated folks would be upset. However, do you really think A1C Smith with less than 2 years in needs Fire Officer 3??

    We'll have to see how it plays out once it's fully implemented. I personally don't think it will have a major impact.

    Joe
    While "Needing" FO3, probably not, wanting it to better himself, then why not??? This isn't just occuring in the DOD that FF's are being prevented from getting educated (although it seems more prevalant in the DOD). And while not the norm, what about A1C Smith whi has ?? years on the job as a civilain prior to coming in the military!! Some units would love to have that, some don't care because they pull the rank card.

    Not busting your balls, just another way to look at it as I've personnaly been involved in both the Military and Civilan side of the DOD "training", and see things a little different since I was the E-4 going for all my 2's way before anyone else.
    A Fire Chief has ONLY 1 JOB and that's to take care of his fireman. EVERYTHING else falls under this.

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    Default My take on 32-2001

    I guess I interpret the regulation change a little different than others. The new 32-2001 says that people will not be granted certification under the FESCS. Most training chiefs will not be able to enroll Airmen in courses higher than their next skill level; this is by virtue of the AFIDAL and Air University rules. Civilian firefighters may complete any CDC’s they like, since most are voluntary courses. The exception here is that they would not be able to obtain the certifications through the FESCS.

    Lets get down to brass tacks….The majority of people who are upset with this change are the ones that go away to schools (hopefully good schools like MFRI and Alabama Fire College – not Bucks County or the other “certificate mills). Most of these folks are working towards career progression which is a good thing. Others are using the ProBoard and IFSAC systems to gain all the certifications out there so they can move as fast as they can. The 32-2001 does not say that you can not go to a school; it just says that you will not be granted certification under FESCS.

    Working for the Army, I have seen the results of quickly acquiring certifications with no experience in the position. In late 1999, I was a GS-06 Engineer working on my Officer/Instructor/Inspector I’s so I could make Captain. I watched 6 or 7 of my fellow drivers go away to get their Officer/Instructor/Inspector I’s, II’s and III’s. Now, this was a personal choice and I don’t fault them for it, but when it came time to do the job they were promoted to do (because of their certification levels) they had a difficult time being competent in their ability to do so.

    Just some food for thought….

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert6430 View Post
    Title 7 of the Civil Rights Act mandates EEO. " Fire officers who refuse to allow an employee the opportunity to develop his of her abilities and advance his or her career are guilty of an Equal Employment Opportunity Program violation."
    The DoD is not violating any laws by not issuing a DoD certificate within the five years as stated in the new AFI. DoD / AFCESA are allowing everyone the opporunity to pursue their career progression by allowing each individual to enroll and complete the respective courses (i.e. End of Course Exam). Where the confusion of any EEO violation comes into play is the actual certificaton itself.

    A1C Snuffy can easily go out and pay for an Officer III Certification from any acredidated agency thus developing his or her career acheivements. Furthermore, A1C Snuffy can be enrolled in a higher level course (i.e. Officer I, II, or III). However, the DoD will not recoginize that certificate through normal certification or reciprocity if he is not filling a position requiring that certifiction. A driver / operator does not have any need for an Officer III certification, hence he will not receive the DoD certification although he may have received it outside the DoD system.

    Just because the DoD does not recoginize the certificate until the individual is assigned to a position requiring a particular certification, that individual is still progressing in their career should they received a certificate from an outside agency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kferrara2002 View Post
    The DoD is not violating any laws by not issuing a DoD certificate within the five years as stated in the new AFI. DoD / AFCESA are allowing everyone the opporunity to pursue their career progression by allowing each individual to enroll and complete the respective courses (i.e. End of Course Exam). Where the confusion of any EEO violation comes into play is the actual certificaton itself.

    A1C Snuffy can easily go out and pay for an Officer III Certification from any acredidated agency thus developing his or her career acheivements. Furthermore, A1C Snuffy can be enrolled in a higher level course (i.e. Officer I, II, or III). However, the DoD will not recoginize that certificate through normal certification or reciprocity if he is not filling a position requiring that certifiction. A driver / operator does not have any need for an Officer III certification, hence he will not receive the DoD certification although he may have received it outside the DoD system.

    Just because the DoD does not recoginize the certificate until the individual is assigned to a position requiring a particular certification, that individual is still progressing in their career should they received a certificate from an outside agency.
    The new rule does exactly what it was intended to do. Keep people from being certification hounds.

    It is a proven fact (somewhere), that you should only go to schools that involve the job that you are already doing or will be changing to soon. If you take these schools (which most that I have taken, are pretty knowledge intensive) without performing the knowledge learned from them, you will soon forget this knowledge and be left with a "Knowledge-less Certification". In this case, when you "DO" get the promotion, you will need a refresher course to get up to speed with your new job.

    Of course, this is my personal opinion from my own experiences and from talking to others on this subject.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

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    FIRENUT....

    I totally agree with the knowledge intensiveness of the upper level courses i.e. Officer III. Assuming the younger personnel keep up on their knowledge, simply going thrugh a refresher course should not be an issue. What is the issue and you have pointed toward it somewhat, is that with everything the military fire service throws at us lately, when do we have the time to not only take the advanced courses, but keep proficient on the basics? I'm all for career progression and advancement, but the basics must be achieved and retained prior to allowing someone to move to the next level.

    That's why at my particular base, we have a "probie" program. When the young troop comes from Tech-School, they are enrolled in a "probie" program learning the basics of becoming a firefighter. Goodfellow does a good job at getting them through the baby steps, but each department is responsible for sitting each individual down and explaining what their job actually entails. Now that AFCESA has increased the minimum upgrade training time from 15 to 20 months; yes that's right 20 months before new firefighters can receive their "5-level", they have to meet the requirements of not only AFCESA but the department as well. My fire chief is tired of the young troops wanting the "cool" classes such as Rescue Tech I , II while they cannot perform the basics, hence the "probie" program. Learn the basics and show dedication and desire and you shall be rewarded by being sent or trained in an upper level course.

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