1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jccrabby3084 View Post
    I disagree. It isn't the fact of sticking up for Explorers, but what you are sticking up for. In this case, it isn't the fact his pager went off, it is how he presents this situation to a public forum. Coming on saying stuff about the manager like "That's why they work in fast food and not Emergency Services" and "I find the managers to be ungrateful". That is a poor attitude and then we don't have any facts except he got kicked out of the restaurant. You don't come onto a public forum and post the restaurant's contact info and have a call to arms. Sorry I will never stick up for any person like this.

    It is fine to stick up for someone if you believe they are right. Not really the case here. Most times an Explorer should be grateful to have the opportunity to learn about the fire service and the job. However, when you come onto a public forum and make statements like this or say that Explorers, etc should carry pagers, or respond emergent in POV's have lights on POV's, do firefighting, or what have you, I do disagree. They are there to learn, that is the primary job. In this case, hopefully the OP learned you don't make a call to arms for an incident where all the facts are unknown, let alone bash the person who gave him the boot.
    I completely agree with you but more of what I was alluding to was what NDVFD33 said himself; most of the time everyone is on Explorer "Auto-bash". Not just in this thread, but in almost every single one. And if you dont agree, please go read some of the other threads.

  2. #77
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    You're doing it right now. Everything you are saying you would do and he should have done.... HE DID. It beeped. He silenced it. What the hell else do you expect him to do?

    You are all saying "we aren't getting the full story". He has presented his full story. If you chose not to read it, then recuse yourselves from making uninformed commentary. If you actually read it and choose not to believe it, present to reason WHY you don't believe it. Just saying "I don't believe him because... because" doesn't cut it. You are doing nothing to add to the discussion and NOTHING to help him or anyone else improve himself or his actions that you disagree with.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    You guys spend a lot of time telling young people on this forum to "shut up and learn". Not a bad suggestion, however it is pretty dead-ended. I have suggestion for all of you with the shut-up-and-learn attitude...

    SHUT UP AND TEACH.

    If you (meaning anyone here) knows so much better how a junior should have handled a situation, try constructively explaining/teaching him how rather than flaming them for doing it wrong. It feels a lot more rewarding helping and teaching these kids than it does to simply make fun of them and bash them. You should try it sometime.

    Maybe I'm too nice. But my way seems to work quite well based on the success of our department's explorer post.

    (the context of this post is in general, not specific to this thread)
    Last edited by nmfire; 09-18-2008 at 11:36 PM.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    You're doing it right now. Everything you are saying you would do and he should have done.... HE DID. It beeped. He silenced it. What the hell else do you expect him to do?

    You are all saying "we aren't getting the full story". He has presented his full story. If you chose not to read it, then recuse yourselves from making uninformed commentary. If you actually read it and choose not to believe it, present to reason WHY you don't believe it. Just saying "I don't believe him because... because" doesn't cut it. You are doing nothing to add to the discussion and NOTHING to help him or anyone else improve himself or his actions that you disagree with.
    Reason being is none of that is grounds to be kicked out. Cellphones, beepers, pagers, etc go off all the time and you don't have people getting kicked out of a McDonalds. So for some reason a fire pager goes off, for 5 seconds, and that is grounds for getting kicked out? No. There is more to the story.

    As for helping him improve his actions, it has been explained already. Keep the volume down. If the pager goes off for a test page, say sorry to the folks around you and turn it down. If a manager comes and asks you to turn it off or leave, say you will turn it down, don't be cocky about it, which I'm guessing was the case here. If your asked to leave, leave, don't wage a call to arms on a public forum. Lesson learned.
    The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATFDFF View Post
    I completely agree with you but more of what I was alluding to was what NDVFD33 said himself;
    What was it that I said???
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    You guys spend a lot of time telling young people on this forum to "shut up and learn". Not a bad suggestion, however it is pretty dead-ended. I have suggestion for all of you with the shut-up-and-learn attitude...

    SHUT UP AND TEACH.

    If you (meaning anyone here) knows so much better how a junior should have handled a situation, try constructively explaining/teaching him how rather than flaming them for doing it wrong. It feels a lot more rewarding helping and teaching these kids than it does to simply make fun of them and bash them. You should try it sometime.

    Maybe I'm too nice. But my way seems to work quite well based on the success of our department's explorer post.

    I'll agree with teaching and constructive explainations and teaching, but only to those who are willing to learn it. The reason you see such bashing is someone comes out with an attitude and that doesn't fly to well anywhere. There is teaching and there is also common sense. If you really want to learn you don't come on a public forum with an attitude as we saw here.

    Also remember this is a firehouse forum with firefighters. Many times these kids are getting a taste of how it can be in the station. I have no problem having an Explorer or new firefighter come up and ask how to do a technique or learn about a piece of equipment. It is much different when they come up with a smart aleck attitude saying they already know this or that. So when they are called on it and they don't know, I don't feel bad for them for screwing up, because that can also humble them.

    As it is, we see way too often a thread on where Explorers, cadets, etc should be allowed to do this or that on the fireground, should leave school for calls, should have lights on a POV etc. So when it is said they are there to learn, you get replies like "how do you learn if you don't experience things". You know there are many soldiers in the military who never experienced combat, but when Iraq and Afghanistan happened, they still knew what to do from their training. Same thing here. An Explorer, cadet, etc has their only job as learning, not working on a fireground, if they are allowed to then so be it.

    What starts out as perhaps a simple question like the "lights" thread here, turns nasty because many have been through it before and had to put up with the attitude. All that could be avoided had the person posting done a little searching on the forums and seen their answe has been answered before. Doing a little work on your own goes a long ways too. However, we see too many today who feel things should be just handed to them, be it information, or a job. There is a difference from learning because you really want to learn, vs hoping someone is just going to hand the information to you.
    The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.

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    Maybe I'm too nice. But my way seems to work quite well based on the success of our department's explorer post.
    The military isnt very nice but they are pretty succesful at building people of character.

    On our post, no one is very nice if you screw up, you may get a nice talking to from one person, but for every one nice talking tot you will get a few semi hostile ones like you would recieve on here.

    If I were in NCVCadets shoes and posted this instead of him, my *** would be grass. Our asst chief regularly peruses this forum (most of your probably recognize him by name) and you can bet that i would be recieving a phone call probably before he finished reading the first sentence. Do I think that is an appropriate response? Hell yes I do. It is extremely unprofessional and immature of someone to come on a public forum, representing their department (disclaimer or not), and whine about a situation like this.

    The explorer program is not designed to train people to be firefighters. It is to expose teenagers to the career field. The practical lessons one learns in the explorers are important, CPR, etc. they could save someone's life. But in the end, what the explorer program tries to convey to its members is a sense of professionalism, maturity,and respect (among other things). The entire boy scout program is like that. After recieving my Eagle Scout award I realized that the subliminal lessons that I learned will stick with me much longer than how to make a rope bridge. Respect for others and esp. elders, perserverance, and time management are all life lessons that should be grasped. (among other things such as the scout oath and law)

    Our explorer program is pretty sucessful as well. We send our paperwork (rules/regs, sop/sogs, ride along forms, etc) to dozens of posts across the country each year. It doesnt take being nice to accomplish this. I am not saying that being nice does not work, but by being serious, professional, mature, and disciplined, alot of things can be accomplished too.

    Too many members of my generation are petrified of being disciplined or having someone not agree with their point of view on a topic. The may even become enraged that no one else sees something their way.

    Example- Our local high school has about 750 students give or take. Their football team is usually fairly competitive and is usually a decent sized team. This year, the entire football program started out with around 45 kids in freshman, jv, and varsity teams. Today, they have 22. Their coach says that they are losing players because the players do not want to be disciplined. Whether it is for talking back, dropping a pass, or missing a block is irrelevant. The kids literally up and quit when the coach tells them to line up for sprints. Just take off their helmets, go in, clean out their lockers, and are gone. Some of these kids are even raising hell about how "mean" their coach is, or "how much of a (insert chosen expletive here) the coach is. I mean how can someone think hes gonna make me run for dropping a pass. what a ********. He aint gonna make me do $h!t!"

    I know I may be preaching to the choir, but if you want something bad enough, you have to be disciplined and determined to get it. You do not act like a four year old when someone does or tells you something that you do not like.

    The explorer program and boy scouts as a whole try to instill good values in kids that these days are often forgotten. So having a fair amount of discipline is, I believe, an extremely good thing.
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    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    You guys spend a lot of time telling young people on this forum to "shut up and learn". Not a bad suggestion, however it is pretty dead-ended. I have suggestion for all of you with the shut-up-and-learn attitude...

    SHUT UP AND TEACH.

    If you (meaning anyone here) knows so much better how a junior should have handled a situation, try constructively explaining/teaching him how rather than flaming them for doing it wrong. It feels a lot more rewarding helping and teaching these kids than it does to simply make fun of them and bash them. You should try it sometime.

    Maybe I'm too nice. But my way seems to work quite well based on the success of our department's explorer post.

    (the context of this post is in general, not specific to this thread)


    awesome post, this forum (i mean firehouse forums) is full of people looking for a reason to bash someone else

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    Sit back. Read a bunch of these posts. Think about it.

    I'm starting to see why we (the fire service) have such a hard time recruiting and keeping new people.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    awesome post, this forum (i mean firehouse forums) is full of people looking for a reason to bash someone else
    Hello, Pot? This is Kettle calling. You're black!"
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  11. #86
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    I'm still waiting to see what I said that got to ATFDFF

    FWD, I must agree with you on your last post as well.
    Last edited by ndvfdff33; 09-19-2008 at 08:10 PM.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    ya know, at this hour, McDonalds sounds really good. I just hope I don't get kicked out! :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikie333 View Post
    ya know, at this hour, McDonalds sounds really good. I just hope I don't get kicked out! :-)
    A couple days ago a couple of us from work were out on the road and we stopped into a Rotten Ronnie's for some din din. We got the boot because the manager didn't want "baby killers" in his restaurant. Apparently he is against the wars overseas. Thankfully we got out of there pretty quick because he almost got a right hook from one of the guys(of course being professional we didn't. ). That would make a hell of a headline though. "Soldiers knock out McDonald's manger". Just give the Canadian public something more to bitch and moan about. Anyways Rant off.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    My friend works in that McDonalds. From what I've heard from him and his parents, his boss is a real jerk. So that is why she probably said that.

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    Let me ruin this perfectly fun thread with some more logic .

    Let me start by saying that if I know nothing else about the original poster, his first post showed an arrogance and sense of entitlement that would be laughable if it came from an actual firefighter, much less a cadet.

    I also believe that this was not a "5 seconds and the pager was turned off" scenario, based no the original post.

    Now for some thoughts:

    1. Maybe the Manager IS just that big of a jerk. We all know of the wonderful people who march on city hall year after year, complaining that our sirens wake them up at night, and requesting that we run Code 1 or take a 3 mile detour to avoid waking them up at night. He could be just that big of a jerk and believe that unless you are saving his ***** or his belongings, then he should not have to be bothered by anything related to the Emergency Services.

    2. Maybe the Cadets, or the members of the Fire Department as a whole, have a bad reputation at that particular McDonald's. Are the cadets often eating at the McDonald's with their pagers turned up to the max, disturbing other patrons? Has the manager gotten complaints by other customers about having to listen to graphic call descriptions over the pagers. Are the members of the fire department at that McDonald's often enough that the manager is able to recognize the tone? For all we know the manager could have heard the tone and thought to himself "Oh no, not that $hit again" and was expecting that HIS restaurant would be filled with over the top "I need to feel important" radio traffic. So he nipped it in the butt.


    And to the original poster: A real man does the job because he loves doing the job, not because he needs to make himself feel important.

    If the manager ****ed you off then do the mature thing: Take your money elsewhere. Spending your money somewhere more "wacker" friendly will teach him a better lesson than ranting on an internet board. Who knows, if enough of you and your wacker friends go to Burger King he might even become a member of your department to get your business back!

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by NCVCadet View Post
    First off:

    Im Volunteer
    It was a test not an open channel.
    I have a minitor II SV so i can't put it on vibrate
    My concern is for the active duty firefighters and EMT's. Will they get kicked out too?
    Now kid you know that ant burger king you cant have it your way.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic1911 View Post
    For the second time tonight, I have to ask is this for real.
    No, of course not............
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Let me ruin this perfectly fun thread with some more logic .

    Who knows, if enough of you and your wacker friends go to Burger King he might even become a member of your department to get your business back!


    Hey,recruiting people who have been seen as pains in the axes can be "a good thing",as my Aunt Martha likes to say.I even tried recruiting a news reporter who was famous around Paducah for getting in the way on calls.It didn't work because like I say,the worst thing about being a firefighter is you can't usually discuss it in public.He just wanted the inside scoop until he learned that side of the coin.
    Getting a restaurant manager on can end up benefiting the department and not just because he can score food for rehab or the guys coming off a call.
    In his head should be knowledge of the kitchen area layout and how the restaurant's fire extinguisher system works that can be used when the place goes flambe'.You never know when someone who actually knows the equipment because he uses it every day can come in handy.(kinda like being a firefighter and knowing how to use a pager correctly,right?)

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Who knows, if enough of you and your wacker friends go to Burger King he might even become a member of your department to get your business back!


    That pic is priceless!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    That pic is priceless!
    Clowns are creepy
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSVFDst6FF View Post
    Now kid you know that ant burger king you cant have it your way.
    I went to Mcdonalds one time, back when their motto was "we do it all for you." Well, the girl behind the counter wouldnt do any of it for me, so I had to go to Burger King and get it "my way."
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I went to Mcdonalds one time, back when their motto was "we do it all for you." Well, the girl behind the counter wouldnt do any of it for me, so I had to go to Burger King and get it "my way."
    Now that's funny right there!
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Yet another reason why Jr's should not have pagers. If you have a pager and there was a call, why didn't you go? Jr's should be learning the ropes, not going on calls anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Clowns are creepy
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitzjr11 View Post
    Yet another reason why Jr's should not have pagers. If you have a pager and there was a call, why didn't you go? Jr's should be learning the ropes, not going on calls anyway.
    There wasn't a call. He clearly stated it was a test page.

    Quote Originally Posted by NCVCadet View Post
    First off:

    Im Volunteer
    It was a test not an open channel.
    I have a minitor II SV so i can't put it on vibrate
    My concern is for the active duty firefighters and EMT's. Will they get kicked out too?


    By the way... On the subject of clowns...
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