1. #1
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    Question HazMat / Rescue Walk-in Purchase

    I have been a driver & engineer for (5) yrs. I driven a little of everything; I have never had to purchase one. As luck would have it, I have a collateral assignemnt to work with our administrative team to purchase a new Rescue-Combo Walk-in apparatus.

    We service a heavy Industrial area and need a rig that suits the environment. I am very (very) green on a purchase. Looking for some feedback and comments on manufacturers, features, do's and don'ts of buying.

    E-one Combo and Pierce are leading. Unit is to be outfitted for HazMat and Tech Rescue responses. Look forward to any feedback, thanks

    Body Style: Walk-in small Command w/ Non-walk in storage aft of command
    E-One Combiniation Resuce is leading
    General Assignments include:
    - Hazmat Containment, Clean-up and Decon
    - Small Cammand Center w/ remote camera sys.
    - Technical Rescue (High Angle, Confined Space and Machine extrication)
    - Tripods, SKEDs, Ropes, etc.
    - Cascade and Fill system
    - Hurst Tool Set (combo, trimo p/u and Jaw)
    - Paratech (3) bag air bag system + struts
    - K-12 Saw and misc. hand tools
    - Triage and Rehab and RIT Support for an Engine Pumper.

    Booster line woould be nice for HazMat support (Just don't think it'll fit.)

    Again looking for some feedback.

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    Default Look beyond the Features.....

    All I'm gonna say here is be careful! Both mentioned manufacturers are in SEVERE financial distress. The big "P" stock has just been downgraded to junk bond status with D&B, and is pushing buyers to pre-pay. Let me know if you want more details...

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    Exclamation Beware of company financials!

    Here's a commonly overlooked fact: A company's financial status WILL directly affect a purchaser. Several of the companies out there are experiencing major financial troubles. The big "P" has been downgraded to junk bond status by Dunn & Bradstreet as they are about $3 billion in the hole. They are pushing people to prepay which only spells trouble. E-One has been sold, nuff said. What happens if the manufacturer you buy from folds? Where does your warranty go? Or even worse, you order your truck and 6 months later find out you ain't gettin' it (which happened with American LaFrance this year)! Here's where you will regret the commitment, or even worse-THE DEADLY PREPAYMENT!!

    Let me know if you want some hard data to back this up, or can further help. PLEASE, take this seriously!!

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    Default Please take it serious.

    (Had trouble getting this reply posted, sorry if it's duplicated)

    Here's a commonly overlooked fact: A company's financial status WILL directly affect a purchaser. Several of the companies out there are experiencing major financial troubles. The big "P" has been downgraded to junk bond status by Dunn & Bradstreet as they are about $3 billion in the hole. They are pushing people to prepay which only spells trouble. E-One has been sold, nuff said. What happens if the manufacturer you buy from folds? Where does your warranty go? Or even worse, you order your truck and 6 months later find out you ain't gettin' it (which happened with American LaFrance this year)! Here's where you will regret the commitment, or even worse-THE DEADLY PREPAYMENT!!

    Let me know if you want some hard data to back this up, or can further help. PLEASE, take this seriously!!

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    Default Apparatus Purchase "big P"

    Thanks for the info. Our Purchasing agent had a long chat with the spec team on Monday and it looks like the lead mfg score is not solely going to be on quality, design and features but Finanical Stability (The ability to service the unit 5 years after the purchase is a big deal.) We are reconsidering and looking at some others. Seagrave and Darley have come into play. We are hoping to have something by Feb/Mar '09.

    ....Lot's more homework needed. Great tip.

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    Severe financial distress? Where in the world are you coming up with that crap? Nothing could be further from the truth. Perhaps you better read the entire statement regarding the downgrading of their stock before you come out with out right lies like that.

    Pierce has always offered prepays to their customers as do many other manufacturers. It has nothing to do with their finance situation it is good business practice. And the fire department wins because all the interest that money earns while the truck is being built is given back to the fire department. Depending on the cost of the truck that can equate to 5 figures.

    Check you facts before coming on here with BS like that. The administration staff should block lies like this.

    And, as far as E-1 is concerned, they were just purchased by an investment firm who I am sure is infusing capital where it is needed. What line are you selling for?
    Last edited by sven73; 09-19-2008 at 08:33 AM.

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    TechRescue41- What kind of feedback are you looking for? Both manufacturers make what you are looking for. My suggestion would be to contact the dealers in your area and ask for a users list with phone numbers. Come up with a short list of questions important to you and then call around and ask the other users for information. Perhaps some would be in your area and you could go and see the truck yourself.

    Depending on where you are located there may be a trade show coming up that you could attend. The show season in the NE is about over but I am sure there are shows in other parts of the country.

    Make sure if this is going to have a small command unit that you have someone with communications/computer technical knowledge is included so that you can specify the correct equipment your department will need. That way when the time comes and you are meeting with the successful bidder your tech and their tech can have a meeting of the minds and you can sit back and get a headache listening to them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechRescue41 View Post

    Booster line woould be nice for HazMat support (Just don't think it'll fit.)

    Again looking for some feedback.
    A few random thoughts. One, the booster line would add a huge change to a straightforward "box" truck, requiring a pump, tank, and the piping and mechanics to make it work. Secondly, I wonder how Peirce and E-One are leading if you're not sure what you want? What gives them any edge? That would put things into perspective a little better.

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    If you are doing homework have you looked at SVI. This is what they specialize in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tower47 View Post
    If you are doing homework have you looked at SVI. This is what they specialize in.
    PL Custom/Rescue1 also. Toyne is beginning to expand its line, too.

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    Default SVEN Where have you been?

    How can $3 billion in debt not be something to worry about? Granted Pierce didn't put them their but their Mom and Dad did!!! Their stock went below $10 a share this week?

    NEW YORK—Standard & Poor's Ratings Services on Thursday lowered its ratings for Oshkosh Corp. further into junk, to "BB-" from "BB," citing expectations for weaker future demand from its key markets.

    Oshkosh, which makes specialty vehicles and vehicle bodies, had nearly $3 billion in debt as of June 30. The outlook is negative.

    S&P also said that if the Oshkosh, Wis.-based company's operations fail to stabilize, it could violate a covenant in 2009 and need relief from its lenders. Overall weakness in the economy is expected to hurt the vehicle maker's access equipment, fire and emergency and commercial segments. The stock has slipped about 69 percent so far this year.

    Oshkosh shares dropped $1.27, or 8 percent, to $14.54 in afternoon trading, earlier reaching $14.50, it's lowest point in about five years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mgerard View Post
    (Had trouble getting this reply posted, sorry if it's duplicated)

    Here's a commonly overlooked fact: A company's financial status WILL directly affect a purchaser. Several of the companies out there are experiencing major financial troubles. The big "P" has been downgraded to junk bond status by Dunn & Bradstreet as they are about $3 billion in the hole. They are pushing people to prepay which only spells trouble. E-One has been sold, nuff said. What happens if the manufacturer you buy from folds? Where does your warranty go? Or even worse, you order your truck and 6 months later find out you ain't gettin' it (which happened with American LaFrance this year)! Here's where you will regret the commitment, or even worse-THE DEADLY PREPAYMENT!!

    Let me know if you want some hard data to back this up, or can further help. PLEASE, take this seriously!!

    Three loads of BS from this troll.

    This poster doesn't know diddly squat about anything. Mr 3 posts is likely a web troll in the shortselling business. Most everywhere in attempt to drive down stock price then rake in the $. Usually in the employ of those in the shortsell business.

    Pierce is owned by Oshkosh. Neither are going anywhere and while their business is down recently are certainly stable.

    E-One was recently sold (at a bargain price) by a clueless conglomerate (Federal Signal). Sale was to management who has made major changes to clean up the business after the mismanagement of FedSig. Only major apparatus mfg who's sales/deliveries are up over last couple years. If management did not know the business they wouldn't have put their own money into it. If there was the opportunity to do so I'd buy in today.

    You wouldn't go wrong buying from either of these two companies (if they can meet your specs at your budget).

    Jury is still out on ALF surviving.

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    Default E-One

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    A few random thoughts. One, the booster line would add a huge change to a straightforward "box" truck, requiring a pump, tank, and the piping and mechanics to make it work. Secondly, I wonder how Peirce and E-One are leading if you're not sure what you want? What gives them any edge? That would put things into perspective a little better.
    E-one is leading as their custom chasis and powertrain are locally supported. the Cyclone II seats up to (8) which allows the apparatus to be used stand alone for specific operations. It also allows the cab for a rehab area as we are in a cold climate. With a Cummins ISM 500 HP engine and a Allison EVS4500 tranny local support is readily avialable. (2 staitons in our area are also looking at E-one and another unit just purchased one.) E-one also offers an intergrated hydrualic tool system (HRT) feature that keeps in the forefront.

    SVI offers similar features but their support is not as close as E-one. Pricing is slightly higher.

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    Default

    Could be coincidence but I looked at both RescueTech and mgerard public profiles. Both joined up earlier this week, one day apart. Both birthdays are exactly 1 week apart. And in an earlier post in the firefighting section the leaders were E-1 and Smeal.

    Methinks these may be the same person!

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    Default

    Maybe he likes talking to himself???

    Rescue 1 is an excellent rescue, check them out.

    http://www.plcustom.com/RescueHome.asp

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    bisfiech- Why i've been right here all along. At the last regular stock holders meeting Bob Bohn stated that they were expecting the downgrade so this was not at all unexpected. However S&P also cited in this same report that their cash flow is strong and that they are well diversified. For some reason that constantly gets left out of the news report.

    Now everyone is reading into the statement about relief from its lenders as going bankrupt. More like they will restructure the debt load payment schedule in order to loosen up the load a little bit. Most of the debt comes from the purchase of JLG which more than doubled the size of Oshkosh when it was purchased. However no one could predict the downturn in certain business sections so they are suffering a little bit at the moment. What it doesn't mean is that they are in a "severe" fiancial situation.

    Oshkosh is strong and is not going anywhere. Pierce just recently completed a record quarter and they are not going anywhere either.

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    Default Downgrade?

    Downgrade is an understatement? 3 Billion in debt? Per share price dropping from $65 a share to under $10, and the S&P dropping your credit rating to BB-And it's all over the internet and facts,,,not rumors. How in the world can you not see that there is a problem there?

    That debt is more than some country's entire budget? You can say what you want. But how can you give a company that is in that kind of shape a check for $500K, so I can get a prepayment discount?

    Not a bump against Pierce, it's not their fault! They evidently build a nice truck or they wouldn't have gotten where they are.

    It's a tough time out there. I'm not sure who would be the best bet to buy a truck from.

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    Default Hazmat-Rescue Truck Requirement

    Where are you located?

    I'd recommend taking a look and or talking with SVI Trucks as they are one of the premier builders of these types of speciality equipment in North America and whom I represent in Canada and they are a fantastic company to work and deal with and are a true customer builder and who can be competitive IF it's an apples to apples comparision but they offer a number of unique features and design capabilty compared to other reputable builders. They can incoporate all the storage and equipment carrying features as well as a Wor Station (Command Area) and offer a fantastic 3D computer design to show you how the truck will look NOT after the fact...

    Secondly the 2007 Firehouse Run Survey shows DeKalb County GA as the busiest Hazmat in the US and Edmonton Alberta as the busiest in Canada and Edmonton has just ordered a second Hazmat identical to the one delivered in 2005.

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    E-one is leading as their custom chasis and powertrain are locally supported. the Cyclone II seats up to (8) which allows the apparatus to be used stand alone for specific operations. It also allows the cab for a rehab area as we are in a cold climate. With a Cummins ISM 500 HP engine and a Allison EVS4500 tranny local support is readily avialable. (2 staitons in our area are also looking at E-one and another unit just purchased one.) E-one also offers an intergrated hydrualic tool system (HRT) feature that keeps in the forefront.
    Spartan offers that same engine/trans combo and has a lot more chassis options then E-One in regards to interior, seating, roof heights etc. They also build a much better chassis in my opinion.
    Many body builders, such as SVI, Rescue 1, Hackney and Rosenbauer all build that type of truck and on Spartan chassis. You may want to explore your options.
    My $.02

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    You might want to throw Summit Fire Apparatus into this mix too. They have built many beverage body style rescue/haz mat vehicles.

    Summit Web Site: http://www.summitfireapparatus.com/

    Summit Fire Apparatus photos on the Youngstown Fire Forums: http://www.youngstownfire.com/forums...ic,1332.0.html

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    I've got a brand new Spartan Chassis/Crimson built HAZMAT rig, and a 3 year old E-One HAZMAT rig.

    Guess which one is being sent back, with less than 1,000 miles on it???

    My 2 cents worth, is stay with the two you have going now. But, I'm not a Pierce fan, just so you know.

    FM1

    PS: You market players need to STFU, and get with the REAL program. Geez.

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    You might want to throw Summit Fire Apparatus into this mix too. They have built many beverage body style rescue/haz mat vehicles.
    Personally I would steer clear of Summit. Their attempt at a dropped frame like Hackney is SCARY and crude.They use 10 or 12 inch channel for frame rails that have been torch cut to size without even cleaning up the cuts. I'm quite surprised it would pass a commercial vehicle inspection. If something like that came through my shop I'd fail it without an engineers certification.

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    I may not seem like a way to measure a business...

    But I'd also worry about Summit after clicking through thier website. I found information about a demo they have available. (dripping with sarcasm) The great part is I can get in my time machine and go back to the 2006 FDIC show to see it!

    Time to update your site fellas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Three loads of BS from this troll.


    do you think someone can really create that much trouble from a post on here?
    Last edited by SittingBack; 09-20-2008 at 09:57 PM.

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    Default Talk to the MAN!

    Quote Originally Posted by mgerard View Post
    All I'm gonna say here is be careful! Both mentioned manufacturers are in SEVERE financial distress. The big "P" stock has just been downgraded to junk bond status with D&B, and is pushing buyers to pre-pay. Let me know if you want more details...
    E-ONE is not in severe financial stress. Go talk to the MAN.....get your local dealer to pay for a trip to Florida, see the facility, talk to the new owners, then make your decision.


    Rock

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