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    Default Presidential Election Issues.

    I found a great site that appears to be unbiased and presents where the candidates stand on the issues as well as voting records. I post this because I see so much mis-information being posted out here. I hope that each and everyone of you who debate the politics will use this page often. Perhaps this will lead to some discussion of the issues and stop the B.S. name calling and diversionary techniques employed by the liberals. Sorry, couldn't resist

    On The Issues

    And just because I am a nice guy, here are the links that take you to the individual candidates

    John McCain
    Sarah Palin
    Obama Barrack
    Joe Biden

    FYI - I listed them in the same order they were listed on the site.

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    I like this one from McCain

    Government should be on businesses' side, not in their way. (Jun 2008)

    That's been a winner. $700B later.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I like this one from McCain

    Government should be on businesses' side, not in their way. (Jun 2008)

    That's been a winner. $700B later.
    With the help of Democrats. Try not to forget that they are all in the blame - not just your bias towards Republicans.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Yep good to see rationale and carefully considered cogent debate has replaced name calling and BS

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    I don't suppose this is even possible, but wouldn't it be nice if the CEO's, CFO's etc of these banks and trust companies etc could be held responsible, preferably criminally, i.e. negligence, or at the very least civilly so the SOB's stand in line for food stamps for the rest of their lives? It wouldn't be possible in Canada as employees automatically come under the responsibility of the company and if it goes tits up, they walk away unless its an act of personal negligence, i.e, operating a company owned vehicle while drunk and causing an accident

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I like this one from McCain

    Government should be on businesses' side, not in their way. (Jun 2008)

    That's been a winner. $700B later.
    Here is another take on the whole thing

    Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride

    Ever since the 1930s, the federal government has involved itself deeply in housing policy and developed numerous programs to encourage homebuilding and homeownership.

    Government-sponsored enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were able to obtain a monopoly position in the mortgage market, especially the mortgage-backed securities market, because of the advantages bestowed upon them by the federal government.

    Laws passed by Congress such as the Community Reinvestment Act required banks to make loans to previously underserved segments of their communities, thus forcing banks to lend to people who normally would be rejected as bad credit risks.
    The precedent was set in 1979 when the government bailed out Chrysler. We have been doing it ever since. Let the companies that fail crash. Take back the salaries of the execs too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I like this one from McCain

    Government should be on businesses' side, not in their way. (Jun 2008)

    That's been a winner. $700B later.
    So government should be in businesses' way?
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Here is another take on the whole thing

    Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride



    The precedent was set in 1979 when the government bailed out Chrysler. We have been doing it ever since. Let the companies that fail crash. Take back the salaries of the execs too.
    I am not nuts about government bailouts, but in the case of Chrysler it did work. Iacocca came in, whipped the place into shape, produced the K Car and preserved a lot of good jobs.

    The problem is when corporations play fast and loose with the rules, thinking if they screw up too bad the potential impact on the nation will drag the government in to bail them out. And unfortunately, they are usually right. I agree that the executives should starve and hang (in that order), but so far nobody's been able to figure out how to do that without doing the same to the employees, investors, customers, retirees...
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Here is another take on the whole thing

    Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
    Here's one from the same website regarding McCain's flip flopping.

    And this one with Bush's SecTreas saying a meltdown is imminent.

    Paul's rationale and its impacts is one of the many reasons he is considered a fringe or lunatic candidate.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    So government should be in businesses' way?
    If it means preventing the types of catastrophes we are currently witnessing, YES!!
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    With the help of Democrats. Try not to forget that they are all in the blame - not just your bias towards Republicans.
    Spare me your claims of hypocrisy. As I asked in another thread, who has controlled the agenda in congress 12 of the last 14 years? Anytime someone expressed concern with the impacts of deregulation which group painted them as a socialist or commie who didn't believe in the "free market?" If those same individuals were to come forth and say they supported the "free market" ideals and even the negative impacts I might have a shred of respect for them. Instead the first act of the vaunted party of personal responsibility has sought to blame someone else.


    Sorry Fishboy, the buck stops with the GOP on this one despite your best efforts.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    If it means preventing the types of catastrophes we are currently witnessing, YES!!
    Problem is, the cow is out of the barn now. Whether the barn should have been built better--and by whom--is irrelevant now. People will suffer if nothing is done, it seems, so it's either fix it or crash. Again, it sucks that the CEO's et al get rescued too, but there's no way to save the innocent without saving the guilty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Spare me your claims of hypocrisy. As I asked in another thread, who has controlled the agenda in congress 12 of the last 14 years? Anytime someone expressed concern with the impacts of deregulation which group painted them as a socialist or commie who didn't believe in the "free market?" If those same individuals were to come forth and say they supported the "free market" ideals and even the negative impacts I might have a shred of respect for them. Instead the first act of the vaunted party of personal responsibility has sought to blame someone else.


    Sorry Fishboy, the buck stops with the GOP on this one despite your best efforts.
    Have the liberals ever been to blame for anything?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Have the liberals ever been to blame for anything?
    Nope! Just ask them!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Have the liberals ever been to blame for anything?
    Hey George, what about conservatives? What is their responsibility in all this? Or do you have the naive belief they have none?

    I've already exposed you as clueless on such things as commodities markets and the CIA interventions of the 50's and 60's. Tell us another piece of mythology of how great this president will be regarded when he almost single handedly ruined everything he's touched throughout his entire life.

    Since conservatives like to champion their beliefs in personal responsibility, could you detail for us the responsibility they're accepting?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    I don't suppose this is even possible, but wouldn't it be nice if the CEO's, CFO's etc of these banks and trust companies etc could be held responsible, preferably criminally, i.e. negligence, or at the very least civilly so the SOB's stand in line for food stamps for the rest of their lives? It wouldn't be possible in Canada as employees automatically come under the responsibility of the company and if it goes tits up, they walk away unless its an act of personal negligence, i.e, operating a company owned vehicle while drunk and causing an accident
    seriously. They should be out on their ears. Someone somewhere should take some of the millions in salary and bonuses these idiots get and throw it into that $700B the government is about to throw into this problem.

    And in November We the People should evict all the bums from our city, from our houses and start over. Congress. get rid of the bums and put people in that remember that there are taxpayers paying their salaries. The President needs to be on a short leash.
    To err is human, To forgive divine and at times I am as much of both as you will ever find

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Hey George, what about conservatives? What is their responsibility in all this? Or do you have the naive belief they have none?

    I've already exposed you as clueless on such things as commodities markets and the CIA interventions of the 50's and 60's. Tell us another piece of mythology of how great this president will be regarded when he almost single handedly ruined everything he's touched throughout his entire life.

    Since conservatives like to champion their beliefs in personal responsibility, could you detail for us the responsibility they're accepting?
    Did George say "The entire thing is the fault of liberals"?

    George will give you some mythology about how great W has been if you promise to give us some mythology on how great Gore & Kerry would have been. Oh, never mind--that's all the Dems have been doing since 2000.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Tell us another piece of mythology of how great this president will be regarded when he almost single handedly ruined everything he's touched throughout his entire life.

    I Know...He almost ruined the Texas Rangers....Thats so Un American ...how do you F-up a baseball team...sheez!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Did George say "The entire thing is the fault of liberals"?
    Can you show me where he's said conservatives have any blame in this fiasco? George likes to say the Feds can screw up a free picnic? Does he believe that to be the case now? And whose in charge of handling it? Fortunately I like the fact that politicos on both sides are balking at just handing over $700B with few if any strings attached. If they do that it should be called the Royal Screwing of the US Taxpayers and Permanent Legacy of Dubya Bush Act.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    George will give you some mythology about how great W has been if you promise to give us some mythology on how great Gore & Kerry would have been. Oh, never mind--that's all the Dems have been doing since 2000.
    Given the mismanagement of just about everything by this administration I feel very safe saying that Gore or Kerry could've gone into the Oval Office and slept for eight years and done less damage.
    Last edited by scfire86; 09-23-2008 at 06:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ltmdepas3280 View Post
    I Know...He almost ruined the Texas Rangers....Thats so Un American ...how do you F-up a baseball team...sheez!
    An individual of extraordinary talent to be certain.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    If it means preventing the types of catastrophes we are currently witnessing, YES!!
    Actually, some out there (Ron Paul) believe that government's interference and bolstering of these corporations and industries has led to this problem.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/...out/index.html

    I understand his point and agree in principal, but he is 30 years too late with that message.

    Clearly, we have to intervene here. IF we did not do some sort of bailout, the market would crash and crash hard... it would take years to recover and some estimates are that unemployment would be double digits.

    It's a very complicated issue and unfortunately the people who allowed this to happen are now embroiled in trying to fix it. The Committee hearing today was a joke, the people who should be answering to the American people were instead asking questions and looking so very grave.

    Politics will get in the way of doing the fix that is required here.

    I understand that some will not like the source, but I also found this article very interesting.

    http://www.redstate.com/diaries/blac...es-no-bailout/
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    Deleted.

    Never mind. I didn't realize that Beer Horse Boy started this thread.

    We need to wait till he gets around to topics he is an expert on, such as:
    1. Inappropriate pictures of kids after a 16 y/o Jr FF dies in a tanker accident
    2. Beer in the firehouse and how volunteers need it
    3. Any other pathetically stupid topic a four year old can figure out, but he is stumped.
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    If it means preventing the types of catastrophes we are currently witnessing, YES!!
    No doubt. The Republican party has always championed the "free market" and unrestricted capitalism, believing that the system will control itself. There can be no doubt remaining that this is simply not true. For these people, making a buck has always been more important than the good of the nation as whole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    No doubt. The Republican party has always championed the "free market" and unrestricted capitalism, believing that the system will control itself. There can be no doubt remaining that this is simply not true. For these people, making a buck has always been more important than the good of the nation as whole.
    But how would we know. The system was regulated, and it was not unrestricted.

    The democratic congress, specifically this Banking and Finance Committee (with the dem's in charge) failed to act when warned. In fact, 18 months ago, the Bush whitehouse and other republicans tried for reforms and found no support across the aisle and from Paulson in regards to Fannie and Freddie.

    Great article in the Washington Post by Novak.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=opinionsbox1
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Here's one from the same website regarding McCain's flip flopping.

    And this one with Bush's SecTreas saying a meltdown is imminent.

    Paul's rationale and its impacts is one of the many reasons he is considered a fringe or lunatic candidate.
    Sorry my friend. What you have is a flip, there is no flop. Flip's are fine as long as they are done with good reason. For there to be a flip flop you would need the following.

    I am for X;
    I am against X; (the flip)
    I am for X. (the flop)(which takes us back where you started from)

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