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  1. #1

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    Default What would you do in this situation?

    This was an actual fire scene we had the turned into a circus. The blue dots are the closest hydrants to the scene, the red square is the fire scene and the black box is one of our stations. The call was for a shed and we had two engines and a ladder responding. The first due engine pulled out of the station and parked in front of the fire scene and the second due engine was on their way down the main road heading south (the light brown colored road).

    My question to all is what are your opinions on what the second due engine should do?
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  2. #2
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    Can't tell you how you guys should have done it as there are far too many unknown variables, and then who's to say who's right?

    I can tell you how we'd have done it. The tower would take the front, the first due engine would pull just past the tower and the second due engine would reverse lay from the first to the hydrant. If the distance to the hydrant was within 300 feet, the second engine might not layout, but could hand jack the first engine's LDH to the hydrant. For a shed fire we'd probably hold on the LDH to see if it was needed, with the second engine at the scene they could nurse the tank water if exposures were not a concern. lastly, if street width was too narrow for the engine to pass the tower, they first due engine would go another route and lay in upon orders from the Tower officer. The second due would pump the hydrant valve if the lay was greater that 650 ft. (current 4" rules).

  3. #3

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    Our trucks carry 2,000 feet of 3" hose for feeder lines, the closest hydrant is about 450' away and the roads are well wide enough to get two trucks by each other.

    Thank you for your input.

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    So many options, you can't say there is a RIGHT answer, but my first thoughts are that if the second due has no passed that northern cross-street (assumming up is north on the map), I would have them turn there and pick up the hydrant closest to the brown road and lay to the fire.

    Alternately, going straight to the scene past your firehouse and reverse laying to the same hydrant would be just fine as well (possibly even more desirable if the fire had a real chance of spreading, and needing max flow).

    The only reason I choose that hydrant is it would block fewer cross streets, and could be used to run a line to the back side of the property if needed. Actual knowledge of the system performance might change that decision of course.
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    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    A shed?

    How big?

    If it is your standard 12X12 garden shed, Llet the 1st due engine handle it with tank water, send everyone else back to quarters!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  6. #6
    Forum Member BCmdepas3280's Avatar
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    I was thinking the same thing.... a shed?
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  7. #7
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    A shed?

    How big?

    If it is your standard 12X12 garden shed, Let the 1st due engine handle it with tank water, send everyone else back to quarters!
    At least I'm not the only one wondering this. How can a shed fire be turned into a circus. You could handle it with a brush unit.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  8. #8
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    Obviously the first thing would be to flip on my powercall....you cant take in a box without it Then, most importantly, layout....dual Lines....dual Lines!!! Who cares where ya drop em, its just cool to lay hose
    Last edited by MG3610; 09-25-2008 at 11:25 PM.

  9. #9
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  10. #10
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    While it may be just a shed, most often we don't get the whole story until we're onscene, therefore responses are usually more uniform. I'm sure we'd run the original response the same whether the fire was reported in the shed or the house, given the quality of the information we get from the caller through to the cop on scene. Unless your standard response is to lay dual lines or LDH in before someone sees whats burning, I'd stick to uniform response guidelines.

  11. #11
    Forum Member Slaytallica45's Avatar
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    If the 1st Engines tank water was not enough and required a hydrant, this is the way I would think it should be set up based on what you've told us:


    I'd also probably return the Truck, since its just a shed.
    NJ FFII/EMT-B

  12. #12
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    I'll have 2nd due come to scene, drop of manpower/tools, and lay out to closest hydrant.



    Cogs

  13. #13
    Forum Member st42stephenAFT's Avatar
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    Knowing you have 2 engines coming in off the bat, I would have engine 1 go to the scene and start on tank water, while the second engine probably reverse lays to the hydrant to feed E1 if it needs more water.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ltmdepas3280 View Post
    I was thinking the same thing.... a shed?

    The call originally came in as a garage fire by the police, then changed to a shed fire. The first engine due in and everyone else on scene never gave a size-up of the scene, so the second due truck had no idea what to expect on arrival. Come to find out the shed was approx. 25' x 15'. The circus began when command was never established and 3 different officers gave 3 different orders.

  15. #15
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    Well in our area (City) the 2nd in Engine goes to Level 1 staging unless ordered to do something else by the IC.

    1st unit on scene is IC unless they declare that they are going "fast attack" and then 2nd in unit is IC and approaches the scene...then next in units go to level 1 staging unless ordered to do something else by the IC.

    The IC makes the decisions as to what gets done first, second, third and so on…

    And those decisions are based on many, many things. Does the attack engine have a supply? Does the attack engine need a supply? Do we need Back-up, Search, Ventilation or a hot cup of coffee and some thing to eat. (Sorry…that last part is just a joke. We have never assigned the 2nd in Engine to get coffee.)

    That is about how far our SOGs go. But…there is a lot more than just showing up 2nd due. When I am on the Engine I will always attempt to come in “choose a route” that will set my Engine up for what ever is needed. First I will choose a route that will bring me to a hydrant. Now I am ready to supply the 1st in Engine if needed or I can be “Back-Up” with my own supply if ordered.

    So…to answer you question. The 2nd in Engine should be ready to support the 1st in Engine and be READY to do what ever in needed and/or ordered by Command. If I was in the 2nd Engine we would have driven around the block or to the next road and positioned our selves to hit the hydtant if needed.

  16. #16
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    Sounds like the engine's got it, so...


  17. #17
    Forum Member TNFF319's Avatar
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    Dang truckies
    FF/Paramedic

  18. #18
    Forum Member volfirie's Avatar
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    Default An opinion from Down Under

    For us a shed fire would be paged as a structure fire, and would be responded to as such at least until we had someone on-scene able to give a sitrep. Shed fires can be very nasty here - you never know what's stored in them - fuel for the car, for the boat, for the mower, brake fluid, pool chlorine, LPG, Oxy Acet, we just never know.

    For your fire? If the shed was fully involved on arrival, Eng 1 could have called for Eng 2 to go to the hydrant north of the fire and run a feed to Eng 1. The Ladder could have come directly to the scene for manpower assistance.

    Calling "command was never established and 3 different officers gave 3 different orders." a circus is being very polite! How about a toal cluster? Were those officers from the same department? Just how ashamed were they after it was over?
    "Professional" means your attitude to the job...

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by volfirie View Post
    For us a shed fire would be paged as a structure fire, and would be responded to as such at least until we had someone on-scene able to give a sitrep. Shed fires can be very nasty here - you never know what's stored in them - fuel for the car, for the boat, for the mower, brake fluid, pool chlorine, LPG, Oxy Acet, we just never know.

    For your fire? If the shed was fully involved on arrival, Eng 1 could have called for Eng 2 to go to the hydrant north of the fire and run a feed to Eng 1. The Ladder could have come directly to the scene for manpower assistance.

    Calling "command was never established and 3 different officers gave 3 different orders." a circus is being very polite! How about a toal cluster? Were those officers from the same department? Just how ashamed were they after it was over?
    It seems there are a million different ways this could have been done right.

    I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but it seems the only reason this was a cluster was because of the incident command (or lack thereof).

    It sounds like the department should go "back to basics."

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingHippo View Post
    Sounds like the engine's got it, so...

    Yet another reason to be on the Truck.
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