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  1. #1
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    Default Another example of Texas Insanity

    I am absolutely convinced there is not one sane person in the whoe damn state.

    Neighbors Defend Texan Accused of Murdering Teen Over Snacks
    Thursday , September 25, 2008



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    LAREDO, Texas ó

    The trial of a man accused of executing a teen who broke into his home with friends looking for snacks has many in this border city outraged. Not because of the crime, but because the man is facing a murder charge.

    In a state where the right to use deadly force to protect one's life and property is sacrosanct and frontier justice is still sometimes the norm ó particularly on the violence-plagued Texas-Mexico border ó prosecutors have to explain the decision to try Jose Luis Gonzalez.

    Even their future boss, the man who is running uncontested for Webb County district attorney in November, disagrees with the decision; he is Gonzalez's defense attorney.

    Gonzalez, a wiry, graying 63-year-old, had endured several break-ins at his trailer in a hard-scrabble community east of town when four boys, ranging in age from 11 to 15, broke into his trailer to rummage for chips and soda in July 2007. Gonzalez was in a nearby building at the time.

    Gonzalez went into the trailer and confronted the boys with a 16-gauge shotgun. The boys, who were unarmed, were forced to their knees, attorneys on both sides say.

    The boys claim they were begging for forgiveness when Gonzalez hit them with the barrel of the shotgun and kicked them repeatedly.

    Then, the medical examiner testified, 13-year-old Francisco Anguiano was shot in the back at point-blank range. Two mashed Twinkies and some cookies were stuffed in the pockets of his shorts.

    Another boy, Jesus Soto Jr., now 16, testified that Gonzalez ordered them at gunpoint to take Francisco's body outside.

    Texas law does allow homeowners to use deadly force to protect themselves and their property, and prosecutors and grand juries have generally applied that standard broadly. In June, a grand jury in Houston cleared a homeowner who shot and killed two burglars outside his neighbor's house despite the dispatcher's repeated request that he stay inside his own home.

    "The homeowner's right to defend himself is not what's on trial in this case," said Assistant District Attorney Uriel Druker, speaking of the Gonzalez case. The shooting "was unnecessary and unreasonable, and Texas law doesn't protect that kind of behavior."

    But folks in this border city scarred by drug violence across the Rio Grande defend Gonzalez's actions.

    "It's a table topic at coffee shops, not only in Laredo but throughout the region," said Mayor Raul Salinas, who noted that folks tend to have strong opinions about the right to protect themselves here. "There's been some debate."

    Reader responses to articles published on the Laredo Morning Times Web site called Gonzalez's prosecution unfair and blasted the teen, saying Francisco got what he deserved.

    Food distributor Francisco Hernandez pointed out in an interview with The Associated Press that a homeowner wouldn't know whether the intruders were there "to steal potato chips or to stab you."

    "He really shouldn't be on trial," Hernandez said.

    Gonzalez could get up to life in prison if he's convicted of first-degree murder. His attorney, Isidro "Chilo" Alaniz, said his client was simply acting in self-defense when he found the boys in the trailer late at night.

    "There is not a day that goes by that Mr. Gonzalez doesn't think about that little boy," Alaniz said. But Gonzalez "feared for his life."

    It was four on one when Gonzalez entered the trailer, Alaniz said. He had the boys on the ground and recognized at least one of them, but Gonzalez thought 13-year-old boy was lunging at him when he fired the shotgun, Alaniz said.

    The case will be Alaniz's last as a criminal defense attorney. The 40-year-old won the Democratic nomination in April and has no Republican opponent for district attorney in the November.

    He said he became Gonzalez's attorney long before he decided to run for office and has stuck with the case because he believes in it. He was asked whether his client would be on trial for murder if he were already in office.

    "That's a good question," Alaniz said. "This case has huge implications for homeowners, gun owners."

    The trial is expected to wrap up Friday.
    All four boys on the ground.

    Begging for forgiveness.

    Shot in the back at point blank range.

    Ordering the other boys at gunpoint to remove the body.

    The people of Texas celebrating another murderer as a hero and yelling that a 13 yoa child got what he deserved.

    It was another case of murder.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.


  2. #2
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    you missed two points:

    He had the boys on the ground and recognized at least one of them, but Gonzalez thought 13-year-old boy was lunging at him when he fired the shotgun, Alaniz said.

    and

    Then, the medical examiner testified, 13-year-old Francisco Anguiano was shot in the back at point-blank range.

    maybe it's just me, but if someone is lunging at you, how do you end up shooting him point blank IN THE BACK?

    looks like a clear case of an execution. the self defense excuse ended once he had them get down on their knees.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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  3. #3
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    So now "self-defense" is to include execution style murders?

    Oh, wait a second, the kids broke into his house and posed an immediate threat to Jose Gonzalez or his family, I get it.

    Sometimes you just have to shake your head. I imagine there will be those who will come to this thread and defend Mr. Gonzalez and his actions, because, if your property is in danger, murder is perfectly acceptable. That has been argued a couple of times. Why have a police force then?

    Shot in the back, hard to believe.

  4. #4
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    That is absolutley crazy. Mr. Gonzalez must really love his twinkies!

  5. #5
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I am absolutely convinced there is not one sane person in the whoe damn state.
    Jealousy is a green-eyed monster.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  6. #6
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    We've learned something here. This is even too crazy for the gun fanatics here to defend.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    We've learned something here. This is even too crazy for the gun fanatics here to defend.
    As always there is a time and a place for the use of any tool or piece of equipment. Sometimes, under certain circumstances, it has no place at all.

  8. #8
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    The jury found him NOT guilty:

    South Texas man cleared in fatal shooting of teenager who broke into home
    1:57 PM Mon, Sep 29, 2008 | Permalink | Yahoo! Buzz
    Matthew Peterson E-mail News tips
    A jury has acquitted a South Texas man of murder in the shooting of a 13-year-old boy who broke into his trailer home looking for a snack.

    Francisco Anguiano and three friends, ages 11 to 15, broke into the Webb County home of Jose Luis Gonzalez (right), in July 2007 to rummage for snacks and soda, The Associated Press reports. Mr. Gonzalez, 63, said he fired because he feared for his life.

    Texas law, specifically the "castle doctrine," allows homeowners to use deadly force to protect themselves and their property.

    The law was cited in March in Kaufman County, where 15-year-old Brandon Robinson was shot while crossing the property of W.C. Frosch. Mr. Frosch, 74, has been indicted on a charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.


    In the Webb County case, Mr. Gonzalez told authorities he was asleep in a nearby shed when he heard the teenagers inside his home. He went into the trailer and confronted the boys with a 16-gauge shotgun. Then he forced the boys, who were unarmed, to their knees, attorneys on both sides say.

    Mr. Gonzalez said he thought Francisco was lunging at him when he fired the shotgun in self-defense. Two mashed Twinkies and some cookies were stuffed in the pockets of his shorts.

    Another boy, Jesus Soto Jr., now 16, testified that Mr. Gonzalez ordered them at gunpoint to take Francisco's body outside.

    "I thank God and my attorney, the jury and the judge," Mr. Gonzalez said after the verdict. "It was a case where it was my life or theirs, and it's a very good thing that they [the jurors] decided in my favor."

  9. #9
    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
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    I'm all for self defense laws like this. Ohio just passed a similar one, but this seems like a cut and dry case of execution.
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  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Honestly, if I was the 13 year olds Father and had to endure that bullschit trial, there would be one less trigger quick old man in Texas right now...

    "Frontier Justice" can be warped many ways.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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  11. #11
    Forum Member Raughammer1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcaldwell View Post
    Honestly, if I was the 13 year olds Father and had to endure that bullschit trial, there would be one less trigger quick old man in Texas right now...

    "Frontier Justice" can be warped many ways.
    Then there would two dead criminals, you and the burglar.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    Then there would two dead criminals, you and the burglar.
    And I would be just fine with that tag. Particularly if is meant that the next idiot might consider the potential repercussions of his actions, before he "executes" an unarmed 13 year old by shooting them in the back (and this murderer certainly would not do it again)

    Every person has a limit of values and beliefs beyond which you cannot legislate compliance. To some folks it may be religious, others ethical (in thier mind). To me, there is no justification for this crime as it is described. It is Murder, not self defense.

    You might as well legalize serial killing as long as the victim enters your home willingly, or just allow the shooter to just bury these "criminals" in thier backyard because for all intents and purposes that is the message being sent here.

    The Police, Military, or any wing of government could not conduct an action like this anywhere, anytime, in any justifiable way, so why should a homeowner be allowed to do so just because it occured in thier home.

    The principle of a "Castle Doctrine", or any other home/self defense law should be intended to allow a person to defend themselves against a perceived threat. There must always be a reasonable guideline that defines the acceptable boundaries of this behavior however, or it will be exploited like this. This as described is a case of an angry old man trying to make an example of a stupid adolescent child. No self defence, no fear of imment danger.

    A CHILD ON HIS KNEES, PLEADING, SHOT IN THE BACK AT POINT BLANK RANGE.

    For me, no law can make that acceptable.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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  13. #13
    Forum Member THEFIRENUT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I am absolutely convinced there is not one sane person in the whoe damn state.
    Shall we go looking through New Jersey's criminal trials to see if there is any injustice there??????

    I see no problem with bringing this story to light because of the injustice, but to proclaim ALL Texans as insane is ludicrous.

    Go back in your little hole in New Jersey and pray that you are forgiven.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by THEFIRENUT View Post
    Shall we go looking through New Jersey's criminal trials to see if there is any injustice there??????

    I see no problem with bringing this story to light because of the injustice, but to proclaim ALL Texans as insane is ludicrous.

    Go back in your little hole in New Jersey and pray that you are forgiven.
    This has nothing to do with NJ.

    The fact that a Texas jury found this guy not guilty only bolsters my claim. This nonsense will not stop until someone files a civil rights suit and wins. I guess everything is bigger in Texas. You people ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  15. #15
    Forum Member Raughammer1's Avatar
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    Exclamation Frontier Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by mcaldwell View Post
    And I would be just fine with that tag. Particularly if is meant that the next idiot might consider the potential repercussions of his actions, before he "executes" an unarmed 13 year old by shooting them in the back (and this murderer certainly would not do it again)

    Every person has a limit of values and beliefs beyond which you cannot legislate compliance. To some folks it may be religious, others ethical (in thier mind). To me, there is no justification for this crime as it is described. It is Murder, not self defense.

    You might as well legalize serial killing as long as the victim enters your home willingly, or just allow the shooter to just bury these "criminals" in thier backyard because for all intents and purposes that is the message being sent here.

    The Police, Military, or any wing of government could not conduct an action like this anywhere, anytime, in any justifiable way, so why should a homeowner be allowed to do so just because it occured in thier home.

    The principle of a "Castle Doctrine", or any other home/self defense law should be intended to allow a person to defend themselves against a perceived threat. There must always be a reasonable guideline that defines the acceptable boundaries of this behavior however, or it will be exploited like this. This as described is a case of an angry old man trying to make an example of a stupid adolescent child. No self defence, no fear of imment danger.

    A CHILD ON HIS KNEES, PLEADING, SHOT IN THE BACK AT POINT BLANK RANGE.

    For me, no law can make that acceptable.
    What ever man, its all semantics at this point; You are advocating vigilantism, no matter how you want to dress up that pig thatís what youíre advocating. The man was found innocent in a court of law but you want to go one better and do what YOU think is "right" and murder him.

    You might get away with that criminal mindset up there in Canada but try that down here and you'll be laying there on a gurney in Huntsville with a needle in your arm faster than anywhere else in the Western world.

    So whats next after you murder the old man? Do the old mans sons go kill your widow in retaliation? Burn down your house and kill your other children? Then i guess your other family members go kill the old mans sons?

    You spit out "Frontier Justice" and then advocate doing just that with your next breath.

  16. #16
    CFEI / CFII cubbie's Avatar
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    Default Georgia Case

    Georgia had a case last year or maybe the year before. Bad guy car jacks a woman. Makes her drive. A man pulls up next to them at a traffic light. He sees the man holding a gun to the woman head. He follows and calls 911 to report the incident. The bad guy realizes he is being followed. He makes the woman drive faster. She runs a red light. There is a traffic accident and the woman is killed. The bad guy gets out of the car and runs.
    The man following them has permit to carry a hand gun. He chases the bad guy down. They shoot at each other. He ends up shooting and killing the bad guy. Then he is arrested and charged with murder.

    Based on Georgia law you have the legal right to use deadly force to protect yourself or others. The case was made on the assumption that if the bad guy got away he would have harmed others in the future. The jury agreed. Not guilty

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    "God and the firemen" is the people's cry;
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  17. #17
    makes good girls go bad BLSboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubbie View Post
    Georgia had a case last year or maybe the year before. Bad guy car jacks a woman. Makes her drive. A man pulls up next to them at a traffic light. He sees the man holding a gun to the woman head. He follows and calls 911 to report the incident. The bad guy realizes he is being followed. He makes the woman drive faster. She runs a red light. There is a traffic accident and the woman is killed. The bad guy gets out of the car and runs.
    The man following them has permit to carry a hand gun. He chases the bad guy down. They shoot at each other. He ends up shooting and killing the bad guy. Then he is arrested and charged with murder.

    Based on Georgia law you have the legal right to use deadly force to protect yourself or others. The case was made on the assumption that if the bad guy got away he would have harmed others in the future. The jury agreed. Not guilty
    Apples and oranges.

    The looney Texan shot and killed an unarmed child who was kneeling.
    From behind.

    I am all for CCW, gun ownership, castle doctrine, and fighting crime by shooting back.
    However, this goes FAR and beyond that.
    This piece of garbage was judge, jury, and executioner.

    I agree with mcaldwell, he needs to be dealt with.

    Hello jury nullification. Ever hear of OJ?
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  18. #18
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
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    Well, I know one thing for sure: The two news reports certainly contained all the information necessary to know what happened. I am positive there was no more information available in the trial that would have bolstered one position or the other.

    News articles always contain all the facts necessary to jump to a conclusion. And they are accurate, because journalists are in the business of reporting the facts, not selling papers.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    No dripping sarcasm in your post eh Johnny? Well... ok... Just a bit, right? While I have nothing to add to the original post, I agree with your assessment of the press.

  20. #20
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Then there would two dead criminals, you and the burglar.
    Texas: More scum per capita than any state in the union.

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