Thread: Fire 20/20
10-02-2008, 04:03 PM #1
Hiring based on race/gender than test scores and physical fitness? It's a throwback to the last twenty years. I believe everyone should have the chance to score this job. Most qualified person gets it. That's life. If someone scores a 99 on the test, they should not be passed over because they are white. If someone scores a 99 and they are black, they should not be passed over because they are black.
Now from what I gather from this video, they are trying to recruit. That's fine. I hope minorities and woman do apply and get the job if they are the most qualified. But I can see Fire 20/20 taking this issue farther. Maybe it's because I am from the Boston area and it has happened here before. What's everyone elses thoughts?
Last edited by MassFireGuy; 10-02-2008 at 04:09 PM.
10-02-2008, 04:16 PM #2
Mass, I am from Jersey, where it seems that unless you are the right color, have an even number of appendages, you will have a much tougher time getting da job.
Thats not stopping me from trying, and hopefully, succeeding.
I find that pandering to a gender/demographic population will hurt us in the long run.
That being said, some of the most capable people I have trained/volunteered with are women or minorities.
We ALL should be afforded the same chance of getting the job.
Who you know/blow.AJ, MICP, FireMedic
This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.
10-02-2008, 07:21 PM #3
Mass, my department participated in this study. We had these mutts in our engine houses, asking questions.
This is a racist group, that is only concerned about obtaining minority hiring, by any means necessary. They try to come off as being non-partisan, open minded, blah-blah-blah. They aren't.
Bls, Jersey has nothing on us.
This is their web-site:
10-02-2008, 07:50 PM #4
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
this whole thing has gotten so far out of whack. Do you know how many white males now believe (whether truthfully or not can be debated) they do not stand a chance at getting a job because they are white? A lot. Is this right? absolutely not.
If I am not mistaken departments have been sued for unfair hiring and part of the evidence was their recruitment flyers that only featured white men. I see a lot now that show NO white men. So it's not ok to exclude some groups, but others its alright?
Soon no one is going to think this is an attainable job. Non-whites will complain and the white guys will think they don't have a shot.
This is all utter garbage. Another point, how does being a certain ethnicity help solve the language barrier? Just because your heritage is whatever doesn't mean you can speak the language. The black guy who's family has been here 200 years can't magically speak to the Ethiopian immigrant or the Somali immigrant. That is a racist assumption.
10-02-2008, 09:13 PM #5
- Join Date
- Jul 2003
Seems to be the norm in the Northeast. God forbid departments go by the "list". If you can honestly tell me what makes someone more qualified just because their relatives are from another country? Please. Let the guys and gals who WANT this job earn it, just don't hand it to someone because you have a civil service commission, or because the department should be more diversity.
10-02-2008, 09:30 PM #6
Like I have said before I lined my life up, as did many others like me, so I could get hired. Residency, veterans status, EMT, and a good score on my test. Take one of those out, then forget about it. Is that fair?
I just read a really great book. It is titled, "Rescue Men" by Charled Kenney (HIGHLY HIGHLY recommended). In that book there are a couple of chapters that talk about this problem. It will get you a little ****ed. Actually, it will get you very ****ed.
I don't have to worry about myself. I am on and I'm happy. I do worry about my son. And if he chooses to follow in the footsteps as his father, both grandfathers, and great great grandfather, will he have to worry about being white? Will he have to worry about loosing his job to someone who has scored lower on a test than he did?
The point that I am trying to make here is this: We need to make sure this never happens again. We need to make sure the job goes to the person who studied the hardest not the person who has the right colored skin. That is RACISM and the courts allowed it. This new group (Fire 20/20) will try and revive this BS system.
Last edited by MassFireGuy; 10-02-2008 at 09:32 PM.
10-03-2008, 06:34 AM #7
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
- Northeast Coast
I've yet to watch the video, as the title of the article ****es me off to start. Why do we need more women and minorities? I've never looked around the fireground and wished I had another woman, Hispanic or Asian. I have looked around and wished I had another firefighter or two to do something. Never cared what color or sex or how they like their sex as long as they could do the job. We do not need more minorities, we need more qualified candidates willing to train and actually do some work. The only minority we need, is the person who has a decent work ethic, fast becoming a minority of its own. If your FD have a particular need, such as language skills, make that a requirement and let the chips fall where they may.
10-03-2008, 11:05 AM #8
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Ocala, FL
This has been a sticky subject for a long time. When I got out if the academy in '97 I did what every guy fresh out of school did. I called every big department within a zillion miles to look for a job. I called a large department in south Florida to find out how to apply. The HR person told me over the phone that they have a very aggressive policy to hire minorities and I don't SOUND like I would do well in their hiring process.
The numbers are skewed in my opinion as well. How many applicants are are members of a minority? A community may have a 30% ______ population but only 5% of the qualified applicants are _______. If your incoming rookies are about 5%______ then you're about spot on in your process. Not how they see it. They want 30% of your starting employees to be out of that 5%.
Here in FL a large portion of applicants must go out and get their fire training before applying, many do it through volunteer departments. What are the demographics of our graduating classes across the state? That would be an excellent indicator of whether or not the fire service is or is not hiring a proper portion of minorities. Wait.... we can't do that. We'd have accurate statistics as opposed to politically advantageous ones.I may speak gibberish, but I don't talk s***! -- Dropkick Murphys
10-03-2008, 11:39 AM #9
It's the same old S*** in a different wrapper.
I want the best and the brightest who want to do the job... not someone who was recruited because of gender or race.
When a Department doesn't get enough "applicants" to fit the bill.. that tells you something...
THEY DON'T WANT THE JOB!
Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 10-03-2008 at 06:11 PM."The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY
10-03-2008, 03:15 PM #10
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
- metro detroit
Just wait, or tell your newborn that
Census bureau states that according to projections, caucasians should be minority by 2038.
IMO there will be a whole new set of rules by then.
10-03-2008, 03:35 PM #11
I totally agree with Mass and Gonz.
It should be the most qualified person regardless age, race, sex, etc.
This video it total BS and I was ******ed at the end of it. Seems to me they are not for equality, they are for "minorities" only.
They don't want the job if they don't apply!Jason Knecht
Altoona Fire Dept.
IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!
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