Laddertrucks... a Hypothetical

[MG3610]

I was saying that there arent many midmount aerials on the market these days that are 100'. The towers I know of are usually 93 or 95'. Sutphen makes a 100 MM, but not sure of others. Now, I spoke out of line a bit becsuse you dont seem many mid mount AERIALS these days, but apparently there are a few Mfr's making them. I was thinking towers, not aerials.

I was speaking of todays availibility, not the rigs of yesteryear. Sorry for my misrepresentation.

[skipatrol8]

So far as I can tell Pierce (5 section), E-One, KME (four or five section), Sutphen, ALF (4 Section), Rosenbauer (5 section), and Smeal/Ferrara all build 100' midmount aerials. E-One has not advertised their's in the past, but the neighboring town has one. I am not sure if the Rosenbauer aerial line is still built by RK Aerials, which would mean that the aerial might be for sale to other builders that do not do in house ladder engineering (Toyne and Alexis come to mind).

[RoofTopTrucky]

I turn to you guys for some input... for the time being, we'll just call this a hypothetical question.

If you were to spec out and purchase a ladder truck - what/how would you do and why? Prefered brands/models and why? I know this is a broad set of questions... but I'm really looking for lots and lots of ideas and reasoning.

The requirements are:

100' or greater ladder
1500GPM pump
300 gallons or greater water
3 crosslays (2- 1 3/4" & 1- 2")
minimum of 800' 5" LDH
6 man cab
good sized generator
keep it as short and manuverable as we can (tight areas)
11'6" travel height maximum

Let the games begin!

FIRST I'd scratch the pump, hose and water.... real trucks do have pumps and thats why we have the wagons
Based on the ladder, I'd go E-One. Never a failure, and more room on the ladder itself, plus some thermal properties and what not of aluminum ladders
15 kw hyd. - Harrison
11' 6 is do-able
Manuverability... Make it bend in the middle

[MG3610]

So far as I can tell Pierce (5 section), E-One, KME (four or five section), Sutphen, ALF (4 Section), Rosenbauer (5 section), and Smeal/Ferrara all build 100' midmount aerials. E-One has not advertised their's in the past, but the neighboring town has one. I am not sure if the Rosenbauer aerial line is still built by RK Aerials, which would mean that the aerial might be for sale to other builders that do not do in house ladder engineering (Toyne and Alexis come to mind).

Whats interesting is how few are actually on the streets. It seems like 100' MM's were almost the standard back in the 40's through 80's (maybe my years arent spot on, but its a guess). Most MM's now a days are towers. I wonder why?

[VanIsleEVT]

Toronto still has MM aerial ladders AND RM aerial ladders and RM platforms and even Brontos.

[Rescue101]

MG,better take another look around. Loads of MM's both past and present.
Rockland Me. is a MM.Ours is a MM.As SP indicates ALL of your major players offer a 100'MM. Now, if you favor a RM,nothing wrong with that either. In our area platforms are gaining popularity because of reduced staffing and lightweight construction. But there's still plenty of straight sticks floating around.Everybody has an opinion which is best;I find that they both have Pros and Cons. For us,the MM works better. For our neighbors,it's RM. So whatever fits your needs. T.C.

[MG3610]

MG,better take another look around. Loads of MM's both past and present.
Rockland Me. is a MM.Ours is a MM.As SP indicates ALL of your major players offer a 100'MM. Now, if you favor a RM,nothing wrong with that either. In our area platforms are gaining popularity because of reduced staffing and lightweight construction. But there's still plenty of straight sticks floating around.Everybody has an opinion which is best;I find that they both have Pros and Cons. For us,the MM works better. For our neighbors,it's RM. So whatever fits your needs. T.C.

I am referring to midmount AERIALS, not TOWERS. MM towers are a dime a dozen, its midmount AERIALS that I see very few of lately. Hope this clears it up for good

[RedBaronl32]

I think the best thing about the MM is the manueverability!

[Rescue101]

Clear it up for good? Now that would take the sport out of it now wouldn't it.And I wouldn't have to do any more research. You SURE you wanna do this? Hehe T.C.

[Rescue101]

Ah,the Baron must have a spare minute.Tony,how come you're advertising brand X? Good picture though. T.C.

[RedBaronl32]

Gotta help the Goombahs too!!!! Me thinks they turn corners like those other things from "Lose-ianna Swamp Lands" but if you must be low this is about the only way to do it, and yes we make some just like it.

[Elwood]

We operate a 100' RM Hahn with a single rear axle quad out riggers. It has a prepiped waterway and ample storage for us.

Must haves are as follows:

Large generator (diesel) ours is 10K.
Multiple cord reels and lights (use electric pump on rescue tool)
Variety of ground ladders and tools.

Wish we had!

Portable cascade
Ladder mounted lights
Absorbent Hopper

Since we are a straight truck company, we do not have a pump, hose or tank. Prior experience tells me that you should pay close attention to the hose bed and how the hose deploys out of the bed. Also look at the height of the rig and access to the compartments. For what its worth, I do like a platform. I just can't afford it!

[MMFireBuff]

I am sorta wondering why....but anyway...my opinions follow.

I've never spec'd a truck, but have operated with several of them over the years.

What do you need it to do? Your 100' requirement essentially eliminates most midmounts and puts you into rearmount territory. ALF does make 100' midmount aerials.

Is this going to be a ladder or tower?

If its a ladder, specing one that has a monitor capable of operating above the axis of the aerial (see thread on new aerial monitors) for increased versatility.

If its a tower, manually controlled tiller bar type monitor (Aerialscope style).

An angled bucket sounds appealing after learning about their advantages.

If its an aerial, skip all the lights, bells and gadgets on the tip, leave it clear so you can actually get it up next to things. Maybe one of those cheap 12v unity flood lights for some work light.

What about a quad, drop the aerial and carry a ton of portable ladders. Fair Haven NJ just got a pierce quad. There is another one floating around somewhere I just recently saw but its escaping me.

Is this the rig for Fair Haven you are mentioning?

http://www.piercemfg.com/DeliveryDet...7-a9cc6f87ffd9

It does look real nice.

[ffmedcbk1]

For my money you can't beat a Stuphen tower.

give me two things.....

a hammer and some of "your money". i'll drive to station one and show you how to beat a Sutphen!!!!


We call it a "special little bitter citrus fruit", small like a lime but more yellow.

[cilfd]

Laddertruck,
When it comes to what your looking at, my #1 comment is 'you can't have it all." If you really want to be able to operate as an engine and have that versatility with a 100'+ aerial, personally I'd be looking at a RM straight stick with your pump/tank of choice. With some manufacturers/models you can do that within your 11'6" OAH. As examples, E-One 110 or HM100 with 500 GWT and a narrow jack spread. Current FD operates a 105' Pierce RM with no pump/tank and we have a very tight 19th century village as part of the district. I drive the truck often and I can get it though the village, it's tight, but doable. Anything any bigger and it would be a problem. If you are willing to go bigger and give up some versatility/maneuverability, than that opens you up to a wider range of options including the MM platforms/straight sticks that would meet your OAH limit.

[MG3610]

Is this the rig for Fair Haven you are mentioning?

http://www.piercemfg.com/DeliveryDet...7-a9cc6f87ffd9

It does look real nice.

Thats it.

http://www.f-ss.com/deliveries/print/may08/20045.pdf

[MTKROUSH]

Sounds like us.

We went with a rear mount for the added compartment space. The ability to back in to a scene and get the full 100' reach was another factor, you lose a little bit with a mid mount. The midmount demo we had did not have the maneuverability the rear mount had, with the large rear end swing.

That is us. We got lucky though. We were able to do our homework and find a refurbed Simon Duplex LTI 110' Rear mount quint that is working out just lovely for us. The chief was wanting to go 75' and a group of us found a refurb dealer in our State that had the right truck for the right price. We run it as an engine on occasion, a truck most of the time, and even as a second due Rescue company if that becomes necessary.

[Bones42]

Is this the rig for Fair Haven you are mentioning?

That Fair Haven engine is the LONGEST engine I have seen in my life.

It even fits on MOST of their streets.

[islandfire03]

It's only 38 feet long according to the drawing. :-} just slightly shorter than an amtrack commuter train.
I'm guessing around 525K as it's a custom body with a lot of bling.
455 hp ?????? Whats with that. other than out doing the neighbors. It's only got to move 500 gallons of water.

[Bulldog]

That Fair Haven engine is the LONGEST engine I have seen in my life.

It even fits on MOST of their streets.

You're forgetting, it's not an engine it's a Quad! If you look at the drawings they need the length to allow for storage of the long ladders. Quads are not very common today but they used to be in the past when manpower was such an issue.