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  1. #1
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    Default 48/96 vs. 24/48 w/ kelley day... which is better?

    Our dept is looking at the 48/96 I don't really know how serious they are. My question is...which one of these is better? I've heard that some smaller dept's like the 48/96, but what about the larger/busier ones? Also, someone at the station mentioned Austin TX has a kelley day instead of getting FLSA. I'm wondering what are the pro's and con's of both of these.....anyone? Thanks in advance.


  2. #2
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    48/96 equates to a 56 hour work week, correct?

    We work a 24/48 with a kelly every three weeks...= 48 hour work week.

    Also, I can't imagine working 48 hours straight at a busy station. Might work for the smaller departments.

  3. #3

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    Thumbs up 48/96

    Our department has been working the 48's for the last 3 years. We love it and I do not see us changing for a long time. We started with the Modified Burkley and changed to the 48's. West Metro fire in Colorado is also running this shift and they are large and busy department. From talking with them they like it as well.

  4. #4
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    I have work for two departments. Between the 2 I have worked 3 different scedules. The first i worked is somtimes called a "berkley" (on a day off a day on a day off a day on a day off for 4). I really liked this one because of the 4 day breaks and if you take one day off you actually get six in a row. We switched to the 48/96 in my 2nd year. I really liked that even more just because you get a 4 day break every week. I like blocks of time off. I now work for a busier department. We work a 24/48 with a kelly day witch equals 6 24hr shifts off a year. I absolutly hate this. Feel like i am working all the time. Here is how they break down for time off. A 48/96 can be harder on family life but it does work for larger departments but i think its better for slower ones. Ithink the best way to do it for a busier department is a on off Berkley. Still get some good breaks off and dont get burnt out. Any other questions let me know.

    48/96 take 1 day off actually have 5 off.
    take 2 days have 10 off in a row.
    take 3 off get 11 off
    take 4 off get 16 off
    24/48 take 1 day off get 5 off.
    take 2 days get 8off
    take 3 days get 11 off
    take 4 days get 14 off
    Berkley Take 1 day get 6 off 9unless you take the middle day off)
    take 2 days off get 8 off
    take 3 days off get 13 off
    take 4 off get 15 off

  5. #5
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    The department I used to work for did 24 on with days off going 24-48-24-96. You'd think it's hard to keep track of when you work, but you get used to it. The shift schedule looked like: ACACBABACBCB. Since it's still 10 shifts/month we got FLSA pay.

    It worked out good for OT because you could work your 24 off (less commute time), or in the middle of your 96 (no 48 straight). Where I currently work, most of the guys live in outlying communities, which would make the 24-off a pain.

    I was going to mention my current department is thinking of going to 48/96 too, then I found out we work for the same one.

    Though the stats say you're home more with 48/96, 48 hours is still going to be a long stretch to my wife and kids. She's opposed to it.
    Last edited by agavegrove; 10-15-2008 at 11:02 PM. Reason: same dept in question

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by residents View Post
    We work a 24/48 with a kelly day witch equals 6 24hr shifts off a year.
    Only 6 Kelly's a year? I guess you WOULD be working all the time. I think our schedule works out to 17 Kelly's a year.

  7. #7
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    for a busy dept the berkley is the best way to go. the 4 days off give you a lot of time off and you don't get burnt out as fast.

  8. #8
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    Ok- Here we go...

    - The 3/4 schedule is called "Berkeley" or "Detroit modified".

    - The 2/4 schedule is a 56 hour work week and someone in here said the 1/2 equals a 48 hour work week. Well guess what, the 2/4 gives you 20 more 4 days a years over the 3/4. Over all, if you want more time off with your family and kids, the 2/4 aka 48/96 is the way to go.

    - More- Some very large FDs (Alb, NM, Sac City, Sac Metro) are on this schedule and love it. Less driving on the road, less wear and tear on the POV, LESS GAS bought by employee and sick leave goes down.

    - Real life example- In the LA, CA area, a married FF couple (male and female) work 24 hours shifts. He is on the 2/4 and she is on the 3/4. She tells me everytime I talk to her on the phone how much better she wants the 2/4 schedule and wishes she could go to it.

    I am not an expert on the schedule, but have been sharing the information with people around the nation about it. I have documents, reports and Power Points. Please email me at brettbouk@yahoo for everything.

    Also check out this website- www.48-96.com

    Also did a search for you-

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=62704
    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=40691
    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthre...ighlight=48x96
    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthre...ighlight=48x96
    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthre...ighlight=48x96
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 10-16-2008 at 07:42 PM.

  9. #9
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    Ok. I know I am not a math major, so I may need a little help here. The forty-eight on, ninety-six off is a fifty-six hour work week. That means that over the course of a year, I will average fifty-six hours per week in the engine house.

    If I work a twenty-four on, forty-eight off schedule that averages out to a forty-two hour work week, how does working fifty-six hours a week get me more time with my family?


    Maybe I have it all wrong here, but as a local we are always trying to get more time off, etc...not more time in the engine house.
    I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I am looking for a decent answer. I realize with the forty-eight/ninety-six you will travel less to and from work, but it is still more actual time in the engine house than a forty-two, or even a forty-eight hour work week.

    Even on a forty-eight hour work week, you work 416 hours less over the course of a calender year. That's seventeen days, plus change.
    Last edited by jasper45; 10-16-2008 at 08:22 PM.

  10. #10
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    Well, most FDs I know are a three platoon system that equals 56 hour work week. With one off and two off, youre doing more driving to and from work.

    On the 1/2 schedule, if you work the Sunday, then youre going to work THREE times that week. If youre 48x96, its ONE to TWO times a week.

    And remember this, on the 48x96 schedule, if you take two days vacation or sick leave, then it TEN days off straight. Think about it.

    Time and gas is money.

  11. #11
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    Well, most FDs I know are a three platoon system that equals 56 hour work week.
    That's what we are, three platoons. It's the number of kelley days, or work reduction days that make the difference. They're days to knock down our actual hours worked, which means we're not in the engine house. It works out to every fifth work day, I get paid to stay home. Other places draw a work reduction every ninth day, which is a forty-eight hour work week.


    With one off and two off, youre doing more driving to and from work.
    That's the part I get, no confusion at all.


    On the 1/2 schedule, if you work the Sunday, then youre going to work THREE times that week. If youre 48x96, its ONE to TWO times a week.
    Except for the weeks I have my work reduction, which is about every two weeks, or so.

    Time and gas is money.
    I still don't get how to sell working another 416 hours per year as being better.
    Every year we seek a "wish list" on what the members would like to see us work on for the next contract. More paid time away from the engine house is always on that list.

    That is seventeen more workdays per year than currently is worked here on the 24/48, with work reductions. That would be a mighty tough sell to the membership here, and a big hit to the city on it's over-time budget.
    The reason we have work-reduction days is to cut down on the FLSA mandated over-time pay. Adding hours by switching to this schedule would cost the city more money.



    I only bring it up in the spirit of the thread, in order to draw more information on the two schedules.

    I honestly believe that the actual hours worked per week average to be the most important part of a work schedule. If a current schedule/contract has guys working fifty-six hours per week, the 48/96 sounds like a fantastic schedule.
    If you have fewer hours per work week, like say forty-eight or so, I don't think it would be a very good move.


    I guess I don't see it as one being better than the other. Both have advantages and disadvantages, depending on your current contracts and work schedules.
    Last edited by jasper45; 10-16-2008 at 09:34 PM.

  12. #12
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    Jasper a pure 24/48 and 48/96 schedule are both 56 hour work weeks. They only become 48 or 42 hour work weeks when kelly days (im assuming this is the "work reduction" you refer to) are introduced. I think what he is trying to say, is that if you took the same number of kelly days that you have on the 24/48 schedule and applied them against a 48/96 schedule, then you would have more time w/ family less time commuting. So lets say for example you get 20 kelly days per year right now, on the 48/96 schedule you would get 10x 48 hour kellys, keeping your total hours worked the same. Does this help at all ?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    I guess I don't see it as one being better than the other. Both have advantages and disadvantages, depending on your current contracts and work schedules.

    Jasper45- All I can do is make you a real promise. If I put you and your crew on the 48/96 for the next 3 to 4 months and then asked you with schedule you liked better, atleast 75% of the crew members would opt for the 48/96.

    There is not a doubt in my mind. Its the best work schedule for commuting and raising a family.

  14. #14
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4southside3 View Post
    Jasper a pure 24/48 and 48/96 schedule are both 56 hour work weeks. They only become 48 or 42 hour work weeks when kelly days (im assuming this is the "work reduction" you refer to) are introduced. I think what he is trying to say, is that if you took the same number of kelly days that you have on the 24/48 schedule and applied them against a 48/96 schedule, then you would have more time w/ family less time commuting. So lets say for example you get 20 kelly days per year right now, on the 48/96 schedule you would get 10x 48 hour kellys, keeping your total hours worked the same. Does this help at all ?

    It helps, except that the original post was talking about the 24/48 with the work reduction days.
    It does sound better when it's a 56 hour work week being compared, but that really isn't what is being talked about.

    I just can't figure out how being in the firehouse 17 more days per year is more time with my family, or off.
    I understand that I may earn more money by working 56 hours a week, but money isn't everything. We negotiated long and hard to have our work weeks reduced.

    Either way, I wa just trying to help the original poster out by talking about more points on both schedules.

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