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  1. #1
    CPTGRIDER
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    Default Aerial Platforms...Pros and Cons

    Looking for information of aerial platforms to help on building specs. Need info. on rearmount vs. midmount, steel vs. aluminum ladders, and additional info., ideas, or innovations that you may find interesting or helpful to a new truck committee.

    The truck will be set up not as a quint but a truck company...the engine, pump, and transmission is already set. Along with a min. length of 95 feet. Any other pros and cons of the remainder would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks for your time and cooperation, cptgrider.


  2. #2
    Forum Member MTKROUSH's Avatar
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    Will the truck just primarily be a truck company or will it run as an engine company when another piece of equipment is out of service? I ask because if it will rarely or never be used as an engine you can save alot of money by dropping the pump, tank and hosebed.

    Now Rearmount or mid mount. My department runs rear mount. There are many rear mounts in my county. There is also one Tractor drawn so it's all preference. You can spec a lot more compartment space with the rear mount though. you can spin a rear mount 360 degrees without much interference from the cab. But Mid mounts do have a lower profile and can fit into some low clearence places that the taller rear mount wont.

    Ladder construction. Aluminum is lighter, don't corode as easy, but has to be tested much more carefully than steel. Again it's preference

    I do prefer that ground ladders be stored inside. Make sure when you spec the truck that you do write into spec for the truck to meet NFPA standard 1901. You'll pay for all that equipment on the front end, but you'll have it. It will all be new. Most importantly you or your department don't have to pull out your 1901 ariel checklist and make sure you have or have to purchase every little axe, adaptor, salvage cover, and all that other stuff
    To err is human, To forgive divine and at times I am as much of both as you will ever find

  3. #3
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    I just went through this exact same thing with my dept. we spent 3 years doing home work to replace out truck.

    this will give you some insite on Aluminum ladder;
    http://www.e-one.com/pdf/Aerial_White_Paper.pdf

    Also....generaly, aluminum ladders have more room on the ladder sections and higher hand rails than steel. This was one of the main reasons we went with Aluminum.

    I have a power point on mid mounts, pm me your e-mail and i can send it to you...It talks about pros and cons, and some differences between manufatcurers.

    One thing you have to look at with mid mounts is the reaer over hang...from center of rear tandems to the tail board. Some of them are MASSIVE. If I remember correctly Pierce was the worst at about 16' +.. thats alot of *** swingin around when you turn.

    Rear mounts have the front over hang. wich personally i can't stand. I've driven the one in my town twice....and I hate it. it's like having a porch roof hanging over the front of the truck.

    Do not do dual deck guns. I's a waste of money... you will never be able to flow capacity from both guns at the same time. Now I have seen companies that put them both up there but have a valve to select wich gun, then they put a smooth bore on one and a combination on the other. But thats alot of money and tip load just so YOU don't have ro actually change the nozzle.

    thats all i can think of now... I'll have to dig through my desk and find all my notes.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoofTopTrucky View Post
    I just went through this exact same thing with my dept. we spent 3 years doing home work to replace out truck.

    this will give you some insite on Aluminum ladder;
    http://www.e-one.com/pdf/Aerial_White_Paper.pdf
    Yes, it is a nice White Paper. That said, I certainly hope people are not actually basing their entire aerial purchase on the thermal conductivity of the material. The paper was written only to cover one argument their competitors made against them. While it does a great job of that, it just doesn't offer much else other than platitudes and engineering doublespeak.

  5. #5
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    Talking E-One White Paper

    I suspect the White Paper was written as a response to all the Pierce sales people that ran around for 15 years claiming the aluminum style aerial would melt or lose strength when placed near a fire. Now Pierce is selling aluminum aerials. Go figure!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    I suspect the White Paper was written as a response to all the Pierce sales people that ran around for 15 years claiming the aluminum style aerial would melt or lose strength when placed near a fire. Now Pierce is selling aluminum aerials. Go figure!
    Thats exactly what I was thinking....lol I just find it funny.... look at it this way..... hypotheticaly.........5 years ago you were purchasing your first aerial, and you decided to go with a pierce becasue of how great their Steel aerial is, and how it's so much better than aluminum...... here you are 5 years later and the the same people who told you not to by aluminum ladders are making their own. I know if that were me...I'd have a small case of the What the F*@ks. Makes you wonder....

    One thing you can't take away from Sutphen or E-One......neither have ever had an aerial failure. Don't know about you... but when I'm specing an aerial, and I know my *** is going to be up there.....i take that into consideration. Granted it dosent happen often, but I don't want to be the one on it when/if it dose happen.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoofTopTrucky View Post
    Thats exactly what I was thinking....lol I just find it funny.... look at it this way..... hypotheticaly.........5 years ago you were purchasing your first aerial, and you decided to go with a pierce becasue of how great their Steel aerial is, and how it's so much better than aluminum...... here you are 5 years later and the the same people who told you not to by aluminum ladders are making their own. I know if that were me...I'd have a small case of the What the F*@ks. Makes you wonder....

    One thing you can't take away from Sutphen or E-One......neither have ever had an aerial failure. Don't know about you... but when I'm specing an aerial, and I know my *** is going to be up there.....i take that into consideration. Granted it dosent happen often, but I don't want to be the one on it when/if it dose happen.
    Or, for that matter, 15 years ago their ladder was the best on the market but now the Smeal ladder isn't as good since Pierce is no longer buying it. Good enough to copy but.....

    When Pierce introduced their aluminum body to compete against E-One many, many years ago, they only sold a handful in the first year. The dealers had a hard time promoting it after years of trashing aluminum bodies.

  8. #8

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    Give me the pro and cons of Midmount tower ladder Vs. Rear Mount and why we should not buy another 100' stick.

    I say midmount others say Rear. What do you use and is there a white paper out there for reasoning and purchase of a Mid mount.. 95' to 100'

    under 47' long and under 11' 8" high.

    Please and Thank You So I have ammunition to use against the rear mount rear mount guys..

  9. #9
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
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    Mid's get your turntable closer to the fire when you drive in so you end up with a longer effective ladder, but then you have to swing the stick 180 to use it and you usually have to lift it over the cab so there is a min height issue over the nose. Mids usually are shorter overall height.

    Rear's are further from building when you nose in by the length of the truck, but you can extend straight out from stowed position and you don't have to turn 180 (most of the places in my response area we could not use a mid due to over head wires and trees preventing a swing. Rear's tend to be taller, but also have more storage as a result.

    Alum vs steel... let me make it absolutely clear: I love my aluminum ladder! Steel corrodes from the inside out, you don't see what's going on inside. Yes aluminum cracks, we usually find a few 2-3 years, but they are easy to fix (by a certified factory trained welder) and I never worry about the metal thinning inside the tubes.

    E-One came out with a really nice 100' rear mount last year which I like a lot, I'd definitely say its worth checking out.
    Last edited by Fire304; 11-08-2008 at 07:14 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Oh,the way you talk! We've got damn near as many wires as you,and have used a MM ladder for years.You just have to be a little more clever threading the needle.Under 47' straight truck(no tank/pump)is easy.MM under 11'8' is easy.Our new one WITH tank and pump is coming in at 47'4 and 11'6.This is a platform.We went MM because of familiarity(have one)and the ability to cover more of the FB(firebuilding) from one spot REGARDLESS of if you drove in or backed in. T.C.

  11. #11
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    Just to add to TC"s comments on using the MM. We chose a MM for many of the already listed reason plus the fact that you can easily use it on the sidewalk as a master stream. In a congested downtown area with connected frame and ordinary construction we wanted the ability to use the monitor from the first floor to the fifth. This could be done with a RM if it was positioned just right, but you'd still be working the nozzle at nearly 90 degrees to the bucket.

    Also to maximize the tactical ability of a MM, I'd seriously warn against a raised roof cab. Just a few inches of cab height really effects the angle of the aerial over the cab. Similarly, a manual handle bar controlled monitor moves much faster than handwheels or electrics, for hitting fire in multiple windows. If you want a large caliber rain storm get dual electrics with TFT fog nozzles, if you want to use the MS as "offensively" as possible get a single manual gun with stacked tips.

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    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Welcome back! Hehe T. C.

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    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cptgrider View Post
    Looking for information of aerial platforms to help on building specs. Need info. on rearmount vs. midmount, steel vs. aluminum ladders, and additional info., ideas, or innovations that you may find interesting or helpful to a new truck committee.

    The truck will be set up not as a quint but a truck company...the engine, pump, and transmission is already set. Along with a min. length of 95 feet. Any other pros and cons of the remainder would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks for your time and cooperation, cptgrider.



    Hey Cap, stay with a steel for this rig. The heavy duty platform needs to be steel so it can hold up under extreme stress and working conditions.

    Remember it has to ride back and forth from the station even if you don't use the platform or raise it from its nest. This puts a lot of wear and tear just from the roads and bumping around up and down the streets.

    Get the local Pierce rep to come to your department and get outside the town or city and visit other departments and see what they are running and why.

    There are a lot of pros and cons regarding platform apparatus. One that the turntable at the rear may be better suited for your department than a mid mount one. Go with nothing less than 95 foot in length. The rear mount and mid mount each have different advantages.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Hey Cap, stay with a steel for this rig. The heavy duty platform needs to be steel so it can hold up under extreme stress and working conditions.
    So you are saying that Aerialscopes, with 3 aluminum sections cant hold up? Or that Sutphen and E-One platforms cant either? Have any data to support that claim?
    I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

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    So departments like Boston, Detroit, Charleston, and Orlando don't do anything? Every one of them plus hundreds of the other that run aluminum aerials all regret buying their aluminum aerials? The vaunted FDNY and all the depts that will run huge amounts of scopes and say they they are bulletproof? The rigs just sit in the bays and look pretty? Get off it. That's ridiculous. And of course the all knowing, all powerful Pierce is the only answer to all of your truck wants and needs!

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