1. #1
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    Default Middle East Firefighting (not contract)

    All,

    First, this has nothing to do with KBR/WSI.

    I am in Iraq with the U.S. military and received permission to work on a project to assess the Iraqi Fire Service. I'm just getting started, and need some help. I need to compare the effectiveness of Iraq's fire service to that of its neighbors, ie Jordan, Syria, Turkey, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, etc. The intent is to see how they match up in training, roles, and equipment, and see what we can do to advance their capabilities to bring them on par with their neighbors.

    I have been unable to find much info in the public domain, especially in English. I am already gathering information in country, but am looking for contacts with people who have been involved in prior fire service evaluations for the DoD or DoS since OIF I, or anyone who has traveled extensively and made contact with fire service leaders in those countries who could provide information.

    I am well aware that asking for this on a public forum is tantamount to begging, but I'm casting a wide net. I am also aware that the collection of statistical information and performance indicators is less common on this side of the world, but I have to start somewhere.

    For any info you don't want to post here, send me a PM but give me a head's up in the thread that you are doing so to prompt me to log in and check PMs.

    Please do not clog up the thread with rants against U.S. foreign policy, WSI, etc.

    Thanks for reading, and wish me luck,

    MGySgt V
    Last edited by gunnyv; 10-19-2008 at 03:29 PM. Reason: Add'l info

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    Gunny,
    I wish I could help you more.............but I will say this hurry home and be safe about it !!!!!!!!
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
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    Hey Gunny.....I wish you luck in your search and hopefully you get what you are looking for. Just asking to keep us posted on what you find, that would be some interesting reading.

    Stay safe bro!
    Jason Knecht
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    Altoona Fire Dept.
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    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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    Default looking for help?

    Hey, gunny I was a army firefighter at Camp Anaconda during OIF 1 and we would go out with the civil affairs teams and train and access the local iraqi fire departments. Also I was a WSI firefighter for a year. Then I joined the Army National Guard and volunteered to come back in the infantry and kick in doors. But the funnest time I had over there was training the iraqi's. If you need any help overthere I would be more than happy to help you. ALso when I employed by WSI the fire chief for the base I work on was the fire chief for the United Nations fire training program and gave me a lot of insight into dealing with other nationalities.

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    Ask Chief G on ths forum...he knows it all....

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    Hey, gunny I was a army firefighter at Camp Anaconda during OIF 1 and we would go out with the civil affairs teams and train and access the local iraqi fire departments. Also I was a WSI firefighter for a year. Then I joined the Army National Guard and volunteered to come back in the infantry and kick in doors. But the funnest time I had over there was training the iraqi's. If you need any help overthere I would be more than happy to help you. ALso when I employed by WSI the fire chief for the base I work on was the fire chief for the United Nations fire training program and gave me a lot of insight into dealing with other nationalities.
    You did? I was the NCOIC along with another E-6 for that business. Lynch, is that you?

    Gunny - I'll send you a PM on what we did.
    Last edited by Tiredoldman; 10-26-2008 at 11:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devildog4 View Post
    Ask Chief G on ths forum...he knows it all....

    Where on earth did THAT come from, DevilDog? I don't recall you two ever butting heads on here before.
    September 11th - Never Forget

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    He DOES know it all. Worked with him at Kwaj. I know he's been to several contract jobs in the middle east and has extensive knowledge to help this guy out....wasn't meant to be sarcastic

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    Quote Originally Posted by devildog4 View Post
    He DOES know it all. Worked with him at Kwaj. I know he's been to several contract jobs in the middle east and has extensive knowledge to help this guy out....wasn't meant to be sarcastic
    Oops, my booboo Sorry for the misunderstanding.
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
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    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

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    Hey guys,

    Thanks for the positive reinforcement. My job is to perform an assessment of the fire service throughout Anbar province. I'm going to be doing some traveling.

    I've been in contact with the Baghdad Provincial Reconstruction Team who are doing the same thing in their area, as well as Chief Triozzi of a UN related fire rescue consultation/training outfit. Mostly I'm on my own. My plan is to figure out what they have, if they are getting their fair share (the Sunni/Shiite divide?) and what we can do to bring them on par with the best equipped firefighters in the country. Then hopefully we can catch them up to the rest of the Middle East. I'm mostly looking at gear, the cultural and language issues get in the way of detailed inspection of training standards and SOPs. Unless someone knows a FF who speaks Arabic, the simplest terms get lost in translation. As far as training, they follow the European methods for the most part, so I'm not going to try to change their world.

    To satisfy some curiosity, Anbar is about the size of Wyoming (84K sq mi), with a population of 1.4 million. Most are in the Fallujah / Ramadi area.The fire service is nationalized and referred to as Civil defense. There are 18 fire stations in the whole province, but a couple are at border sites that are sparsely populated. 1 set of extrication tools in the province. No hydrants. No LDH. About 4 SCBA per firehouse and no bunker gear. Radios are scarce. Lots of FFs in each station, but limited equipment. The FFs work 24 hr shifts, 2 platoon system. They can perform first aid but are not dispatched for medicals. The ambulance system is separate and a real mess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    The ambulance system is separate and a real mess.
    ...Looks like some problems are universal my brother.

    Good luck, stay safe, Semper Fi
    Last edited by len1582; 05-09-2009 at 10:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    All,

    First, this has nothing to do with KBR/WSI.

    I am in Iraq with the U.S. military and received permission to work on a project to assess the Iraqi Fire Service. I'm just getting started, and need some help. I need to compare the effectiveness of Iraq's fire service to that of its neighbors, ie Jordan, Syria, Turkey, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, etc. The intent is to see how they match up in training, roles, and equipment, and see what we can do to advance their capabilities to bring them on par with their neighbors.

    I have been unable to find much info in the public domain, especially in English. I am already gathering information in country, but am looking for contacts with people who have been involved in prior fire service evaluations for the DoD or DoS since OIF I, or anyone who has traveled extensively and made contact with fire service leaders in those countries who could provide information.

    I am well aware that asking for this on a public forum is tantamount to begging, but I'm casting a wide net. I am also aware that the collection of statistical information and performance indicators is less common on this side of the world, but I have to start somewhere.

    For any info you don't want to post here, send me a PM but give me a head's up in the thread that you are doing so to prompt me to log in and check PMs.

    Please do not clog up the thread with rants against U.S. foreign policy, WSI, etc.

    Thanks for reading, and wish me luck,

    MGySgt V
    Hey Brother, I just was reading you info. I am wondering are you looking for some advice or looking for help in training these guys or trying to get the proper equipment to get donated to properly fight fire. I am a 11 year firefighter and if you have anything that maybe I could do or try to do, give me a shout on here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffparamedic28 View Post
    Hey Brother, I just was reading you info. I am wondering are you looking for some advice or looking for help in training these guys or trying to get the proper equipment to get donated to properly fight fire. I am a 11 year firefighter and if you have anything that maybe I could do or try to do, give me a shout on here.
    In a nutshell, I'm looking mostly for info on how other Middle East nation's firefighters are organized, trained and equipped, to compare them to the current state of the firefighters in Iraq. As much as I'd love the government to do it, I'm not going to get a contract worth umpteen million $$$ to train them. What I may be able to do is pull some of the reconstruction money into fire service needs.

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    Hey Gunny
    I spent 4 1/2 years in Iran as training officer for industrial/oilfield sector. I did have some liason with civilian depts in Shiraz and Isfahan. if its anywhere near the same in Iraq, you'll be starting from square 1 regards equipment and methodology plus the fact that firefighting is regarded by the population overall somewhat below street sweepers. I have a fair bit of info that we developed as there was basically nothing there when we started. Drop me a line at bryanloader@hotmail.com and I'll be glad to share whatever I have. Best of luck and come home safe

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    I will shoot you a PM shortly - I have done a reasonable amount of instructing for the Kuwait Fire Service Directorate. I'm fortunate in that I speak fluent Arabic, without that as you have pointed out you will struggle.
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

    ...and before you ask - YES I have done a Bloody SEARCH!

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    Here's my 5 cents.

    Saudi Arabia has a lot of money, and they tend to buy firetrucks in big batches, previously, they had a lot of Mercedes Benz 911 tankers and tenders that now are supposed to be replaced by newer equipment. They also have some american style firetrucks.

    They bought 300 fire tenders from Rosenbauer in 2007 that seem to be up with German/Austrian standards. I will send you a PM with a link to pictures of it.

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    Default Research Methods and statistics

    Hello Gunny. How is your project going? I know quite a bit about research methods and statistics. I am currently working on a Ph.D in Educational Psychology. I am also a firefighter/EMT and am currently interviewing for a position in the middle east. I find your comparative analysis interesting and would be willing to help you in any way I could. Please feel free to contact me at anytime. Thanks, good luck and be safe!
    trmcc27@gmail.com tabby1@temple.edu

    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    In a nutshell, I'm looking mostly for info on how other Middle East nation's firefighters are organized, trained and equipped, to compare them to the current state of the firefighters in Iraq. As much as I'd love the government to do it, I'm not going to get a contract worth umpteen million $$$ to train them. What I may be able to do is pull some of the reconstruction money into fire service needs.

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    Taking command.
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    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

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    Hello all,

    Just returned to the states today from the deployment. I was able to start a few projects for the Iraqi firefighters in Anbar, and worked with some other US firefighters on training issues nationwide. It was a great experience and I wanted anyone who was following along to know I made it back and I appreciate the help and concern.

    trmc,
    Thanks for the offer, but I'm done. I wasn't able to do any statistical analysis, due to a lack of information available. My report mainly concerned the generic fire problem as I saw it, the capabilities of the Iraqis, and the equipment and facilities available to them.

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    Default Welcome Home

    Good to have you back home. Best of luck! Be safe and well.
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    Hello all,

    Just returned to the states today from the deployment. I was able to start a few projects for the Iraqi firefighters in Anbar, and worked with some other US firefighters on training issues nationwide. It was a great experience and I wanted anyone who was following along to know I made it back and I appreciate the help and concern.

    trmc,
    Thanks for the offer, but I'm done. I wasn't able to do any statistical analysis, due to a lack of information available. My report mainly concerned the generic fire problem as I saw it, the capabilities of the Iraqis, and the equipment and facilities available to them.

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    Default Team America

    That is one funny movie...Durka Durka!
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    Taking command.

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    Welcome back gunny Glad to see you made it safely.

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    Welcome Home.

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