1. #1
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    Default Calling for Water; Private Dwelling

    Firehouse Poll

    If your engine is stretching a handline to a bedroom fire on the second floor of a dwelling, at what point will you call for water?

    At the entrance to the structure: 53% (4192)

    At the bottom of the stairway: 15% (1170)

    At the top of the stairway: 30% (2402)

    Not sure: 2% (129)

    Other - N/A: 1% (70)

    Total Votes: 7963
    (as of 0749 hours, 27 October)


    For Discussion:
    What are your department's reasons for when you will call for water?
    Which is a greater consideration in this decision, sizeup or staffing?
    If working off of tank water, do you have a method where your operator will advise you of your supply?
    "If you put the fire out right in the first place, you won't have to jump out the window."
    Andy Fredericks,
    FDNY E.48, SQ.18
    Alexandria, VA F.D.

    Rest in Peace

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    I wonder what "OTHER" was? Is that where the pump operator is too excited and charges the hose while it is still in the hosebed?

    Top of the stairs. Size-up without a doubt for most normal homes.

    If the fire is actually a room and contents, then the top of the stairs is fine. No reason to make it more difficult than it needs to be dragging the hose up the stairs. We're also going to cause less damage by not dragging charged hose all over the house. If the fire is blowing out into the hallway, that is a little different and I'd want it charged at the bottom of the stairs.

    If the house is one of these mammoth places, then manpower can become an issues as well. Dragging a charged hoseline across the 2 acre house to get to the stairs is pretty pointless and would require way more work than necessary.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Pretty much what nmfire said.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Charge it at the front door. You can what if all the other options to death. Charging at the front door is your safest option. The only argument against this is carrying and advancing a charged line. We all should be able to effectivley advance a hoseline in a private dwelling without a problem.

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    I'm with Bones and nmfire. It depends on the situation and what we find when we enter, also depends on number and who I have with me. I have no problem for a room and contents waiting until we reach the top of the stairs to charge the line.

    Having said that, I will comment that I was taught in FF1 to always charge at the front door. The reasoning is that it is safer, you don't have to wait for water if you get surprised by the extent of the fire, and you can see the hoseline to check for kinks before entering the structure.

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    I also wondered about the "Other". Maybe they only have one story buildings in their area. I just hope the "Not Sure" never have to make the call. It could end up being charged two houses away.
    Our first in engine will drop the tank if there's no close working hydrant. Our method of the "operator advising of the supply" is by radio.

    BKDRAFT....How many do you have on an engine to drag the line?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    I wonder what "OTHER" was? Is that where the pump operator is too excited and charges the hose while it is still in the hosebed?

    Top of the stairs. Size-up without a doubt for most normal homes.

    If the fire is actually a room and contents, then the top of the stairs is fine. No reason to make it more difficult than it needs to be dragging the hose up the stairs. We're also going to cause less damage by not dragging charged hose all over the house. If the fire is blowing out into the hallway, that is a little different and I'd want it charged at the bottom of the stairs.

    If the house is one of these mammoth places, then manpower can become an issues as well. Dragging a charged hoseline across the 2 acre house to get to the stairs is pretty pointless and would require way more work than necessary.
    Spot on. My only input would be that this option is easier with the right amount of man power. If you have a 4th man on the engine that can help get the hose out of the bed and to the door, he can stay down stairs and keep eye contact on his boys and make the call for them when given the signal. If lower man power, charge at the door and muscle it through.
    -Rob
    Greater love has no man than to lay his life down for a friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    I wonder what "OTHER" was? Is that where the pump operator is too excited and charges the hose while it is still in the hosebed?

    Top of the stairs. Size-up without a doubt for most normal homes.

    If the fire is actually a room and contents, then the top of the stairs is fine. No reason to make it more difficult than it needs to be dragging the hose up the stairs. We're also going to cause less damage by not dragging charged hose all over the house. If the fire is blowing out into the hallway, that is a little different and I'd want it charged at the bottom of the stairs.

    If the house is one of these mammoth places, then manpower can become an issues as well. Dragging a charged hoseline across the 2 acre house to get to the stairs is pretty pointless and would require way more work than necessary.
    Yep........
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Most of the time our procedure is to have the pump operator charge it after 10-15 seconds of the crew going in the door. This usually translates to the top of the stairs. As nozzleman I still have the choice of deciding how far to advance before I get my water. I prefer to be past as many obstacles (furniture and corners) as possible before getting it charged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YFDLt08 View Post
    Most of the time our procedure is to have the pump operator charge it after 10-15 seconds of the crew going in the door. This usually translates to the top of the stairs. As nozzleman I still have the choice of deciding how far to advance before I get my water. I prefer to be past as many obstacles (furniture and corners) as possible before getting it charged.
    What?????

    You have the pump operator arbitrarily charge the line 10-15 seconds after the line goes into the door?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    What?????

    You have the pump operator arbitrarily charge the line 10-15 seconds after the line goes into the door?
    Whats wrong with that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by len1582 View Post

    BKDRAFT....How many do you have on an engine to drag the line?
    Four.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    Four.......
    You're doing pretty good. There are two depts by me that rides an officer and two. One being handcuffed to the hydrant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eng34FF View Post
    Having said that, I will comment that I was taught in FF1 to always charge at the front door. The reasoning is that it is safer, you don't have to wait for water if you get surprised by the extent of the fire, and you can see the hoseline to check for kinks before entering the structure.
    As Eng34FF stated, if you follow it by the book then your line should be charged before making entrance to the structure. However, in reality you should just make the decision by observation. Some cases would indicate having a charged line before entrance, but this instance I would most likely charge the line at the top of the stairs.
    ________________________
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    Quote Originally Posted by len1582 View Post
    You're doing pretty good. There are two depts by me that rides an officer and two. One being handcuffed to the hydrant.
    Unfortunately, there's also a lot that only have 2 per engine.

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    I would say circumstances dictate actions..........

    If you have a small cape cod, or cottage type house, or the stairs are directly in front of the front door, charging the line at the front door is fine. It doesn't take much to hump a 1 3/4 line a small distance. If the stairs are located towards the back, it is easier to run the line dry before charging it. The one thing that must be remembered when running a dry line is that when it gets charged, it might get caught on something. At my station, the OIC will call for water when ready. Since I will normally chase the line all the way to the front door, by the time I get there he may say when he wants the water. We normally have only two on the engine, unless we are lucky enough to have the ambo crew in quarters to make up staffing.
    Chris Polimeni
    Prince George's County FD
    Back at the Big 29er

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