Thread: Hose Bed Lay

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    Question Hose Bed Lay

    My fire department is looking to possibly change the way we have our 1 3/4 lines in our cross-lay. We currenly use Tripple Lay which some of us like, and some don't. My question is what do you recommend using and why? Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by willings413 View Post
    My fire department is looking to possibly change the way we have our 1 3/4 lines in our cross-lay. We currenly use Tripple Lay which some of us like, and some don't. My question is what do you recommend using and why? Thanks!
    It really depends on your district and the way you deploy your lines.

    A triple layer load is good if you have mostly storefront/short setback properties and you want to get the line off and charged in a tight area. it stinks if you need to stretch it through larger buildings or around obstacles.

    A minuteman load is great if you want to stretch around alot of obstacles and have deep/large buildings, long setbacks and places like garden apartments. The nature of the load allows the hose to be shoulder loaded and placed around things (like a trail of bread crumbs for a crude analogy) as you stretch it.

    Flat loads are good if you like to easily pull and break a line to take only whats needed. If you use hand loops on them and flip the loads over you can make them work similarly to a minuteman.

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    As MG pointed out, flatloads are the more versatile load which is what I like about them. Easy to lead/deploy and when you need to get around tight corners and obstacles just flip the load and shoulder load it.

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    We use minute man load of 200' preconnect. 100' is on your shoulder you can flake it out the driver pulls out the rest. It works real well for a majority of our private dwellings. We actually have them coming off the hose bed which is best. You pull the engine past the house and your lines come off the back.

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    Exclamation Nothing Fancy.................

    Whatever you end up doing, KEEP IT SIMPLE.

    My personal preference - Hose Tray one piece of hose wide. Connect the female coupling to the discharge. Rack the hose flat. When you think you have enough hose, put the nozzle on the male coupling. Nozzle lays on top of load.

    When you want to use the line Grab the Nozzle and Run! When you run out of hose, you'll stop.

    This is as simple as it gets, No shoulder load, no twists and turns, nothing. Just Grab it and get going. Despite a lot of critic's dire predictions, I've not had much problem with turns, stairways, etc.

    Maybe one of our FDNY folks could tell you about making up a line from the Bed, no preconnect or anything............
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    Thank you all so much for your input. As I stated before right now we're using a Tripple Lay, and the problem I've noticed we've had is alot of kinks. We are a rural department with minimal response to large structures. Usually all we deal with are one to two story residential structures.

    Another problem I've noticed is alot of the guys have different "ideas" on how to load the tripple lay, and usually the end result is an unsuccessful deployment of the hose lay. So i'm wondering if maybe just going to a flat load would be beneficial.
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    Default God I hope your joking!

    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Whatever you end up doing, KEEP IT SIMPLE.

    My personal preference - Hose Tray one piece of hose wide. Connect the female coupling to the discharge. Rack the hose flat. When you think you have enough hose, put the nozzle on the male coupling. Nozzle lays on top of load.

    When you want to use the line Grab the Nozzle and Run! When you run out of hose, you'll stop.

    This is as simple as it gets, No shoulder load, no twists and turns, nothing. Just Grab it and get going. Despite a lot of critic's dire predictions, I've not had much problem with turns, stairways, etc.

    Maybe one of our FDNY folks could tell you about making up a line from the Bed, no preconnect or anything............

    Take the nozzle and run? Uh huh ok... Sounds like you have something against FDNY guys huh... Ok not even gonna go into it..

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    Quote Originally Posted by willings413 View Post
    Thank you all so much for your input. As I stated before right now we're using a Tripple Lay, and the problem I've noticed we've had is alot of kinks. We are a rural department with minimal response to large structures. Usually all we deal with are one to two story residential structures.

    Another problem I've noticed is alot of the guys have different "ideas" on how to load the tripple lay, and usually the end result is an unsuccessful deployment of the hose lay. So i'm wondering if maybe just going to a flat load would be beneficial.

    Do the crosslays come off both sides of the engine?
    I would say flat load with loops would be to the way to go, don't really have to worry about someone changing how its packed. The only decision is where you place your loops (50', 100' mark). I personally like loops under the top 50' which i pull onto my shoulder and the next set of loops at the 100' or 150' mark which I turn around and grab with my other hand. It allows you to drop the second set of loops in a set spot dependant on how much hose you will need to complete the stretch. Then you still have that last 50' "working lenght"... If its a rear hose bed minute man works good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willings413 View Post
    Thank you all so much for your input. As I stated before right now we're using a Tripple Lay, and the problem I've noticed we've had is alot of kinks. We are a rural department with minimal response to large structures. Usually all we deal with are one to two story residential structures.

    Another problem I've noticed is alot of the guys have different "ideas" on how to load the tripple lay, and usually the end result is an unsuccessful deployment of the hose lay. So i'm wondering if maybe just going to a flat load would be beneficial.
    There is always more than one way to get the right answer, especially with hose loads. We run with triples and they work for us. We run a lot of structures with short front yards or commercial setbacks, what this load was made for. I would suggest getting everyone on the same page on how your dept wants their beds loaded. No matter what your hose load is, if different crews/members are all not on the same page that can mess up any load. Figure out your (dept) way to load it, train to test it, then get everyone together on it.

    Just to jump on the "what we do" wagon. two 1 3/4" preconnects in a triple, front bumper line 100' 1 3/4" flat (so we can only flake off 50' for a nuisance fire if we wish). Our 2 1/2" is 200' in a modified triple. The first 100 (truck half) are flat then the second (nozzle half) 100 is tripled. Basically it puts 100' on your shoulder so the slack is up near the nozzle instead of all the way back to the truck. It sounds a bit odd, and I was a sceptic when the load was introduced, but it works pretty well. I know you could do the same thing with a flat load, but it works well and the (big) boss wants it loaded that way.
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    Our station uses the flat lay, without the loops though. We find it easiest since we have mostly residents and they're usually 30 feet off the street. Flat lay allows us to pull and go.

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    We used the tripple pack for a lot of years and I think it's a great load for low manpower situations. 1 person can pull the load and once pulled, there is minimal flaking required. I've been able to pull the load parallel to the engine with no problems. The one thing that people unfamiliar with the load tend to do is have a second person pull hose out of the crosslay. You do end up with spagetti if you do that. Drilling and making sure everybody understands how to pull the load is important.

    The other down side was that it was so difficult to load that we didn't pull the load to practice or hesitated on some calls just to avoid re-racking the line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by js4462 View Post
    Take the nozzle and run? Uh huh ok... Sounds like you have something against FDNY guys huh... Ok not even gonna go into it..
    I don't believe Harve has something against FDNY. He's simply mentioning that the FDNY members here could provide better, factual information on how they make the stretch, seeing as they do not run with preconnected lengths.

    As far as my opinion, the only way I see the flat load being successful is if you have all your hose setup this way, and you have the staffing and training to properly use it. There is a difference between arriving and determining 'what can I reach with my 200' line' and the 'fire is on the second floor, how much hose will I need?' Most companies I've seen, that use the flat load, have a universal problem of someone coming behind the nozzleman and simpy pulling off a pile of hose and leaving it at the bottom of the pump panel, never flaking out the lengths.

    With anything, it all takes experiment and consistent training.
    "If you put the fire out right in the first place, you won't have to jump out the window."
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcarey View Post
    I don't believe Harve has something against FDNY. He's simply mentioning that the FDNY members here could provide better, factual information on how they make the stretch, seeing as they do not run with preconnected lengths.

    As far as my opinion, the only way I see the flat load being successful is if you have all your hose setup this way, and you have the staffing and training to properly use it. There is a difference between arriving and determining 'what can I reach with my 200' line' and the 'fire is on the second floor, how much hose will I need?' Most companies I've seen, that use the flat load, have a universal problem of someone coming behind the nozzleman and simpy pulling off a pile of hose and leaving it at the bottom of the pump panel, never flaking out the lengths.

    With anything, it all takes experiment and consistent training.

    I agree you should try to set up all your pre-connected lines the same. I also agree experience with the type of hose load you choose is key, if not experience, play with it see what you can do. Just keep the load simple, take your so called "weakest" member and make it so he can stretch it and pack it...
    The flat load is very easy to pack, as far as stretching it I think some have a tendency to do what someone said above grab the nozzle and run. That is not an effective way to stretch an attack line. As with everything training on it is key. I run with a short staffed engine so I estimate what I will need and grab my working length on my sholder, and grab the next set of loops with my other arm, which gives me a total of 150' of 1 3/4". Then based on where I'm going and how much I need I drop the load I'm dragging and continue with the working length. Just how I personally stretch the flat load. Now of course for a car fire or something of that nature I grab the top 50' and maybe one or two extra folds and go.

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    We use the tripple lay and a flat lay with loops on the second flaking of hose. It all depends who is around when we need to do it. The thing I like about the tripple layer is when you get that excited pump operator that sees the lines is off the truck and thinks it needs to be charged it really doesn't F up the operation. With the other lay you pull it off the truck and if it's not deployed and they charge it then you have a mess. Though we really don't have that big of a problem with our pump operators these days.

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    I have used the minute man, a modified minute man, and the triple lay. In my opinion the minute man is by far the best. It is easy to pull by simply placing the shoulder load on your shoulder and pulling the dead load making sure not to let go before it is taught. It also allows you to flake it so it is easy to advance into the building.

    We use the triple layer at work out here at school and I am not a big fan of it. Maybe I feel that way because I am still getting used to it.(I have yet to pull it on an actual incident) It also seems unnecessarily(sp) complicated to rack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Whatever you end up doing, KEEP IT SIMPLE.

    My personal preference - Hose Tray one piece of hose wide. Connect the female coupling to the discharge. Rack the hose flat. When you think you have enough hose, put the nozzle on the male coupling. Nozzle lays on top of load.

    When you want to use the line Grab the Nozzle and Run! When you run out of hose, you'll stop.

    This is as simple as it gets, No shoulder load, no twists and turns, nothing. Just Grab it and get going. Despite a lot of critic's dire predictions, I've not had much problem with turns, stairways, etc.

    Maybe one of our FDNY folks could tell you about making up a line from the Bed, no preconnect or anything............

    "Grab the Nozzle and Run! When you run out of hose you'll stop".

    I think you have lost a certain degree of credibility with this statement. I would not want anything to do with operating a line that was stretched in this manner. And I am pretty sure I am not alone.

    But you do what you want. As utterly unprofessional as it is.

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    Post Well...........

    We were talking about Simplicity. This is as simple as it gets. There are places where this load works very well, and there are places where it just couldn't cut it. The individuals who work on the rigs are the folks who figure out what works best for them. Our Fires go out faster than in a lot of other places, so we must be doing something right..........
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    I like hwoods style, but I'm not on the truck committee.

    Our crosslays are three widths wide for attack line, and we have 200' of hose on our crosslays.

    Flat load 150' of hose - loops if you like at 50' and 100'

    Nozzle and last 50' strapped togehter with velcro

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    Thumbs up Yep..............

    Quote Originally Posted by bcarey View Post
    I don't believe Harve has something against FDNY. He's simply mentioning that the FDNY members here could provide better, factual information on how they make the stretch, seeing as they do not run with preconnected lengths.

    That's what I thought I said.....................
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610 View Post
    It really depends on your district and the way you deploy your lines.

    A triple layer load is good if you have mostly storefront/short setback properties and you want to get the line off and charged in a tight area. it stinks if you need to stretch it through larger buildings or around obstacles.

    A minuteman load is great if you want to stretch around alot of obstacles and have deep/large buildings, long setbacks and places like garden apartments. The nature of the load allows the hose to be shoulder loaded and placed around things (like a trail of bread crumbs for a crude analogy) as you stretch it.

    Flat loads are good if you like to easily pull and break a line to take only whats needed. If you use hand loops on them and flip the loads over you can make them work similarly to a minuteman.
    We had a great oppertunity here were we had come to a very simular junction. We have a mix of large residental houses "mcmansion", garden and mid rise apartments, and low level commercial and light industrial in my first due. In second due area we have close set backs and lots of bungelows and a mix of commercial. We decided to change to 300 ft of 1 3/4" flat loaded with ears at the 50 and 150 marks, 2 stacks wide. Best for our various lenghths or stretches. We also teach to do the "improvised minuteman" as taught by Bill Gusten in FE Preconnects articles. Also we often stretch and break off what we need. This set up works well for us running 4 or 5 man forward-laying engine companies.

    Please tell us your manpower and typical operational settings.

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