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    Default Cheney Endorses McCain

    DICK CHENEY: And in three days we'll choose a new steward for the presidency and begin a new chapter in our history. It's the biggest decision that we make together as Americans. A lot turns on the outcome. I believe the right leader for this moment in history is Senator John McCain. John is a man who understands the danger facing America. He's a man who has looked into the face of evil and not flinched. He's a man who's comfortable with responsibility and has been since he joined the armed forces at the age of 17. He's earned our support and confidence, and the time is now to make him commander-in-chief. I'm delighted to support John McCain and I'm pleased that he's chosen a running mate with executive talent, toughness and common sense, our next vice president in Sarah Palin."

    Update: Obama responded by saying, "I'd like to congratulate Senator McCain on this endorsement because he really earned it."


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    Default Some Key Obama endorsements

    Endorsing Obama:
    • Ahmed Yousef, chief political adviser to the Prime Minister of Hamas
    • Louis Farrakhan, National Representative for the Nation of Islam
    • Ségolène Royal, former French Socialist presidential candidate
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Endorsing Obama:
    • Ahmed Yousef, chief political adviser to the Prime Minister of Hamas
    • Louis Farrakhan, National Representative for the Nation of Islam
    • Ségolène Royal, former French Socialist presidential candidate
    I gues Louie's vote will cancel out the energizer bunnys.

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    Forum Member FireEeyore's Avatar
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    Default

    Endorsing McCain:

    George W. Bush...........

    Enough said...

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Endorsing Obama:
    • Ahmed Yousef, chief political adviser to the Prime Minister of Hamas
    • Louis Farrakhan, National Representative for the Nation of Islam
    • Ségolène Royal, former French Socialist presidential candidate
    You should add: Colin Powell, Former Secretary of State & War Hero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamewell45 View Post
    You should add: Colin Powell, Former Secretary of State & War Hero.
    Remind us all again what war he was a HERO in? Not degrading his military career, but he wasn't a hero in the "Audie Murphy" sense of the term. Powell was far more of an executive leader than actual soldier. McCain has far more retired Military leaders endorsing him than Barry does.

    Plus McCain has far more former SoS's in his camp than Obama.
    • George Shultz
    • Henry Kissinger
    • Alexander Haig
    • Lawrence Eagleburger
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Remind us all again what war he was a HERO in? Not degrading his military career, but he wasn't a hero in the "Audie Murphy" sense of the term. Powell was far more of an executive leader than actual soldier. McCain has far more retired Military leaders endorsing him than Barry does.

    Plus McCain has far more former SoS's in his camp than Obama.
    • George Shultz
    • Henry Kissinger
    • Alexander Haig
    • Lawrence Eagleburger
    You might try the Gulf War; I honestly don't think it matters whether or not you compare him to an "Audie Murphy" sense of the term. He just happened to advance up the ranks faster then McCain and his decisions directly had an impact on the strategy and thus the victory in the Gulf War. Additionally he is very respected both in the US and world wide for his wisdom on both domestic and foreign policy.

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    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamewell45 View Post
    You might try the Gulf War; I honestly don't think it matters whether or not you compare him to an "Audie Murphy" sense of the term. He just happened to advance up the ranks faster then McCain and his decisions directly had an impact on the strategy and thus the victory in the Gulf War. Additionally he is very respected both in the US and world wide for his wisdom on both domestic and foreign policy.
    I still have yet to see how you figure that he was a hero? I despise the use of the term hero. Perhaps during his actions as a platoon leader and company-grade officer in Viet Nam this might apply, but to be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during a war HARDLY makes one a war hero. Perhams Elmo Zumwalt, George Marshall, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Peter Pace......would you call any of them heroes? I certainly would not, and many are powerful names with long battle histories. I wouldn't even call Chester Nimitz or Douglas MacArthur war heroes, and they did FAR more than I would even venture any others did.

    Either way, no one's endorsement of any candidate changes my vote or makes me consider anyone any more than I already did. Everyone is in bed with everyone else.

    I am still not voting for either McCain or Obama. Both choices stink.


    And I agree, One cannot compare the actions of Colin Powell to 2nd Lt. Audie L. Murphy:

    http://www.hotlinecy.com/NeatStuff/AudieMurphyBook.pdf

    Read the citations for his actions. The term hero is too broadly, and too frequently used to describe anyone who runs into a burning building, shoots a basketball through a metal ring, or some guy wearing a uniform.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    "Show me a hero, and I'll prove he's a bum."
    -- Col. Greg "Pappy" Boyington USMC (CMH Winner)

    One of our crazy union guys likes to say that heroes aren't made, they're cornered. When I hear people talk about combat heroics that is the first thought that enters my mind. I don't believe anyone goes to war or starts a combat action thinking about the medals they're going to win that day.

    What is interesting is that Cheney waited this long to make his endorsement as vocal as he has right now. And Bush has been completely absent from both the RNC and practically invisible on the campaign trail.

    Their lack of presence says volumes. In that it would have destroyed any chance McCain might have had to win.
    Last edited by scfire86; 11-03-2008 at 09:47 AM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    "Show me a hero, and I'll prove he's a bum."
    -- Col. Greg "Pappy" Boyington USMC (CMH Winner)
    True. I have never seen an interview with a MOH recipient (I despise the use of the term "winner" when describing a MOH - not the CMH - recipient) where they thought that they were worthy of the medal. They always deflected the praise we layed on them to the men they served with, and whom they thought earned the medal. Not themselves.

    Even Greg Boyington, who was a cocksure, arrogant, Marine aviator was very humble about the Medal of Honor received.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    One of our crazy union guys likes to say that heroes aren't made, they're cornered. When I hear people talk about combat heroics that is the first thought that enters my mind. I don't believe anyone goes to war or starts a combat action thinking about the medals they're going to win that day.
    Usually those that rise to the occasion and are awarded the Medal of Honor, Navy Cross, DSC, DFC, Bronze or Silver stars are quite mild-mannered and rarely, if ever, would have been thought to have received it in combat. It is always the quiet ones. The shy ones. When their friends were pinned down, dying, bleeding, and screaming, it was them that rose to the occasion. For their friends and brothers on the field of battle - not for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    What is interesting is that Cheney waited this long to make his endorsement as vocal as he has right now. And Bush has been completely absent from both the RNC and practically invisible on the campaign trail.

    Their lack of presence says volumes. In that it would have destroyed any chance McCain might have had to win.
    Yup, wouldn't exactly help him out. Then again, no real endorsement does.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Perhams Elmo Zumwalt, George Marshall, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Peter Pace......would you call any of them heroes? I certainly would not, and many are powerful names with long battle histories. I wouldn't even call Chester Nimitz or Douglas MacArthur war heroes, and they did FAR more than I would even venture any others did.
    Yes I would consider them War Heroes as well. I'm not sure what your litmus test is to be considered a war hero, but i'm curious nonetheless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamewell45 View Post
    You should add: Colin Powell, Former Secretary of State & War Hero.
    I'm so very sorry. Colin Powell was a Secretary of State, he was also a Vietnam era platoon leader. Being Chairman of the Joint Chiefs during the Gulf War does not classify him as a war hero. I hate to tell you Powell is no war HERO.
    To err is human, To forgive divine and at times I am as much of both as you will ever find

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTKROUSH View Post
    I'm so very sorry. Colin Powell was a Secretary of State, he was also a Vietnam era platoon leader. Being Chairman of the Joint Chiefs during the Gulf War does not classify him as a war hero. I hate to tell you Powell is no war HERO.
    Care to elaborate more as to how you came to your decision?

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    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamewell45 View Post
    Yes I would consider them War Heroes as well. I'm not sure what your litmus test is to be considered a war hero, but i'm curious nonetheless.
    Being a CINC or COMMARFORPAC does not make one a war "hero."

    The lowly private, seaman, or operational officer making the tactical and strategic decisions with their own boots on the ground, not sitting in some office as a REMF.

    You'll just have to forgive (and if you won't forgive, just deal with) my lowly NCO brain that will trust a combat operator's brain much more than some Admiral or General.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamewell45 View Post
    Care to elaborate more as to how you came to your decision?
    For the same reason I just stated. A CINC, Chairman JCS, or even theater commander has VERY little to do with success on the battlefield. They make LARGE scale decisions, but it is the responsibility (in increasing levels) of the Regimental, Battalion, Company, Platoon, Squad, and Fireteam commanders to accomplish those goals.

    This is not meant as a demeaning comment, but those with little or no military experience/knowledge do not understand this concept.

    As a general rule, our nation's military has gotten away from putting flag-grade officers into hostile situations. For instance, the number of flag-grade officers killed in Viet Nam was 12. http://thewall-usa.com/summary.asp

    During World War II, that number was 40. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_U...in_World_War_2


    For this reason, General Colin Powell's service as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) who did not have boots on the ground, in hostile action. Even General Norman Schwarzkopf was in Riyadh - with extensive forward area assessments and meetings. While then Gen. Powell oversaw the overall operations in Saudi, Kuwiat, and Iraq - he was responsible all military operations of the United States on a global scale. This is a management position, not an operational position.

    If you want to know what war "hero" is, spend some time looking at these:

    http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html
    http://browser.grik.net/medalofhonor...tsByBranch.htm
    http://articles.latimes.com/2006/may/01/local/me-cross1
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Kasal

    While the Medal of Honor is the nation's highest military citation for honor and gallantry on the field of battle - the citations for the Navy Cross, Bronze Star, Silver Star, DFC, are equally notable.

    If that does not stir you to understand what some people consider to be a "war hero", read the citations for combat medics, Corpsmen, and the lone Air Force Pararescue Jumper citation for valor of medical personnel under fire.

    If you think that someone with 4 stars on their collar in an office in Brussels, Honolulu, Washington D.C., or Tampa, Florida meet the level of "war hero" in comparison, that is your choice - but it must be put into perspective.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    For the same reason I just stated. A CINC, Chairman JCS, or even theater commander has VERY little to do with success on the battlefield. They make LARGE scale decisions, but it is the responsibility (in increasing levels) of the Regimental, Battalion, Company, Platoon, Squad, and Fireteam commanders to accomplish those goals.

    This is not meant as a demeaning comment, but those with little or no military experience/knowledge do not understand this concept.

    As a general rule, our nation's military has gotten away from putting flag-grade officers into hostile situations. For instance, the number of flag-grade officers killed in Viet Nam was 12. http://thewall-usa.com/summary.asp

    During World War II, that number was 40. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_U...in_World_War_2


    For this reason, General Colin Powell's service as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) who did not have boots on the ground, in hostile action. Even General Norman Schwarzkopf was in Riyadh - with extensive forward area assessments and meetings. While then Gen. Powell oversaw the overall operations in Saudi, Kuwiat, and Iraq - he was responsible all military operations of the United States on a global scale. This is a management position, not an operational position.

    If you want to know what war "hero" is, spend some time looking at these:

    http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html
    http://browser.grik.net/medalofhonor...tsByBranch.htm
    http://articles.latimes.com/2006/may/01/local/me-cross1
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Kasal

    While the Medal of Honor is the nation's highest military citation for honor and gallantry on the field of battle - the citations for the Navy Cross, Bronze Star, Silver Star, DFC, are equally notable.

    If that does not stir you to understand what some people consider to be a "war hero", read the citations for combat medics, Corpsmen, and the lone Air Force Pararescue Jumper citation for valor of medical personnel under fire.

    If you think that someone with 4 stars on their collar in an office in Brussels, Honolulu, Washington D.C., or Tampa, Florida meet the level of "war hero" in comparison, that is your choice - but it must be put into perspective.
    Gen. Powell has been awarded a purple heart; bronze star, Legion of Merit (with oak cluster), so in my book and according to your description above, that makes Gen. Powell a hero.

  17. #17
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamewell45 View Post
    Gen. Powell has been awarded a purple heart; bronze star, Legion of Merit (with oak cluster), so in my book and according to your description above, that makes Gen. Powell a hero.
    For his actions in Viet Nam - not in the Gulf War which is how people took your post. No one has a problem with his actions in Viet Nam, it is the calling him a war "hero" (a term which I loathe and do not use) for his actions in Gulf War I that we take issue with.



    For instance, one of my former Gunnery Sergeants is now a Sergean Major for MCAGTF 29Palms in California and she was awarded the Bronze Star as well. I will never, ever refer to her as a war hero. I'd follow her into battle anyday, anytime. I'd lay my life down for her. But I would never use the term to describe her, John McCain, Colin Powell, Audie Murphy, or any other veteran who has been awarded any medal for valorious actions. It is not an appropriate term in my book.
    Last edited by DaSharkie; 11-04-2008 at 06:05 PM.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    For his actions in Viet Nam - not in the Gulf War which is how people took your post. No one has a problem with his actions in Viet Nam, it is the calling him a war "hero" (a term which I loathe and do not use) for his actions in Gulf War I that we take issue with.



    For instance, one of my former Gunnery Sergeants is now a Sergean Major for MCAGTF 29Palms in California and she was awarded the Bronze Star as well. I will never, ever refer to her as a war hero. I'd follow her into battle anyday, anytime. I'd lay my life down for her. But I would never use the term to describe her, John McCain, Colin Powell, Audie Murphy, or any other veteran who has been awarded any medal for valorious actions. It is not an appropriate term in my book.
    I guess the safest thing to say here is that you and I both agree to disagree.

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    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamewell45 View Post
    I guess the safest thing to say here is that you and I both agree to disagree.
    You may say so. I don't.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    You may say so. I don't.
    In that case, thank you for agreeing with me.

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