1. #26
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    ajpettis3 that is freakin cool...i have never thought of that...i like it...

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    Where's the control when using a Halligan? In the operators hands! I've busted a bunch of glass with the pick end of a Halligan,you DON'T need a roundhouse swing to do it,just a little power tap in the corner.Bothers NOTHING except the glass. That's so basic a skill I can't imagine why anyone would question it. I've got most of the glass tools in my pocket,but I'll use whatever I can get my hands on first.If it's the halligan,it's glass away. Just KISS. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 01-24-2009 at 03:24 PM.

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    Guys i fully agree that the Halligan tool has many uses, i was mainly refering to the earlier post where it was stated to take a wide grip and use a short swing !! that is what didnt sound so good to me.

    And i like the idea you mentioned ( ajpettis3 ) i am always looking for new ways to improvise with equipment.

    A spanner in the works with that idea, what if the vehicle has undeployed door mounted airbags? could be a problem.

    Rescue101, with all respect, yes it is a basic skill but if you already have the Glass tools in your pocket then why not use them as that is what they are designed for, surely grabbing the first thing you can is not always the best way, right tool for the right job in a controlled and casualty centred approach.

    Dont shoot me down, i agree that there is always a good altervative use for equipment, if i had the choice, center punch or halligan i would always go for the punch, no risk and easy to use.

    stay safe all
    Last edited by jonnycutter; 01-25-2009 at 09:13 AM.

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    Jonny,Ever see my pockets? If the "magic"glass tool is buried in the bottom of the pocket and I HAPPEN to have the halligan in my hands which on a MVA or vehicle fire is likely then I'll be using the Halligan rather than go pocket digging. It (properly applied)is NOT dangerous and highly effective.If you choose to use a spring punch or other tool,you'll get no objection from me.When you WILL get an objection will be if you spend valuable time digging for a tool when you have a perfectly good glass remover sitting there unused.
    For what it's worth I've been working around vehicles since I could walk(over half a century)and cutting them apart for over thirty five. An expert? Not really but there are hard and easy ways to do a lot of jobs.A Halligan in my opinion is a "must have" tool on ANY extrication or vehicle fire.And yes,breaking glass with a Halligan is one of our basic skills practiced by every one of our staff.Can also be used to start the process on lexan windows although a good 'cip saw works best for removal. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 01-25-2009 at 08:06 PM.

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    jonnycutter... I don't think anyone is here to bash you. Everyone has just had different experiences with different tools and i respect whatever you and your dept. chooses to do. On my dept. we luckily have a lot of training opportunities and a lot of good guys on the job that have experimented with different tactics. I picked up the halligan skill from my Capt (J. Jasperson) who has put in countless hours on trying to improve what he does best. Like i said, most people are on here because we all do the same thing and we are all are always looking to learn. Stay safe and if you ever want to talk tactics just let me know.

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    I have had some bad experience with this,

    http://www.howellrescue.com/toolpage...ow_punches.htm We had something similar to this, it worked allright untill the spring got caught somewhere and got deformed. So we decided to buy a new different one:

    http://www.allhandsfire.com/page/AHF/PROD/EMI-1076 we currently have one like this, and we had an instance where were we had a car and I was the one to crawl into the back seat and check the patients. We tried the window punch at the back door window, but the window wouldn't break, it just made small dents in the window. Perhaps it might work better on another car window, but I don't like taking chances.
    I had been foreseeing enough to bring a small axe and using the pike at the back of it, I broke the window and tore of the rubber around the edges in the same breath.

    I'd prefeer a glass hammer with saw, such as the holmatro glass master. I have tried one like it and it was good, but we currently don't have one in our inventory.

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    i use this---> http://galls.com/style.html?assort=g...og&style=FE334 <--works like a champ...just carry it in my gear pocket...has several more uses too...

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    Does anyone else dis-agree with the use of glass masters?

    I personally don't like them because of the glass dust and swinging a tool into the patient compartment.

    Whenever possible, speaking of windshields, I prefer to leave the full windshield in place, and seperate it from the roof. Very clean, very controlled.

    In PA, the state requires them to be in inventory for the voluntary rescue service recognition program, but we won't use it.

    If we have to cut a windshield, we tape it and sawzall it. But we try to stay away from cutting them at all.

    As far as removing tempered glass, we use the standard spring loaded center punch. Its never let us down. So long as it isn't a cheap "Harbor Freight" type.

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    The "sawzall" (a reciprocating saw) makes as much dust as the GlassMaster and you still need to make a hole for it to start cutting from. In the time it takes to deploy it, you can pretty much have the job done with the GlassMaster and be using the reciprocating saw to start cutting A, B, and if needed C posts on the side where the hydraulics are not operating.

    A trick I learned somewhere a while back is to carry a can of shaving cream on your rig and have the interior medic spray a line of it where you intend to cut the glass. The foam will capture most (if not all) of the glass dust that would normally be inside the car. The operator of the tool outside of the car should also be wearing a dust mask as part of their PPE.

    If you are going to displace the roof, I prefer to cut the glass rather than force the windshield apart and let fate decide whether it falls on the dash, stays with the roof, or gets caught by the responders as it falls out halfway through the evolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northeast68 View Post
    Does anyone else dis-agree with the use of glass masters?

    I personally don't like them because of the glass dust and swinging a tool into the patient compartment.

    Whenever possible, speaking of windshields, I prefer to leave the full windshield in place, and seperate it from the roof. Very clean, very controlled.

    In PA, the state requires them to be in inventory for the voluntary rescue service recognition program, but we won't use it.

    If we have to cut a windshield, we tape it and sawzall it. But we try to stay away from cutting them at all.

    As far as removing tempered glass, we use the standard spring loaded center punch. Its never let us down. So long as it isn't a cheap "Harbor Freight" type.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    Quote Originally Posted by bum291 View Post
    I have had some bad experience with this,

    http://www.howellrescue.com/toolpage...ow_punches.htm We had something similar to this, it worked allright untill the spring got caught somewhere and got deformed.
    We just bought a Howell kit that has several tools in a bag that you take to the crash to get your operation started. In their version of the "GlassMaster" one of their pull-back spring window punches is stored in a handle. When you try to remove it, the spring gets deformed. Needless to say, I am a bit disappointed with this design flaw. Fortunately there is another one of these punches stored elsewhere in the bag....
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    chuck norris's roundhouse kick is by far the best.

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    Medic,this will be one area where we disagree.We ROUTINELY use a 'cip saw to remove glass and prefer it to the Glassmaster.Many,many ways to get the start point but often we'll cut the A and just continue across the windshield to the opposite A.In addition,on a "working"extrication there is no less than three 'cip saws in operation along with the HRTs.The shaving cream works well as does a couple strips of duct tape if you have time. Like any job,you hang around enough you'll find different methods or ways you can "filch"ideas to improve your existing ops.As a race track extricatior,I'm sure you have found this to be true over the years. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Medic,this will be one area where we disagree.We ROUTINELY use a 'cip saw to remove glass and prefer it to the Glassmaster.Many,many ways to get the start point but often we'll cut the A and just continue across the windshield to the opposite A.In addition,on a "working"extrication there is no less than three 'cip saws in operation along with the HRTs.The shaving cream works well as does a couple strips of duct tape if you have time. Like any job,you hang around enough you'll find different methods or ways you can "filch"ideas to improve your existing ops.As a race track extricatior,I'm sure you have found this to be true over the years. T.C.
    We don't have to agree to disagree... I like your methods since you have enough reciprocating saws to accomplish multiple tasks at the same time. My point was that I don't dislike the "GlassMaster" for the reasons you indicate. Since we have just one reciprocating saw on the department I am with, I would prefer to have it working on one side of the car, while the hydraulics were addressing the other and let a third person take care of the window glass while all of this is going on. In order to do this. we would need to consider using the GlassMaster, so I would prefer to have one in my "toolbox" rather than get rid of it.

    It's all good... we're all after the same goals!
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northeast68 View Post
    Does anyone else dis-agree with the use of glass masters?

    I personally don't like them because of the glass dust and swinging a tool into the patient compartment.

    Whenever possible, speaking of windshields, I prefer to leave the full windshield in place, and seperate it from the roof. Very clean, very controlled.

    In PA, the state requires them to be in inventory for the voluntary rescue service recognition program, but we won't use it.

    If we have to cut a windshield, we tape it and sawzall it. But we try to stay away from cutting them at all.

    As far as removing tempered glass, we use the standard spring loaded center punch. Its never let us down. So long as it isn't a cheap "Harbor Freight" type.
    I meant using it to break the side and rear windows, but, yes agree with it being a good idea to remove the windscreen as a whole if easily done.

    ps. This is the forum at it's best, I got few good tricks to try out, perhaps some of the might be of good use out in "real life", thanks!
    Last edited by bum291; 02-08-2009 at 06:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northeast68 View Post
    Does anyone else dis-agree with the use of glass masters?

    I personally don't like them because of the glass dust and swinging a tool into the patient compartment.

    Whenever possible, speaking of windshields, I prefer to leave the full windshield in place, and seperate it from the roof. Very clean, very controlled.

    In PA, the state requires them to be in inventory for the voluntary rescue service recognition program, but we won't use it.

    If we have to cut a windshield, we tape it and sawzall it. But we try to stay away from cutting them at all.

    As far as removing tempered glass, we use the standard spring loaded center punch. Its never let us down. So long as it isn't a cheap "Harbor Freight" type.

    A glass master is a very efficient tool to have in an extrication from the stand point of breaking glass and cutting a windshield. When you say swinging the tool into the patient compartment, you must pay attention on where you are swinging. You are right that if this tool is swung in the wrong place, your pt is not going to be to happy with you. When you are breaking glass with a glass master, you must make sure you are breaking in a lower corner and swinging from behind a post. If you swing from behind a post, the post will stop your tool from entering the pt compartment. And as far as the tape goes, that is just one extra step before you get your pt out. In a serious accident time is a big factor. If your department is quick at doing it and thats what works for you guys then keep at it, but i would think that it is faster to throw a blanket over your pt and not worry about the dust. If you could let me know how you guys tape the windshield and cut that would be cool.

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