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Thread: 09 AFG ideas

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not2L84U2 View Post
    On the generator, if the village hall, which is 50' from the fire station, is the community shelter can we price a generator that would be big enough to cover both?

    What if we do have a TIC? The one we have is about 8 years old and we have had issues with it not always working and is showing signs of wear and tear.

    Training will pay for instructor led that leads to state certification, but what will they pay for? Materials and cost of instructors?

    Gotcha on the foam. I think that would be a lesser priority for us. Honestly we used less than 5 gallons of foam this year.

    Once again, Kurt & Brian have the info that is needed!
    Per the PG:

    For FY 2008, eligible uses of training funds include, but are not limited to, tuition, exam and course fees, certification and/or re-certification expenses, purchase of training curricula, training equipment (including training trailers and other mobile simulators), training props, and training services (such as instructors).
    So unless there is a change for 2009 (I doubt it based on conversation with our FPS) it can be done.


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not2L84U2 View Post
    Used RIT as an argument for TIC in another departments app a few years ago. We already have a RIT pack. Could we use it for the arguement of having the second camera? One for the first in crew and one for RIT?
    Yes. You want to have dedicated equipment for RIT so that would be a good argument for FF safety; one for fire attack & a second for RIT. If you do RIT for MA departments this also guarantees that 1 TIC would remain in the community. Same argument that I used to get 2 RIT packs for the department.

  3. #23
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    Default Wadded Panties?

    I hate to be the origin of a panty wadding by the gurus, as I have personally received help from them all,either directly (email and phone) or by indirectly by years of reading this forum (or Chief grants etc).

    Many had good counterpoints that they took time to do it without training (or with) and others should be able to do the same. I suppose I get really aggravated seeing area departments from one end of the spectrum to the other. One department keeps applying even though they have equipment they cannot even carry on their trucks. Other departments have applied little if any. The later needs help. Lack of enthusiasm or ability by the officers is preventing them from even having a chance. As an officer for 20+ years it sickens me to see those folks doing without when others they see have it all. It ain't Kurts or Brians, or my fault, but it is a problem.

    I don't know the fix, but do know there is a gap. I am thankful that I have been successful several times with these grants and my members have all their basic needs satisfied. And yes, it has been with help from many hours of reading these posts and help from the gurus.

    And one last panty wadding. I still maintain that if a department has all their NEEDS met, they should not be working to get more tax dollars. This is a good program, but there are folks who abuse it, simply because they can, whether it is for bragging rights, or they feel they are entitled. Examples like the one I mentioned where folks have more than they need will be a nail in the coffin of this program.

  4. #24
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    There will always be exceptions to any setting, and if someone has equipment they can't put on trucks then either they really need it and communicated that, or they lied to get the stuff. Both situations happen.

    And you don't have to tell me about 'progressive officer ranks' that don't even bother applying, for lack of desire to change, or inaccurate perceptions. I deal with that every year like clockwork. Sometimes it's the other powers that be (mayors, council, etc) that won't let the department apply also, hence the reason I've polished up the negotiation skills. They come in handy in places other than grant apps. But just like horses and water, I can drop all the potential grant apps I can find in front of people and many still won't apply. Goes back to the old adage of helping those that help themselves, if they don't want the new and better stuff then so be it. Just like I teach in the workshops someone, somewhere needs what you need only has more statistical need and better arguments, so if they at least answer the questions they might beat you out. But if they don't apply or wing the app, then you will beat them out for the dough. Neither situation is anyone's fault, it's on each applicant to do their homework and not be afraid to put in the work. All properly designed and written apps get funded eventually, persistance is the key.

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    I'll weigh-in on the neeed for attending the seminars and/or for learning the nuts and bolts of application writing.

    I did a week of Peer Review in Emmitsburgh last May. All I worked on was apparatus, and I didn't review any from my own state. That said, there were applications that I reviewed that I worked HARD to find them a couple more points, but because theye were so poorly written, the points couldn't be awarded. Applications with FANTASTIC need statements, but with no budget info. Applications for that new tanker which failed to discuss the impact on firefighter safety in day-to-day operations, but instead talked about the improved ISO rating (ISO is NOT an AFG goal!). And the list went on and on... There were also those applications that were clearly written to replace the six year old truck which had a full ashtray and needed an oil change, but they DID meet all of the requirements of the application process and discuss need, budget, affect, and benefit/cost. So how do you take points away from them? (Except in the "need" category?)

    There are obviosly departments in need that have not taken advantage of what could rightfully be "their" money. But I can't write their application for them, and I couldn't add to their weak narrative in Emmitsburgh! They really need to be a little less penny-wise and dollar foolish, and get the application writing training that they really need! In the mean-time departments with lesser need (I didn't say no need), but better applications will continue to get the awards.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

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    Brian, not to be repetetive, but I sincerely appreciate the time you and others (i.e. Kurt)put into these forums. I highly suspect I would not have been successful on any apps without the help here-in.

    And I didn't really mean to ruffle feathers (except for those getting equipment and don't need it) but was simply venting my frustation seeing firefighters in the field having needs not met. And yes, it is generally the fault of their leadership whether local or otherwise.

    Keep up the good work.

    To change the subject..., anyone getting 1199's for SAFER?

  7. #27
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    All I can say is thank goodness for these grants! For way, way to many years the "old bunch" was more concerned about who was bringing chips and dip to the card game instead of keeping things in shape or even replacing equipment when it wore out or broke. Luckily they're gone. With our small budget it has taken the help of 3 and now possibly a 4th grant just to get the mess they left us with fixed. Yes, it would of been nice to try and fix it all with one grant but that wasn't possible. We all want to go home after the call. These grants have greatly improved our chances of that. Have we been able to eliminate all the issues/problems we face? No, but at least now we have a lot fewer of them to contend with. We can now actually be a benefit to our mutual aid area too. That was "unthinkable" just a few years ago. Yes, I agree there are those that abuse it. Yes, there are still the "old bunch" that don't want to waste their time with it. That too is sad.
    Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now

    "Just remember. No matter where you go. There you are!"

  8. #28
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    firedude801, just a question here but have you thought about assisting them with their apps or are they just too reluctant to accept help when help is offered? From the way you are tlaking about them it sounds to me like a plain ole case of either procrastination on their part or simply nobody there has enough interest to do a little work.
    Kurt Bradley
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    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

  9. #29
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    801, no feathers ruffled here. Discussions like this are how things improve. To an extent it is our job to get those other folks to apply, especially if they are mutual aid. We're not safe if they're not safe on our firegrounds, so lend a hand sometimes. I have a long list of departments that were 0-fer-ever then we cleaned up a few things and got them funded. Some didn't want me to try but I can be pretty convincing to at least give it a run. Now many don't want to stop, or want lists of everything they can go after. Free money is more addicting than crack, and that's a good thing.

    And SAFER 1199As went out Friday. Looks like only hiring, didn't see anyone else post about finding any after I found 4 (all hiring) so I don't think we had any R&Rs.

  10. #30
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    Default Spreading the word

    Spread the word to a couple neighboring depts. last year who weren't even aware of the grants. I know at least one got a grant for PPE and other equip. Talked to a guy doing gas line work @ our station the other day who was from a small dept not far from us. They got comp dj. Offered to look at their app to see if anything jumps out. Being aware of that dept., they should have at least made it to peer. I think it was for PPE and SCBA. They may take me up on it. Also told him about reading these forums. They have never been on here.(Imagine that ) It's no fun if your neighbors can't get help too

    "Just remember. No matter where you go. There you are!"

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post

    I did a week of Peer Review in Emmitsburgh last May. All I worked on was apparatus, and I didn't review any from my own state. That said, there were applications that I reviewed that I worked HARD to find them a couple more points, but because theye were so poorly written, the points couldn't be awarded. Applications with FANTASTIC need statements, but with no budget info. Applications for that new tanker which failed to discuss the impact on firefighter safety in day-to-day operations, but instead talked about the improved ISO rating (ISO is NOT an AFG goal!). And the list went on and on... There were also those applications that were clearly written to replace the six year old truck which had a full ashtray and needed an oil change, but they DID meet all of the requirements of the application process and discuss need, budget, affect, and benefit/cost. So how do you take points away from them? (Except in the "need" category?)

    There are obviosly departments in need that have not taken advantage of what could rightfully be "their" money. But I can't write their application for them, and I couldn't add to their weak narrative in Emmitsburgh! They really need to be a little less penny-wise and dollar foolish, and get the application writing training that they really need! In the mean-time departments with lesser need (I didn't say no need), but better applications will continue to get the awards.

    Amen Brother, I went to Emmitsburg the first 4 yrs. The Writting has definetly got better but there are still a lot of Departments that do not have a clue. You know they need the funding but the narrative just won't let you justify it.

  12. #32
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    Kurt. In answer to the offering help, question, yes.

    I will say this in their defense.., there is not such thing as a few hours here and there for a volly Chief or any Chief for that matter. Not to get on a soap box, but these days, if the Chief is not good at sharing the load, he'll collapse. And, unfortunatley, the worst thing is that a good fireground Chief is a type 'A' personality and that is the worst thing when it comes to sharing the work load.

    I suppose the issue is just like the starving children in Somalia. Not much any of us can do individually....,

    My Lord. That just made me even sadder.

    SAVE US OBAMA!!

  13. #33
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    Default NFPA 1901...2009 Edition

    A neighboring department which I help with writing grants for is looking at applying for a new engine. My question is "what are some of the new standards that the 2009 edition add to apparatuses" and "what is the approximate % of increase to the cost compared to pre 2009 apparatuses". Thanks in advance to any and all who answer.

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