1. #1
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    Default Speaking of getting rid of old stuff...

    No not old firefighters old equipment!! ha Seriously what are the guildlines when you get stuff like SCBA, hose, or turnowuts on AFG. What can I do with the old stuff? Am I allowed to make any money on the stuff? I know the turnouts are over 10 years old but could I donate them to a dept that has worse stuff? The SCBA work they are just ancient and less that what I want for my dept...not to mention there are 2 different kinds mixed together. Any ideas? I hate keeping stuff we got replaced and not helping someone else

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    I would take an ethical approach. If you told FEMA the equipment was not good enough for your dept. to use, why would it be in an acceptable condition to sell? What are the legalities of selling PPE, do you put yourself into a position for a lawsuit if you sell it and it fails? Are you willing to test each piece to assure it is within specification before you put it on the market? Knowingly selling untested equipment sounds a bit irresponsible.
    Are you protected by donating the equipment? You, basically, where given new equipment, why try to sell the gear you are replacing?
    My dept. is currently in the same position, we are putting together an inventory of SCBA bottles, determining those that have current hydro test and those that dont, getting estimate to retest those out of service, then sending that cost to Twp. Board to show them that it will cost far more to get these into a saleable condition than we will ever recover. Same for several hundred feet of old hose dating back to the 40's!
    I would make a call to one of the Help Our Own organizations and let them do their thing. These organizations typically will provide documentation that transfers liability to their group when they take possession of equipment and they make sure it goes to those that can use it.
    Now to convince your Municipal leadership that the old equipment isnt worth the liability for the few bucks you "might" get by selling it, they always look back to find the invoices and assume its worth what they paid for it. If they wont agree to donation, just take the oldest, beat up equipment to there homes and tell them, "this is the gear we will use for any calls to your home, the new stuff will be used elsewhere"

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    I highly encourage anyone that receives a grant to donate what they can to others in need. I have a long list of departments that would love 10 year old bunker gear since theirs is 20 or more. In areas with few or no structure calls in the last year they aren't beating the computer so it's tough to get them new stuff compared to 5-10 calls a year or more. But they'd be happy for anything. I don't know about HOO doing anything productive anymore, last I looked at them there was a power struggle and donations out to departments stopped. Hopefully things are fixed with them, and if not word of mouth can find someone needing the stuff.

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    I look at it like Brian. If you can pay it forward, do it and do it often.

    I don't know about your state, but in Missouri the state fire marshal's office has a program where they help find a home for old, usable equipment. There's also some guys out there like Brian and LVFD that help coordinate that kind of thing.

    If nothing else, you may have a local Explorer program that doesn't need nice, fancy gear and SCBA to do their training and such. We gave our old gear and Scott 2.2's to our Explorers and they're happy as clams.

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    Amen! If anyone wants to donate older gear to needy fire departments (And I mention no specific states, I ain't going there again) we can certainly help you get the gear into needy hands.

    I still have a department not too far away using demand only SCBA.

    One has to realize, that even with AFG, some departments can't even afford the 5%......

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    Hijacked from another forum

    "If there isn't clear evidence that the replaced apparatus is being taken COMPLETELY out of firefighting service, then you aren't supposed to get the award! If the Federal government is giving you a bushel basket of money to replace something that's unsafe and out-dated, then it would be unsafe and out-dated elsewhere! During the Peer Review process, if the applicant indicates that they intend to keep the unsafe apparatus, or gift it elsewhere, or to sell it to another department, they loose points... You can sell it to a farm, you can sell it to a construction company, you can junk it for the scrap value, but it has to come out of firefighting service.

    There are stories of the early AFG years where the program paid to replace the same piece of unsafe and outdated apparatus several years in a row, as it got passed around. Don't know if that's true, or just AFG Urban Legend!"

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    And to a lot of the country, we can even provide at no cost to any department, free pickup and delivery!

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    Question

    So is there an official word on this from DHS? Can you sell or donate SCBA that were replaced with an AFG grant?
    "The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor." - Vince Lombardi

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    They have no opinion on equipment, you can do what you want with it. Unofficially, many say give it to someone else if it's better than what they have. May not be ideal but it's a step up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZO1026 View Post
    Hijacked from another forum

    "If there isn't clear evidence that the replaced apparatus is being taken COMPLETELY out of firefighting service, then you aren't supposed to get the award! If the Federal government is giving you a bushel basket of money to replace something that's unsafe and out-dated, then it would be unsafe and out-dated elsewhere! During the Peer Review process, if the applicant indicates that they intend to keep the unsafe apparatus, or gift it elsewhere, or to sell it to another department, they loose points... You can sell it to a farm, you can sell it to a construction company, you can junk it for the scrap value, but it has to come out of firefighting service.

    There are stories of the early AFG years where the program paid to replace the same piece of unsafe and outdated apparatus several years in a row, as it got passed around. Don't know if that's true, or just AFG Urban Legend!"
    That was my quote in answer to a post speifically regarding apparatus, and not equipment purchased under AFG. AFG has been silent on the "used equipment" issue. (at least so far)
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

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    Default turnouts

    I would like to donate some turnouts pending the city approval. We cant afford to pay to clean or ship it so if someone wants it and the city says ok them its fair game. Contact me if anyone knows a legit organization that would take it
    jsharumATcox.net

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    The last equipment grant we donated it to a department in the south of the state and they were grateful. Sometimes the littlest things make a big difference.
    Now we are pretty poor, and we have had donations to us, so we know what it's like to see something and try to do whatever we can ourselves.

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    BC and LVFD are right on the money in my opinion. Pay it forward anytime you can. We have been very fortunate in we have received three equipment grants and a fire prevention grant from AFG, and we also got a grant for a new mini pumper from another grant. All of the equipment we have replaced has been donated to other departments that have been less fortunate. Most of the gear (coat and Pants were not worth passing on, but the helmets and boots were still usable. We gave the 1978 mini we replaced to another department who uses it for rescue/extrication because they could not get their pumper into some of the spots. I don't think helping our own is around anymore, but they were nice when they were up and going. The best way is to just ask around. There are enough of us here on the forums to get the stuff to departments that truly need it. Kurt and Brian travel enough and meet enough departments, that I am sure they would know or have contacts with departments that would love to have it. I have 13 departments in my county, and of those 13 there are 7 with budgets of 10K or less. We always try to help our neighbors, and then pass it along to the next needy department, and we always encourage those who we give too keep what they need and help out another if they can.

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    Default Disposal of your old stuff

    If you have equipment that still functions but is not serviceable in the United States you can donate it to a department out side the US. I know some counties in South America have nothing. Contact your state National Guard, they should have a state partnership coordinator who can facilitate shipment.
    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post

    I still have a department not too far away using demand only SCBA.
    We have some old Scott 2.2's without integrated pass just collecting dust since our 2004 award. If you know somebody that could use them, can you send me a private message. All I ever get are people trying to make money off them. We could use the storage space back for different cr*p!
    NCVFC17

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    NCFC17 - i can not seem to send u an email. Please email me at jad-ff733@charter.net - i have a station that most likey coud them. i am a fellow NJ person transplanted to to SC. thanks

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    We donated our old packs for county wide training. The packs are there to use for any department. We keep them at an in house made training center and at a county wide training tower. They are great for doing RIT training and building collapse training. No need to be worrying about damaging your new packs for a training exercise.

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    Cool AV2000 Kevlar

    We are still looking for (8) used Kevlar head harnesses for Scott AV2000 masks. NY state distributed brand new surplus AV2000 masks with hazmat head harness's to our county a couple years after 911. Can't seem to find or buy any used Kevlar for a decent price. There has got to be a pile of surplus, broken and scratched masks somewhere as AFG has given out millions for SCBA. Will buy or swap brand new Hazmat harnesses and/or pay shipping. I've been watching Ebay and every other website and can't seem to find a lot of these for a decent price.

    We have 500' of good used 4" LDH that we can't give away due to the shipping cost. Someone please take it and get it out of our station.

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    Guys,

    We were contacted yesterday by a department that has only two SCBA. They are in an adjoining county to us.

    They need at least 8. Nothing fancy except positive pressure.

    I am headed to PA on Friday, coming back through NY, OH, IN, IL, and MO. Can anyone help them out? I can pickup and deliver.

    They also need as desperate needs helmets and nomex hoods.

    They, like many other departments need hose, 1 1/2, 1 1/3, 2 1/2, LDH, etc, nozzles, pretty much anything. We will be bringing back a 77 engine to another department, so we have plenty of carrying capacity.

    Send me a message if you can help, I will give information as to the name of the department etc via email.

    Thanks guys!

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    Blake, email me when you get a chance. Gots lots of SCBA for departments in all those states in 2007 and 2008 so far, might be able to get some of the packs they replaced for you. And maybe some other stuff too. Would have emailed you but using webmail right now and don't have that address book synched with the laptop.

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    We are in NJ, but I can definitely help. We have some older Scott wire frame 2.2 without integrated pass devices I would be happy to donate. All I need is a letter in return for the file. Probably have about 8-10 or so. I can likely give them some bottles with them too. Send me an e-mail at captain@ncvfc.org
    NCVFC17

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    Oh we understand Brian, you are suffering through the nice warm weather in PR, but at least you are still able to talk. Everytime I go down there, I loose my voice, and the ability to walk from that red gasoline stuff they give you. It was a balmy 5 degrees here this morning, but I guess its better than being in North Dakota. The above comments just go to prove we are all here for the same reason, helping others and keeping our brothers and sisters safe.

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    Actually the worst stuff I had was a few years back for the Xmas trip the one neighbor had brought back a bottle from the Dominican Republic. I think it evaporated before it hit the back of the throat. 190 proof. Good thing I wasn't smoking a cigar when I coughed I would have killed people. Kept it down but still not sure that was the better option. Been sticking to the lighter proof ever since...

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    Default old equipment

    If you have older equipment and want to donate and sell the equipment to departments that need it, you can do so. BUT if you get an AFG to replace the equipment/apparatus and you declared it unsafe in your grant, you CAN NOT give it or sell it to ANY other emergency department. As per AFG, if it is not safe for your department, it is not safe for another department. Our department has received several AFG grants and when we were audited, they asked what we did with the UNSAFE apparatus' and equipment that we replaced with AFG funding. Matter-of-fact, they even said that the watch Purplewave and Craigslist to monitor departments selling old apparatus'. There was a department that got caught selling the "unsafe" apparatus that they had received AFG funding to replace on Purplewave and had to pay back the funding in which they received.

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