View Poll Results: Engine/Truck Cul de Sac Response

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  • Yes, Engine Company enters the block/dead end first

    7 13.21%
  • Yes, Ladder Company enters the block/dead end first

    13 24.53%
  • Yes, First arriving is the first to enter

    21 39.62%
  • No, It is at the discretion of the first arriving officer to decide/announce

    12 22.64%
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  1. #1
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    Default Engine, Truck Cul de Sac Response

    For those with engines and ladder companies responding from the same quarters or relatively close to each other...

    When responding to a structure fire where the address is on a cul de sac or dead end street, does your department have any position regarding who will enter the block first?
    "If you put the fire out right in the first place, you won't have to jump out the window."
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    Alexandria, VA F.D.

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  2. #2
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    First to arrive enters first and leaves room for the others.

    Can't imagine having a truck/engine sitting on the side of the road waiting for someone else to show up.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    First to arrive enters first and leaves room for the others.

    Can't imagine having a truck/engine sitting on the side of the road waiting for someone else to show up.

    That was my first thought too.

    Not to nit-pick the OP, but coming from the same quarters is different than "relatively close to each other". If we respond together, the Ladder goes first and would go right into the cul-de-sac/dead end. If an Engine is first-in, they're going to go right in and go to work. They'll leave room for the Ladder Co to spot appropriately, but they won't wait for them.

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    Depends on the hydrant situation. If there are no hydrants on the block and its a significant length (fare enough that hand stretching is out of the question), and the ladder is right behind the engine, i would let the truck company in first....and lay in behind them.

    If there are hydrants, pull in past the building, leave room for the truck, and go to work.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    First to arrive enters first and leaves room for the others.

    Can't imagine having a truck/engine sitting on the side of the road waiting for someone else to show up.

    The truck company would probably be at most 10 seconds behind the engine, its not uncommon to pull over and let the truck through.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    The truck company would probably be at most 10 seconds behind the engine, its not uncommon to pull over and let the truck through.

    eh, not in a lot of places

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    Since most structures on cul-de-sacs are single family dwellings, and likely only one or two stories, the engine is the priority as far as I'm concerned. I want the water as close as possible to the fire. No sense in having a 100' tower ladder sitting in front of a single story house, that's why we have GROUND LADDERS. Even if it's a rescue situation, it's a hell of a lot faster to throw a ground ladder to a second story window than it is to setup an aerial.

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    "Since most structures on cul-de-sacs are single family dwellings, and likely only one or two stories, the engine is the priority as far as I'm concerned. I want the water as close as possible to the fire. No sense in having a 100' tower ladder sitting in front of a single story house, that's why we have GROUND LADDERS. Even if it's a rescue situation, it's a hell of a lot faster to throw a ground ladder to a second story window than it is to setup an aerial."

    To add to what the last guy said...yea its all well and dandy to have the engine as close to the fire as posible...But what if its already burning through the roof and your only gonna have 10 min offencive attack then are gonna have to go defencive. Wouldnt you want the aerial up and flowing...not trying to be a smart a** but just saying. You engine guys need to think about where your spoting your apparatus so that the truck has room to flow. Expecially with the light weight construction you have a short time to get a knock down or you have to play defence. Make sure your defence is able to function before you call for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    The truck company would probably be at most 10 seconds behind the engine, its not uncommon to pull over and let the truck through.
    In your area. Not in mine.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    eh, not in a lot of places
    no sh*t. Wasnt the question about MY specific area?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    In your area. Not in mine.
    I know. The point was that it CAN happen. Your post made it seem that it was unthinkable for it to happen anywhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chauffer6 View Post
    Since most structures on cul-de-sacs are single family dwellings, and likely only one or two stories, the engine is the priority as far as I'm concerned. I want the water as close as possible to the fire. No sense in having a 100' tower ladder sitting in front of a single story house, that's why we have GROUND LADDERS. Even if it's a rescue situation, it's a hell of a lot faster to throw a ground ladder to a second story window than it is to setup an aerial.

    In Rockland, my answer would be much different. Im talking about at work, in an area of the Bx in which you are familiar, where the situation I described happened a few years ago in a 3 story converted PD. Stop causing trouble.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    I know. The point was that it CAN happen. Your post made it seem that it was unthinkable for it to happen anywhere.
    Sorry bout that. It's fairly unthinkable in my area.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    In Rockland, my answer would be much different. Im talking about at work, in an area of the Bx in which you are familiar, where the situation I described happened a few years ago in a 3 story converted PD. Stop causing trouble.
    Well, your answer in Rockland would be to put the 110' QUINT in front of the house, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Sorry bout that. It's fairly unthinkable in my area.
    At home it is for me too. I was only thinking in terms of where I work, where it is a fairly regular occurrence.

    If the truck would be delayed, and there was no hydrant, I would lay in and go to work. Let the dumb truck guys find their way to the front of the building.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chauffer6 View Post
    Well, your answer in Rockland would be to put the 110' QUINT in front of the house, right?
    We dont need the truck. The engine would put out the fire. This isnt New Square.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    We dont need the truck. The engine would put out the fire. This isnt New Square.
    Touché my friend...touché.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    no sh*t. Wasnt the question about MY specific area?

    I didn't know you and Bones shared the same first due area. Interesting, because your comment seemed to be in response to his. Seemed like a blanket statement, its good to preface such comments with "in my area" or something of the like

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    Back to the original question. We would very rarely have the truck get to the scene immediately behind the engine. Most of the time it's several minutes behind. In this case, 1st engine to the house, most likely lay out from the end of the cul-de-sac and leave room for the truck. Depending on the size of the cul-de-sac, other units would stage on the main road, and only enter the cul-de-sac when needed by command. The problem that we have most of the time is filling the cul-de-sac with engines and not being able to get a truck in, or get units out as we release them.

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    If responding from the same station let the truck in first. Not because they would have better position but to cut all the whining and crying they would do if you did not let them have the front (have to take care of the Divas.)

    If I had to set up and the truck was coming behind I would circle the Cul de Sac and leave my butt towards the fire. That's where my lines are and makes an easier stretch. It also makes it easier for the second due to reverse out from our front intake. That should leave enough room for the truck to get in close to the structure. All of this is assuming the structure is at the end of the Cul de Sac.

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    We don't have truck companies in my area, but if we did I would take the engine up the drive way and let the truck have the street in front of the house. If the drive way is short and the engine could become an exposure, park in the neighbor's drive and stretch from there.
    Last edited by TNFF319; 11-18-2008 at 10:35 PM.
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    How do you keep a truck co. busy for hours?

    Send them into the cul de sac and tell them to park it in the corner.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    this is one of the many reasons why it is best to get the biggest aerial you can. If you aren't as close as you'd like to be, having the 110ft vs. the 75 ft may give you the extra length you need to be able to use the stick and ground ladders vs. just the ground ladders.

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    pre planning your district or first due area usually works to solve these kinds of problems.

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    If the engine company is first in, then the engine should set up in the center of the cul-de-sac leaving room for the truck to pull up in front of the structure. If the house is centered in the middle of the cul-de-sac, then the engine should set up either to the right or left side of the cul-de-sac, leaving the middle open for the truck.

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