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    Default Big Three CEOs Flew Private Jets to Plead for Public Funds

    The CEO greed just never ceases to amaze me...BOU



    Auto Industry Close to Bankruptcy But They Get Pricey Perk
    By BRIAN ROSS and JOSEPH RHEE
    November 19, 2008


    The CEOs of the big three automakers flew to the nation's capital yesterday in private luxurious jets to make their case to Washington that the auto industry is running out of cash and needs $25 billion in taxpayer money to avoid bankruptcy.


    The CEOs of GM, Ford and Chrysler may have told Congress that they will likely go out of business without a bailout yet that has not stopped them from traveling in style, not even First Class is good enough.


    All three CEOs - Rick Wagoner of GM, Alan Mulally of Ford, and Robert Nardelli of Chrysler - exercised their perks Tuesday by flying in corporate jets to DC. Wagoner flew in GM's $36 million luxury aircraft to tell members of Congress that the company is burning through cash, asking for $10-12 billion for GM alone.


    "We want to continue the vital role we've played for Americans for the past 100 years, but we can't do it alone," Wagoner told the Senate Banking Committee.


    While Wagoner testified, his G4 private jet was parked at Dulles airport. It is just one of a fleet of luxury jets owned by GM that continues to ferry executives around the world despite the company's dire financial straits.


    "This is a slap in the face of taxpayers," said Tom Schatz, President of Citizens Against Government Waste. "To come to Washington on a corporate jet, and asking for a hand out is outrageous."


    Wagoner's private jet trip to Washington cost his ailing company an estimated $20,000 roundtrip. In comparison, seats on Northwest Airlines flight 2364 from Detroit to Washington were going online for $288 coach and $837 first class.


    After the hearing, Wagoner declined to answer questions about his travel.


    Ford CEO Mulally's corporate jet is a perk included for both he and his wife as part of his employment contract along with a $28 million salary last year. Mulally actually lives in Seattle, not Detroit. The company jet takes him home and back on weekends.



    Plants Closed, Company Jets Stay
    Mulally made his case Tuesday before the committee saying he's cut expenses, laid-off workers and closed 17 plants.


    "We have also reduced our work force by 51,000 employees in the past three years," Mulally said.


    Yet Ford continues to operate a fleet of eight private jets for its executives. Just Tuesday, one jet was taking Ford brass to Los Angeles, another on a trip to Nebraska, and of course Mulally needed to fly to Washington to testify. He did not address questions following the hearing.


    "Now's not the time to do that sort of thing," said John McElroy of the television program "Autoline Detroit."


    "Now's the time to be humble and show that you're sharing equally in the sacrifice," McElroy said.


    GM and Ford say that it is a corporate decision to have their CEOs fly on private jets and that is non-negotiable, even as the companies say they are running out of cash.


    Private jet travel is perhaps the greatest perk of all for CEOs, who say it allows them to travel more efficiently and safely, even in a recession.


    AIG, despite the $150 billion bailout, still operates a fleet of corporate jets. The company says it has put two out of its seven jets up for sale and is reviewing the use of others. Though there are no such plans by GM or Ford.


    "It appears that the senior management of the automakers simply don't get it," said Schatz.



    Copyright 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures

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    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 11-19-2008 at 02:33 PM.

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    That is not greed, that is good use of the CEO's time. The misconception of the use of business jets is unfortunatly deep in this country. If the CEO's had then flown to the Bahamas in those jets, there would be a problem. The Leadership of Congress have access to what is essentually private jets, only even better service. CEO's using these jets for business purposes makes a good news clip, but is a bogus issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace View Post
    That is not greed, that is good use of the CEO's time. The misconception of the use of business jets is unfortunatly deep in this country. If the CEO's had then flown to the Bahamas in those jets, there would be a problem. The Leadership of Congress have access to what is essentually private jets, only even better service. CEO's using these jets for business purposes makes a good news clip, but is a bogus issue.
    What was the cost of that flight compared to even a first class ticket on a commercial flight? Therein lies the problem: money management.

    That's not to say the leadership of our congress is exempt from the same. It seems anyone in a leadership role in either the gov't or the private sector needs a lesson on responsibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    What was the cost of that flight compared to even a first class ticket on a commercial flight? Therein lies the problem: money management.

    That's not to say the leadership of our congress is exempt from the same. It seems anyone in a leadership role in either the gov't or the private sector needs a lesson on responsibility.
    You need to consider time management. With guys with 20million plus salaries, you are paying a lot for every hour around $8K based on a 50 hour week. If he is going through airports with long security delays, and then flight delays, you can add three or more hours to travel time where he is not productive. That is $24K in potential waste. Private Jets do not exist in the numbers they do just because they are nice to have. They exist in the numbers they do for purely economical reasons, despite the fact that they might not be the PR way to fly.

    As for Congress, the leadership really should have these assets available due to the potential for crisis that they have to deal with, just like some of our expensive firefighting tools that we drive around that are rarely used, but really needed when they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace View Post
    You need to consider time management. With guys with 20million plus salaries, you are paying a lot for every hour around $8K based on a 50 hour week. If he is going through airports with long security delays, and then flight delays, you can add three or more hours to travel time where he is not productive. That is $24K in potential waste. Private Jets do not exist in the numbers they do just because they are nice to have. They exist in the numbers they do for purely economical reasons, despite the fact that they might not be the PR way to fly.

    As for Congress, the leadership really should have these assets available due to the potential for crisis that they have to deal with, just like some of our expensive firefighting tools that we drive around that are rarely used, but really needed when they are.
    Come on man! They aren't clocking in and out like the guys at the chicken plant. How could it be more profitable to leave the luxury airliner parked and take the public plane? The abuse of the corporate big wigs is prevalent. The AIG folks took a weekend retreat on our dime right after their first bailout. It was only a few hundred thousand though so I guess that's cheap too.
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    With technology such as it is today, they don't need to be in a boardroom, office, factory, or the like to get thier job done. They can do it anywhere, including a first class seat on a commercial air line.

    It is poor money management.

    As for thier time being so valuable, I ask you this, What do they really do that justifies such huge salaries? As thier companies fail, they succeed. That's just stupid. If you or I fail at our job, we get fired. This is not so in the corporate world. A CEO at a company the size of GM is not actually doing that much, he's like the lead singer of a band. He didn't write the song, he doesn't know how to play an intrument, and he can hardly read the contracts he signs with record companies and promoters, but he sure looks good while he performs.

    They don't need this much money to survive well beyond the means of the average person, so why do they get it? Perhaps if some of thier products weren't so expensive, more people could buy them and help get them out of the terrible perdiciment they are in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hefightsfire99 View Post
    Come on man! They aren't clocking in and out like the guys at the chicken plant. How could it be more profitable to leave the luxury airliner parked and take the public plane? The abuse of the corporate big wigs is prevalent. The AIG folks took a weekend retreat on our dime right after their first bailout. It was only a few hundred thousand though so I guess that's cheap too.
    You misconception of the facts is a sign of our failed network media news outlets and possibly the public school system.
    That first AIG retreat was not for the "big wigs" it was for the sales force. Again bad timing, but not bad business as it had been scheduled months in advanced and was probably mostly paid for in non-refundable deposits.

    The corporate planes are not parked for very long, that is the point. When you see it cost $20K for them to fly to DC round trip, that factors in the time that it did sit around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northeast68 View Post
    With technology such as it is today, they don't need to be in a boardroom, office, factory, or the like to get thier job done. They can do it anywhere, including a first class seat on a commercial air line.

    It is poor money management.

    As for thier time being so valuable, I ask you this, What do they really do that justifies such huge salaries? As thier companies fail, they succeed. That's just stupid. If you or I fail at our job, we get fired. This is not so in the corporate world. A CEO at a company the size of GM is not actually doing that much, he's like the lead singer of a band. He didn't write the song, he doesn't know how to play an intrument, and he can hardly read the contracts he signs with record companies and promoters, but he sure looks good while he performs.

    They don't need this much money to survive well beyond the means of the average person, so why do they get it? Perhaps if some of thier products weren't so expensive, more people could buy them and help get them out of the terrible perdiciment they are in.
    They are over paid, I totally agree. And their golden parachutes are crimminal, but as long as they are paid as they are, it is best that their time is used effeciently. Due to regulations against most communications on commercial air, it is NOT possible for them to work very well, even in first class. And it is impossible for them to work while in the security lines. So I will stand by my feeling that of all the BS that could have been brought up in that hearing, the private jet one was the tops. The only fact that this verbal dual proved was that Rep. Gary Ackerman continues to be good at getting good news clips.

    A business can often fly on auto-pilot with a weak or non-engaged CEO, but it can not grow. These are smart go-getter types, they inharited the problems they are dealing with. I know from personal observation that Rick Wagoner is a hands on guy who works his tail off every waking moment. These guys are over-paid, but they are not worthless either.
    Last edited by DennisTheMenace; 11-19-2008 at 04:24 PM.
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    The problem is not that they arrived in private jets. The problem is that many are going to work at $31 and some change per hour in the jobs bank to sit and wait for something to do. The problem is that health insurance for retirees is covered 100% by the companies. The UAW and their unrealistic labor contracts got this ball rolling where emphasis had to be placed on sale of the higher priced vehicles to make any kind of profit as opposed to pushing more inexpensive but more efficient vehicles. The Congress should compel the Auto Companies to file Chapter 11, get out from under these contracts, streamline their operations and then if assistance is still necessary float them a loan. Don't throw good money into a system that will continue to bleed red ink with no light at the end of this tunnel
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    Default The entire industry is flawed

    There are problems in the auto industry that have brought them to this position.

    Certainly, it's poor judgement to maintain this fleet of jets and to use them when you are asking US, the taxpayer to help you avoid bankruptcy.

    As for their valuable time... wanna bet they slept on the flights? I wouldn't take that bet.

    Yes, the unions also have some ownership in this problem.

    For those reasons, and because I think that the only way to put this disaster back together, I think we need to let them go bankrupt.

    They won't disappear, they will restructure and come back. They will come back leaner and more prepared for the future.

    To simply give them a loan will only delay this. It's inevitable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTKROUSH View Post
    The problem is not that they arrived in private jets. The problem is that many are going to work at $31 and some change per hour in the jobs bank to sit and wait for something to do. The problem is that health insurance for retirees is covered 100% by the companies. The UAW and their unrealistic labor contracts got this ball rolling where emphasis had to be placed on sale of the higher priced vehicles to make any kind of profit as opposed to pushing more inexpensive but more efficient vehicles. The Congress should compel the Auto Companies to file Chapter 11, get out from under these contracts, streamline their operations and then if assistance is still necessary float them a loan. Don't throw good money into a system that will continue to bleed red ink with no light at the end of this tunnel
    Well put, I still hate the jets though.

    Believe me, I've done my best to help, I've got a pair of those GM gas guzzlers and I wouldn't trade them for anything, I love my vehicles and I don't complain at the pump. I have to imagine that if the automakers were healthier there would be a lot more opportunity to buy interesting vehicles at reasonable prices. I think his would return them to a level of stability. Maybe that's a fairy tale though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTKROUSH View Post
    The problem is not that they arrived in private jets. The problem is that many are going to work at $31 and some change per hour in the jobs bank to sit and wait for something to do. The problem is that health insurance for retirees is covered 100% by the companies. The UAW and their unrealistic labor contracts got this ball rolling where emphasis had to be placed on sale of the higher priced vehicles to make any kind of profit as opposed to pushing more inexpensive but more efficient vehicles. The Congress should compel the Auto Companies to file Chapter 11, get out from under these contracts, streamline their operations and then if assistance is still necessary float them a loan. Don't throw good money into a system that will continue to bleed red ink with no light at the end of this tunnel
    So the execs should show leadership and take massive paycuts.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    So the execs should show leadership and take massive paycuts.
    Yup. Not gonna happen though.

    Not sure if it is true, but the radio station I listened to on the way home was saying that one of the Ford or GM big wigs left Boeing, works for them for $28,000,000 per year and gets the corporate jet to fly him home to Seattle every weekend.

    I say f@ck 'em. Make a good product and I'll buy it. Until then, you screwed me on 1 Chrysler, 1 Ford, and 3 GMs. I'll my 4Runner and Subaru (maybe trade it in on a Tacoma) and IF you survive your own financial ineptitude and actually make a decent product I MIGHT move back to you. Until then, keep making shyte and you get none of my money.
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    Yeah that's it. I rode the short bus so I don't understand all these deep thoughts Mr. Jack Handy. The fat cats aren't at all wasteful. In fact now I feel sorry for them. We should give them the $25 billion plus a bonus for their suffering.

    What I do know is this. Corporate America is fundamentally flawed and deeply corrupt.

    Non refundable deposits. What a load of crap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Not sure if it is true, but the radio station I listened to on the way home was saying that one of the Ford or GM big wigs left Boeing, works for them for $28,000,000 per year and gets the corporate jet to fly him home to Seattle every weekend.
    That's the part that's just insane. $28,000,000 would pay 700 people $40,000 per year, and I doubt most of the people that got laid off even make $40k per year.

    I'm sure $28 million is a gross income figure... but c'mon. I'd feel like I was balling out of control if I made $280k per year.

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    "Ford CEO Mulally's corporate jet is a perk included for both he and his wife as part of his employment contract along with a $28 million salary last year. Mulally actually lives in Seattle, not Detroit. The company jet takes him home and back on weekends."
    "...When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you." Isaiah 43:2

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    How about they git rid of the robots and give jobs back to humans.

    And stop out sourcing to other countries. Then maybe we would have more people that could afford to by these products.

    Robots are great but they dont spend money to keep the economy going.

    And yes the CEOs are over paid

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    Quote Originally Posted by redneck52 View Post
    How about they git rid of the robots and give jobs back to humans.

    And stop out sourcing to other countries. Then maybe we would have more people that could afford to by these products.

    Robots are great but they dont spend money to keep the economy going.

    And yes the CEOs are over paid

    Yes CEO's are overpaid.

    Robots do not spend money. They also do not make the same errors that human workers do. The Detroit plants automated to do a more efficient job at a lower operating cost. The problem came in with the farce that is the jobs bank. You can't fire anyone, but you must pay them about $31.80 / hour to play cards, smoke cigarettes and wait to be called to the plant floor.

    Where is the logic in that? Cut out the outrageous executive pay, Get rid of the jobs bank, if retiree insurance is that important make the union foot the bill, and if there's anything else there that is totally stupid make it go away. Then and only then allow these idiots to the Government tit to suck for a bit.
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    Nothing succeeds like excess.

    One can't help but be amused at how quickly the titans of industry become socialists.
    Last edited by scfire86; 11-20-2008 at 03:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    One can't help but be amused at how quickly the titans of industry become socialists.
    Never said they were socialists, but when you b!tch about oil companies, Lowes, Home Depot folks making a bazillion dollars on one hand (who actually MAKE money) and you get theheads of The Big Three getting $25M a year plu virtually unlimited use of a $40M private jet I just say it's stupid. Especially when you lose 9 Billion dollars in 3 months.

    It is a collective issue with the management of the Big Three, UAW, and poor products, with an outdated business model that they refuse to change with the times.

    So this has happened before. Lots of former car manufacturers exist no longer. Companies cannot last forever.
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    Exclamation Ok...................

    I'd be happy to take the job as C.E.O. at any of America's Fortune 500 Companies, IF I could work under the following conditions:

    Salary capped @ $250,000.00/yr. for a 40-50 hour work week, couple of weeks vacation, and a Company Car and a Gas Credit Card.

    Travel beyond the distance that I want to drive would be on AMTRAK where unlimited Cell Phone and Laptop use is OK.

    I would need to be reimbursed for reasonable Travel Expenses, AMTRAK, Motel 6, Cracker Barrel, ETC.

    I would spend 25% of my time out in the operation, looking, asking questions, trying to find a better way, with the support of the folks that are doing the work.

    I would be proud of my operation and it's people, and support the communities where we work.

    I would use, and be the Number 1 Salesman for our product. (Unless it is Mary Kay Cosmetics or Victoria's Secret stores )

    Employees would be co-workers, not something to avoid.

    There's more, but you get the idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    I'd be happy to take the job as C.E.O. at any of America's Fortune 500 Companies, IF I could work under the following conditions:



    I would use, and be the Number 1 Salesman for our product. (Unless it is Mary Kay Cosmetics or Victoria's Secret stores )

    Aw, Harve, I'm sure Ms. Harve would back you in showing off the newest diamond-studded push-up or the latest lipstick/nailpolish combo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Never said they were socialists....Especially when you lose 9 Billion dollars in 3 months.
    They're asking for assistance from the taxpayer to overcome their poor decisions. This is the same group that champions the "free market" and non interference of government. Now they're asking that same government to help them out of the jam they put themselves. Taking from the many to give to the few.

    That's socialism. They're not alone.

    Conservatism's current intellectual chaos reverberated in the Republican ticket's end-of-campaign crescendo of surreal warnings that big government verily, "socialism" would impend were Democrats elected. John McCain and Sarah Palin experienced this epiphany when Barack Obama told a Toledo plumber that he would "spread the wealth around."

    America can't have that, exclaimed the Republican ticket while Republicans whose prescription drug entitlement is the largest expansion of the welfare state since President Lyndon Johnson's Great Society gave birth to Medicare in 1965; a majority of whom in Congress supported a lavish farm bill at a time of record profits for the less than 2 percent of the American people-cum-corporations who farm and their administration were partially nationalizing the banking system.
    Last edited by scfire86; 11-20-2008 at 10:49 AM.
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    I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this, however it is worth a read

    Where Would General Motors Be Without the United Automobile Workers Union?

    Interesting thing is they compare GM to the Toyota plants in America, which are non-union.

    Not only are the CEOs greedy, but it goes all the way down to the shop floor.

    As for the robots, they work 24X7, don't call in sick to go fishing, don't get holidays or holiday pay, don't take vacations, and work for a whole lot less per hour than any person. And oh yea, they don't make as many mistakes.

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